== Meeting information ==
 * #xubuntu-devel Meeting, 26 Aug at 10:05 — 11:14 UTC
 * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-08-26-10.05.log.html]]



== Meeting summary ==

=== gksu/do versus pkexec ===
The discussion about "gksu/do versus pkexec" started at 10:09.

  * we now have pkexec policy files for thunar and mousepad
  * ''ACTION:'' slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec
  * ''ACTION:'' bluesabre will send a call for translations for all our projects to the mailinglist

=== Open Action Items ===
The discussion about "Open Action Items" started at 10:18.

  * ''ACTION:'' marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
  * DONE: bluesabre to put list of xubuntu packageset packages on wiki (somebody beat me to it by adding the link)
  * DONE: bluesabre to upload new xubuntu-default-settings
  * DONE: bluesabre to enable clutter in parole, set as default in xubuntu-default-settings
  * ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Maintained_packages 
  * DONE: skellat to mail list to see if anyone wishes to identify specific low-hanging fruit tasks for the Global Jam

=== Team Updates ===
The discussion about "Team Updates" started at 10:22.

  * ochosi did a new release of the icon theme that adds support for the new power-manager amongst others
  * new versions of catfish, lightdm-gtk-greeter, xfce4-power-manager, xfce4-settings, light-locker-settings have landed
  * ochosi talked to ubuntu devs about gtk3.12 affecting our default applications like evince. they will all remain in their gtk3.10 versions for 14.10, so we have nothing to worry about with headerbars and client-side decorations
  * outside of that, headerbars and CSD work well enough with xubuntu... with compositor on they are fine, with it off, they have an extra xfwm titlebar on top
  * apt-offline is fixed in utopic, courtesy of Unit193

=== Announcements ===
The discussion about "Announcements" started at 10:30.

  * Beta1 freeze is in effect
  * Beta1 release on Thursday
  * Feature freeze is also in effect
  * Following freezes: UI freeze Sept 11, Doc string freeze Sept 18 ...
  * Beta 1 is Thursday, we'll need iso testing, see elfy's mail: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-August/010387.html

=== Discussion ===
The discussion about "Discussion" started at 10:37.

 * '''Incentives to get more people to help with QA and testing''' (10:38)
  * ''LINK:'' https://trello.com/c/835Pk6MH 
  * ''ACTION:'' elfy shall set up a page for the QA incentive programme, collecting proposals/ideas for rewards and a general outline of it
 * '''Jenkins for image testing''' (10:49)
 * '''Trello and launchpad blueprints (again)''' (10:53)
 * '''UI Updates''' (10:59)
  * lightdm-gtk-greeter no longer supports proper centering, wondering if you guys think we should keep the "kinda-centered" layout, or consider others



== Vote results ==




== Action items, by person ==

 * bluesabre
  * bluesabre will send a call for translations for all our projects to the mailinglist
 * knome
  * slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec
 * **UNASSIGNED**
  * marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
  * elfy shall set up a page for the QA incentive programme, collecting proposals/ideas for rewards and a general outline of it



== Done items ==

 * (none)



== People present (lines said) ==

 * ochosi (139)
 * bluesabre (65)
 * knome (36)
 * slickymasterWork (26)
 * meetingology (12)
 * skellat (8)
 * xubutrello (1)
 * ubottu (1)



== Full Log ==


 10:05 <ochosi> #startmeeting

 10:05 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 26 10:05:42 2014 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 10:05 <meetingology> 

 10:05 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick

 10:05 <ochosi> hey !team

 10:06 <ochosi> !team | hey everyone, meeting time

 10:06 <ubottu> hey everyone, meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193

 10:06 <bluesabre> hey ochosi

 10:06 <skellat> o/

 10:06 <ochosi> just as a disclaimer, i might get a phone-call during the meeting that i'll have to take

 10:06 <ochosi> so don't worry if i'm suddenly mute :)

 10:07 <ochosi> (i didn't die in front of my computer in that case)

 10:07 <bluesabre> as far as we'll know

 10:07 <ochosi> :]

 10:08 <ochosi> soo, who's here apart from bluesabre and skellat?

