19:58:23 <AlanBell> #startmeeting
19:58:23 <meetingology> Meeting started Sat Feb 16 19:58:23 2013 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
19:58:23 <meetingology> 
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20:00:25 <candtalan> Hi AlanBell
20:00:27 <SuperEngineer> am I allowed to watch Dr Who at the same time?
20:01:07 <AlanBell> that should be compulsory!
20:01:19 <AlanBell> just going to announce the meeting in a few other places
20:03:25 <AlanBell> so hi everyone
20:03:58 <AlanBell> #topic global jam
20:04:27 * phillw is watching Raid on Rommell :)
20:04:28 <AlanBell> #topic global jam
20:04:44 <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
20:05:09 <AlanBell> there is a kind of global community sprint on Ubuntu related things coming up soon
20:05:22 <AlanBell> notionally on 1st - 3rd March 2013
20:05:34 <AlanBell> and we can join in with things being done in other countries
20:05:56 <AlanBell> however we have an opportunity on the 9th march to have a bit of a get together in London
20:06:19 <AlanBell> czajkowski is organising a freeform meet and talk and hack event at the Google campus then
20:06:38 <AlanBell> and has suggested we might like to have a bit of a meetup there around the global jam theme
20:06:49 <AlanBell> http://hackntalk.org/
20:07:01 <AlanBell> http://hackntalk.eventbrite.com/
20:08:35 <candtalan> I cannot make it on 9th, great regrets
20:10:11 <AlanBell> I will be there, hopefully some others can get along
20:10:19 * SuperEngineer dreams of a meetup in Cheltenham - wishing on a star etc
20:10:25 <AlanBell> we might do some remote stuff too, via hangouts or something
20:10:35 <AlanBell> there is also a possibility to do something in Coventry
20:10:50 <popey> ooh, remote would be great
20:11:24 <AlanBell> maybe we should go strong on the remote stuff then, have a definite plan for a hangout
20:11:43 <AlanBell> I can take a projector, camera and audio stuff for a group hangout
20:11:44 <phillw> hangout would be nice :)
20:13:12 <AlanBell> ok, will get that sorted
20:13:31 <SuperEngineer> +1
20:13:44 <AlanBell> I will see if Mez wants to do the same kind of thing in coventry and we can get a second group meeting there
20:14:25 <popey> i think making efforts to ensure we have all the bits in place for remote support is good
20:16:05 <candtalan> I have never used a google hangout, would be really good to get a practice session some time....... :-)
20:16:35 <AlanBell> great candtalan, probably good to get set up and try a few in advance, I am always happy to help test that
20:16:47 <candtalan> thanks!
20:16:57 <phillw> for the jams, quality / testing team have set up some information for them. I can be available remotely if any people have questions during the jam https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Testing#Testing_Descriptions
20:17:11 <AlanBell> interesting, thanks phillw
20:18:46 <AlanBell> any other ideas of things to do at this jam?
20:21:56 <popey> be good if we could get a windows 8 UEFI / Secure Boot machine to hand a file bugs against the installer if they don't do what they're supposed to
20:22:08 <popey> be good if it had a clean install of windows 8
20:22:22 <popey> but that would be hard to arrange unless somoene happened to be buying one
20:22:38 <candtalan> I hav ejust bought a new PC  from elpa tech  - no windows - only preloaded ubuntu
20:22:40 <AlanBell> hmm
20:22:42 <popey> would like to see one backed up with clonezilla to a USB3 HDD and then monkeyed with and then reset to test again
20:23:08 <candtalan> happy to make this pc avail for tests
20:23:24 <candtalan> ubuntu 32 bit 12.04 in currently.
20:23:36 <candtalan> uefi turned off.
20:23:49 <popey> i was thinking more the out of the box experience
20:23:57 <popey> where someone buys a Win8 Machine
20:24:32 <candtalan> options on mboard are uefi on, off, or dual uefi and bios. not tried any yet
20:25:39 <AlanBell> that would be interesting, I don't really want to buy one though!
20:25:49 <candtalan> Mine is a gigbyte  mboard, not  lowere end I would usually  get, look slike gigabyte have done a good item, but documentation is thin
20:26:07 <AlanBell> What I do have is a nexus 7 I would be interested in reflashing
20:26:16 <candtalan> anyone have win8  they could assist me with tests?
20:27:21 <AlanBell> dunno if that is the same, secure boot pre-installs of win8 are not going to be the same as installing it from media
20:27:22 <candtalan> I will be available  for any such stuff from mid march,  but not just now unfortunately
20:27:30 <AlanBell> because of recovery partitions and things like that
20:27:59 <AlanBell> popey: what I would like to test is a preinstalled Ubuntu secure boot laptop :)
20:28:04 <AlanBell> I would buy one of those to test
20:28:38 <candtalan> understood,  elpatech (small company ubuntu aware) may  poss be helpful?? his main business is windows of course
20:29:44 <candtalan> laptops will need a scatter gun approach - I bet  all manufacturers will do something different.... :-(
20:30:17 <candtalan> novatech are a local contact - AlanBell??
20:31:49 <AlanBell> yeah, novatech are cool with selling laptops free from operating systems, but they don't really know much about Linux
20:34:20 <candtalan> they know about installing win8 in a  national retail environment?