 10:08 <slickymasterWork> o/

 10:09 <ochosi> right, so let's get on with it

 10:09 <ochosi> #topic gksu/do versus pkexec

 10:09 <ochosi> we still have that on our agenda

 10:09 <ochosi> bluesabre: wanna #info something on that?

 10:09 <bluesabre> #info we now have pkexec policy files for thunar and mousepad

 10:10 <bluesabre> they, among other things, need translations https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings

 10:10 <ochosi> what's the doc-status on this?

 10:10 <slickymasterWork> on what ochosi? pkexec?

 10:11 <ochosi> yup

 10:11 <ochosi> bluesabre: so a call for translations to the ML maybe?

 10:11 <slickymasterWork> well, knome and I haven't started working on that

 10:11 <ochosi> but you have it on the radar

 10:11 <slickymasterWork> but we're planning to do it shortly

 10:12 <slickymasterWork> yeaps

 10:12 <ochosi> #info slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec

 10:12 <ochosi> #undo

 10:12 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO

 10:12 <ochosi> #action slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec

 10:12 * meetingology slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec

 10:12 <bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, need to do a call for all of our projects

 10:12 <bluesabre> though, I think there was one already recently

 10:12 <ochosi> bluesabre: mind doing that (since you seem to have the overview)?

 10:13 <bluesabre> sure thing

 10:13 <slickymasterWork> bluesabre: have upload the new strings for menulibre?

 10:13 <slickymasterWork> + you

 10:13 <ochosi> #action bluesabre will send a call for translations for all our projects to the mailinglist

 10:13 * meetingology bluesabre will send a call for translations for all our projects to the mailinglist

 10:13 <bluesabre> slickymasterWork, not yet, to do shortly

 10:13 <slickymasterWork> ok

 10:13 <bluesabre> was going to do it sunday with other translation releases, got derailed by gtk-theme-config

 10:13 <bluesabre> :)

 10:13 <ochosi> :)

 10:14 <ochosi> so, anything else on pkexec?

 10:14 <bluesabre> We have thunar and mousepad policies, need anything else?

 10:14 <knome> slickymasterWork, looks like i'll have some time today

 10:14 <knome> bluesabre, tell me, why does mousepad need it?

 10:14 <ochosi> bluesabre: well we've asked around (also on the ML), and that's what ppl came up with

 10:14 <slickymasterWork> great knome. I'll ready whenever you are

 10:14 <knome> because it can save files to system locations?

 10:14 <slickymasterWork> + be

 10:15 <ochosi> knome: ppl might want an editor for config files? (e.g. lightdm config)

 10:15 <bluesabre> knome: dunno, I did what the others told me :)

 10:15 <bluesabre> ^

 10:15 <ochosi> or logind policies or whatever

 10:15 <knome> ochosi, right, so wouldn't any app that saves files potentially need a policy, like transmission

 10:15 <bluesabre> edit != save

 10:15 <knome> what about abiword/gnumeric?

 10:16 <knome> aha

 10:16 <skellat> knome: In general you would not be using transmission to land a file straight to /var/apt/cache

 10:16 <ochosi> i'd do this on an on-demand basis, tbh

 10:16 <skellat> For example

 10:16 <slickymasterWork> bluesabre, what about for xfce4-terminal?

 10:16 <bluesabre> anyway, I see this going down the wrong trail :)

 10:16 <knome> i'm just asking

 10:16 <knome> argument accepted.

 10:16 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: the terminal really doesn't need one

 10:16 <knome> so we're covering the "sensible" use cases that might need policies

 10:16 <ochosi> you can execute super-user commands in a terminal anyway

 10:17 <knome> skellat, thank you sherlock ;)

 10:17 <bluesabre> haha

 10:17 <slickymasterWork> ochosi, yes, I agree with you. was just asking because it was included in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Pkexec

 10:17 <skellat> knome: If memory serves, there actually is an apt transport package for using bittorrent if you really wanted to for some reason

 10:17 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: yeah, that was a place set up for suggestions (incl. some from the community)

 10:18 <slickymasterWork> ok, got it

 10:18 <knome> skellat, sure. and some people might want to download torrents to system directories, like sharing an ISO with all the users but not let them touch it.

 10:18 <ochosi> so we took thunar and mousepad cause they made some sense, but not the terminal

 10:18 <ochosi> ok, let's get back on the topic

 10:18 <ochosi> anything else on pkexec?

 10:18 <bluesabre> not from me

 10:18 <knome> nope

 10:18 <skellat> Nope

 10:18 <ochosi> ok, moving along

 10:18 <ochosi> #topic Open Action Items

 10:19 <ochosi> from last time there are a few open action items

 10:19 <ochosi> knome: any clue whether pleia2 started with the marketing support for the xfce bounty programme?

 10:19 <ochosi> or shall we carry that along to the next meeting?

 10:19 <knome> i imagine not.

 10:19 <knome> let's carry it on

 10:19 <ochosi> #action marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media

 10:19 * meetingology marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media

 10:19 <ochosi> bluesabre: what about your action items?

 10:20 <bluesabre> #info DONE: bluesabre to put list of xubuntu packageset packages on wiki (somebody beat me to it by adding the link)

 10:20 <bluesabre> #info DONE: bluesabre to upload new xubuntu-default-settings

 10:21 <bluesabre> #info DONE: bluesabre to enable clutter in parole, set as default in xubuntu-default-settings

 10:21 <ochosi> oh, where is that page?

 10:21 <knome> bluesabre, #done too :P

 10:21 <bluesabre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Maintained_packages

 10:21 <ochosi> huhu

 10:21 <knome> i want and added that link :)

 10:21 <skellat> #info DONE: skellat to mail list to see if anyone wishes to identify specific low-hanging fruit tasks for the Global Jam

 10:21 <bluesabre> 06:05 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick

 10:21 <knome> bluesabre, sorry for taking your item..

 10:22 <knome> bluesabre, that's broken. lderan!

 10:22 <bluesabre> knome: somebody had to do them, and I was dragging my feet ;)

 10:22 <ochosi> knome: i guess we already carried your item forward...

 10:22 <knome> ochosi, yep, that's fine.

 10:22 <ochosi> #topic Team Updates

 10:23 <ochosi> #info ochosi did a new release of the icon theme that adds support for the new power-manager amongst others

 10:24 <bluesabre> #info new versions of catfish, lightdm-gtk-greeter, xfce4-power-settings, xfce4-settings, light-locker-settings have landed

 10:24 <ochosi> \o/

 10:24 <ochosi> nice work bluesabre

 10:24 <ochosi> (even though i'm not sure what xfce4-power-settings is, must be a new project ;))

 10:24 <bluesabre> whatever that thing is, obviously not my project ;)

 10:25 <bluesabre> #undo

 10:25 <bluesabre> er not

 10:25 <bluesabre> ;)

 10:25 <ochosi> #undo

 10:25 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO

 10:25 <ochosi> bluesabre: now feel free to go again ;)

 10:25 <ochosi> #chair bluesabre

 10:25 <meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre ochosi

 10:25 <bluesabre> #info new versions of catfish, lightdm-gtk-greeter, xfce4-power-manager, xfce4-settings, light-locker-settings have landed

 10:26 <ochosi> #info ochosi talked to ubuntu devs about gtk3.12 affecting our default applications like evince. they will all remain in their gtk3.10 versions for 14.10, so we have nothing to worry about with headerbars and client-side decorations

 10:26 <ochosi> if anyone spots problems with that ^ though, be sure to let me know

 10:27 <bluesabre> #info outside of that, headerbars and CSD work well enough with xubuntu... with compositor on they are fine, with it off, they have an extra xfwm titlebar on top

 10:27 * bluesabre did some testing on the side

 10:28 <ochosi> cool

 10:28 <ochosi> saw the screenshots, it's okay

 10:28 <ochosi> even if it isn't pretyt

 10:28 <ochosi> pretty

 10:28 <bluesabre> yup, not broken = yay

 10:28 <ochosi> :D

 10:29 <ochosi> any other updates..?

 10:29 <bluesabre> oh yeah

 10:29 <bluesabre> #info apt-offline is fixed in utopic, courtesy of Unit193

 10:29 <ochosi> nice

 10:30 <ochosi> ok, moving along...

 10:30 <ochosi> #topic Announcements

 10:30 <ochosi> #info Beta1 freeze is in effect

 10:31 <knome> #info Beta1 releas on Thursday

 10:31 <knome> bah

 10:31 <knome> releas releas!

 10:31 <ochosi> #undo

 10:31 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO

 10:31 <ochosi> #chair knome

 10:31 <meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre knome ochosi

 10:31 <knome> #info Beta1 release on Thursday

 10:31 <bluesabre> #info Feature freeze is also in effect

 10:31 <ochosi> i guess we're in bugfix mode then

 10:32 <knome> #info Following freezes: UI freeze Sept 11, Doc string freeze Sept 18 ...

 10:32 <ochosi> are there any blockers any of you have been seeing? (those of you who have been testing utopic i mean)

 10:32 <bluesabre> so far, we're pretty clear... things have stabilized a lot in the past week or so

 10:33 <ochosi> good to hear

 10:33 <ochosi> i'm actually just running updates on my utopic VM now

 10:33 <knome> if i have any time and motivation, i'll try to set up my old laptop for testing

 10:33 <ochosi> ok, any other announcements?

 10:33 <ochosi> knome: that'd be nice!

 10:33 <knome> otherwise i guess i'll just have to do VM testing at some point (again)

 10:34 * slickymasterWork will continue with VM testing

 10:34 <bluesabre> yeah

 10:35 <bluesabre> #info Beta 1 is Thursday, we'll need iso testing, see elfy's mail: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-August/010387.html

 10:35 <ochosi> a bit offtopic, but i have to admit i really enjoy the way whiskermenu works in utopic. with all the settings dialogs there, it's quite the universal launcher

 10:35 <ochosi> yeah, i'll try to do a test this week

 10:35 <ochosi> would be great if others could join in too

 10:36 <ochosi> more announcements?

 10:36 <knome> i'll try to squeeze some testing in, but tbh, schedule looks meh

 10:36 <bluesabre> yeah, was going to do one this morning, beta1 is not on the list yet it seems

 10:36 <slickymasterWork> I'll do some

 10:37 <bluesabre> great :D

 10:37 <ochosi> yup, elfy will be happy to see those flowing in :)

 10:37 <ochosi> #topic Discussion

 10:38 <ochosi> #subtopic Incentives to get more people to help with QA and testing

 10:38 <ochosi> i've discussed this with elfy and knome in this channel previously

 10:38 <ochosi> but i thought we might want to consider throwing some of the leftover resources we have at people who help with testing

 10:39 <ochosi> elfy has had a bit of a hard time this cycle finding and motivating folks to run the tests

 10:39 <ochosi> which is probably partially due to this being LTS+1, partially due to testing not being the most exciting task in the world

 10:39 <ochosi> (and maybe there are other factors i'm not thinking of now)

 10:39 <knome> summer?

 10:39 <ochosi> be that as it may, i think testing and QA is really important for us and we've had a great run in 14.04 with it

 10:39 <bluesabre> partially due to virtualbox seeming to fail on start

 10:40 <ochosi> we should try to maintain that somehow and try to get new folks involved in that department

 10:40 <ochosi> so one idea was to set up a sort of "incentive programme" where e.g. the "tester of the month" gets a xubuntu-sticker in the mail

 10:40 <ochosi> and the "tester of the cycle" gets a t-shirt

 10:40 <ochosi> just as examples

 10:41 <bluesabre> I think that'd be cool

 10:41 <ochosi> i'd like to hear some opinions on that from you guys

 10:41 <ochosi> (fwiw, i see a beneficial side-effect in this, we might be able to attract more people to contributing. testing is a good first step of getting familiar with xubuntu and the procedures around it)

 10:42 <ochosi> slickymasterWork, skellat: opinions on ^ ?

 10:43 <ochosi> knome: btw, how does that work with the stickers now, can we just order a single one on behalf of somebody else, i.e. get it mailed directly to someone's house?

 10:43 <bluesabre> the stickers from unixstickers are pretty nice

 10:44 <slickymasterWork> well, I believe that there are people testing, thing is that most of the people don't report their tests

 10:44 <knome> ochosi, you'll have to ask pleia2 who set it all up

 10:44 <ochosi> is what pleia2 set up unixstickers?

 10:44 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: right, so we might need more incentive to get people to report their tests then i guess

 10:44 <slickymasterWork> but the incentive program seems a good idea

 10:45 <bluesabre> yeah, there are definitely people testing, got lots of feedback when I broke shimmer-themes ;)

 10:45 <knome> to me, it doesn't seem to have any difference if we get completely new testers, or those who just don't report, to actually report tests

 10:45 <ochosi> +1

 10:45 <slickymasterWork> yes, the only way they would get rewarded would be measured but the number of reported tests

 10:46 <bluesabre> yup

 10:46 <skellat> I agree with knome.  Reporting is the key.

 10:46 <ochosi> ok, i suggest we let elfy come up with some ideas and vote on it in the next meeting?

 10:46 <slickymasterWork> wfm

 10:47 <ochosi> (we might also have to review those options in terms of how much work it actually is to get a sticker sent to someone's house every month)

 10:47 * slickymasterWork is aiming for the t-shirt :P

 10:48 <bluesabre> on a slightly related note, just wondering if there was any progress on this:

 10:48 <bluesabre> xubutrello: card 22 link

 10:48 <xubutrello> Couldn't find any card with id: 22. Aborting.

 10:48 <bluesabre> that never works for me

 10:48 <bluesabre> https://trello.com/c/835Pk6MH

 10:48 <ochosi> #action elfy shall set up a page for the QA incentive programme, collecting proposals/ideas for rewards and a general outline of it

 10:48 * meetingology elfy shall set up a page for the QA incentive programme, collecting proposals/ideas for rewards and a general outline of it

 10:48 <knome> maybe team members should be not allowed to win :P

 10:49 <ochosi> awwwwh :)

 10:49 <slickymasterWork> I want one with xub icon surfing knome

 10:49 <ochosi> we can discuss that once elfy has set up that page i guess

 10:49 <knome> well, it doesn't motivate new contributors..

 10:49 <ochosi> ok, let's carry on

 10:49 <ochosi> #subtopic Jenkins for image testing

 10:50 <ochosi> since bluesabre just brought it up, any idea what that idea was all about? :)

 10:50 <skellat> Jenkins is a "continuous integration" system but that's all I know about it

 10:51 <ochosi> i've seen jenkins in action for xfce

 10:51 <ochosi> and it seems quite good in terms of catching build-time errors

 10:51 <ochosi> not sure what else it can do

 10:53 <ochosi> alright, one last topic from my side...

 10:53 <ochosi> #subtopic Trello and launchpad blueprints (again)

 10:54 <ochosi> while elfy has synced the two, i really think that for the next cycle we should decide on which one we want to carry on with

 10:54 <ochosi> using both is tedious and even more annoying than using launchpad during 14.04 was

 10:54 <ochosi> and i appreciate that knome did put a lot of effort into getting the blueprint system running

 10:55 <ochosi> so yeah, it's probably too early now, but i'd like us to have this discussion again towards the end of the cycle

 10:56 <ochosi> and hear how team members felt it went

 10:56 <bluesabre> sounds good to me

 10:57 <ochosi> i've personally disliked launchpad for its slowness, but the integration of the bugs and branches etc is quite good

 10:58 <ochosi> maybe it can be improved somehow

 10:58 <ochosi> alrighty, from my side, that's it

 10:58 <ochosi> any other topics for discussion?

 10:58 <bluesabre> yeah

 10:59 <ochosi> go ahead :)

 10:59 <bluesabre> #subtopic UI Updates

 11:00 <bluesabre> #info lightdm-gtk-greeter no longer supports proper centering, wondering if you guys think we should keep the "kinda-centered" layout, or consider others

 11:00 <bluesabre> examples, http://imgur.com/a/aSj6W#0

 11:01 <bluesabre> and not sure if this is info-worthy, but do we want to stick with the desktop icon sizes, or adjust? http://imgur.com/tsLjypk

 11:01 <ochosi> ah right

 11:01 <ochosi> yeah, thanks for bringing that up again

 11:01 <bluesabre> this all comes from xubuntu-default-settings, so changes are quick and easy, but wanted to discuss before UIF

 11:02 * slickymasterWork likes the power on right option

 11:02 <ochosi> i'm leaning towards "clock, power on right" as long as the clock isn't really centered

 11:02 <slickymasterWork> I'm with you ochosi

 11:03 <slickymasterWork> also, IMO we would stick with the desktop icon sizes

 11:03 <knome> yep, that seems like the best one

 11:03 <ochosi> it's close to our default panel layout and "clock on right" somehow looks wrong

 11:03 <bluesabre> and with the icons, you can click the image to make it not tiny

 11:03 <slickymasterWork> yes

 11:04 <bluesabre> yeah, I agree with the clock, power on right

 11:04 <knome> re: desktop 48/64 is ymy favorite

 11:04 <ochosi> yeah, i somewhat agree with knome on that

 11:04 <knome> or could be that 32/64 was even better

 11:04 <knome> anything >64 on tooltip just looks way too huge

 11:04 <ochosi> also from a technical side, we have a lot of icons for 64px, but not so many for 96px yet

 11:04 <ochosi> so lotsa potential fuzziness

 11:05 <bluesabre> My complaint is that with 32, File Syst... is cut off, though I realize this probably happens a lot for other locales

 11:05 * slickymasterWork also prefers desktop 48/64

 11:06 <ochosi> bluesabre: so let's set the tooltip to 64px and see how that looks

 11:06 <bluesabre> k

 11:06 <ochosi> i don't mind bumping the size of the icons back to 48px

 11:06 <ochosi> (call, brb)

 11:12 <ochosi> sorry about that

 11:12 <ochosi> bluesabre: so if you don't mind let's start with only the tooltips and if we dislike the 32px then, we bump that too

 11:13 <ochosi> no need to discuss that in a meeting though

 11:13 <bluesabre> alrighty

 11:13 <ochosi> sidenote: i was also considering to make the top panel 26 instead of 24px

 11:13 <bluesabre> just good to get multiple inputs :)

 11:13 <bluesabre> yes please

 11:13 <ochosi> sure

 11:13 <bluesabre> :)

 11:13 <ochosi> only problem atm with that is that the power-manager icon doesn't support it yet

 11:13 <ochosi> will have to pull a few strings again

 11:14 <ochosi> anyway...

 11:14 <bluesabre> oh?

 11:14 <ochosi> wrapping it up

 11:14 <ochosi> thanks everyone for the meeting!

 11:14 <ochosi> #endmeeting



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