20:35:03 <candtalan> just lets ask them what their configuration is
20:35:16 <popey> thats not what I'm after
20:35:30 <popey> I'm after a machine which is sealed as a user would buy
20:35:37 <popey> a user we convince to install Ubuntu
20:35:52 <popey> I want to know how the machine reacts, what settings are and what bugs are apparent in ubuntu
20:36:22 <candtalan> by arrangement they would I think consent to hands on tests with a ubuntu, they have an 'official' usb stick (reading manager) for live session tests, or DID have
20:36:25 <constrictor> hello
20:36:39 <AlanBell> hi constrictor
20:37:26 <candtalan> Good luck, I have to go now. bye
20:37:34 <AlanBell> ok, thanks candtalan
20:39:08 <AlanBell> popey: presumably baloons and co have a budget for this kind of thing?
20:39:13 <AlanBell> balloons
20:39:32 <AlanBell> or does canonical only test for preinstalls?
20:39:45 <bigcalm_xoom> I take it that I've missed the party?
20:39:56 <AlanBell> bigcalm_xoom: not really :)
20:40:03 <AlanBell> thinking about global jam stuff
20:40:12 <AlanBell> 9th March
20:40:22 <Bodsda> evenin all :)
20:40:25 <AlanBell> via hangouts and in person in London and maybe coventry
20:40:26 <popey> AlanBell: dont think so
20:40:28 <AlanBell> hi Bodsda
20:40:56 <popey> i dont think we heavily test windows dual-boot installs internally
20:41:10 <AlanBell> how about internally purchased laptops and desktops?
20:41:18 <AlanBell> do they get purchased blank?
20:41:18 <popey> we dont do that
20:41:22 <popey> everyone buys their own machine
20:42:27 <Bodsda> company funded?
20:42:33 <popey> no
20:42:44 <Bodsda> ... you have to pay for your own work machine?
20:42:48 <popey> yes
20:43:00 <Bodsda> raspberry pi's for all then :)
20:43:11 <popey> heh
20:45:19 * AlanBell will also take a raspberry pi to the jam
20:45:40 <AlanBell> I wonder how much of Ubuntu will run on a pi model b with 512mb of ram
20:45:50 <SuperEngineer> but it's refreshing to know there's no money squandered [except on cakes perhaps?]
20:45:57 <AlanBell> if it were compiled for that processor somehow
20:47:31 <phillw> AlanBell: ubuntu did not release a kernel version for it, there is a debian one http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads
20:48:19 <AlanBell> yup, I am thinking more of the userspace stuff, like Unity
20:48:40 <popey> unity barely runs on a pandaboard, I'd not make any effort to get it on a pi
20:52:19 <SuperEngineer> Any chance of a Canonical rep being at jam using/showing Ubuntu phone demo perhaps?
20:52:45 * Bodsda takes hat off to the rasbmc team - awesome media center
20:53:28 <AlanBell> picking apart a phone build would be rather interesting, and finding out a bit more about the QML stuff would be cool
20:54:04 <AlanBell> we might be able to find someone to join remotely with one at that stage, it should be released next week
20:54:21 <SuperEngineer> cool
20:54:28 <AlanBell> the London office staff don't tend to do things in London at the weekend
20:54:40 <SuperEngineer> ;)
20:59:58 <popey> you shouldn't need to "pick apart" a phone build
21:00:03 <popey> the source will be released
21:00:14 <AlanBell> well find out what happens when it rotates for example
21:01:52 <AlanBell> I have all sorts of things I would like to understand about application switching, rotation, events, touch, accessibility etc
21:02:15 <SuperEngineer> didn't mean "pick apart" - just get an "insider's view" of as near to real life as poss at that stage
21:02:48 <SuperEngineer> a.k.a "the full monty"
21:03:11 <AlanBell> it is an interesting concept, I dunno if I want one, or whether it is an interesting development target
21:03:44 <AlanBell> dunno what the target audience for the phone is, will my customers be buying one or will my children be buying one?
21:03:58 <CyberJacob> evening folks
21:04:00 <AlanBell> will it only be released in countries I don't care about?
21:04:22 <SuperEngineer> ...the kids - just stick an "iphone" dymo label on it
21:04:37 <AlanBell> all questions that might be answerable in part at that stage
21:05:26 <AlanBell> I would kind of like to be interested in the phone, but they haven't yet explained why I should be :)
21:07:03 <AlanBell> are there any other events people would like to talk about after the global jam?
21:07:11 <Bodsda> Unless they come up with a unique selling point, it will either sell next to nothing or be an enthusiast only zone
21:07:13 <AlanBell> we have a launch of Raring in April
21:07:53 <AlanBell> Bodsda: yeah, I agree, I hope they do go for some radically different angle somehow, rather than competing directly against apple/android
21:08:36 <AlanBell> sneaking in for the original Blackberry market would be good (when it was for suits rather than hoodies)
21:08:44 * AlanBell is wearing a hoodie
21:09:21 <Bodsda> iOS and android have the market pretty much taken - the only thing unique that I've heard about is ubuntu for android - http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android
21:09:29 * Bodsda is wearing a cookie monster hoodie
21:10:31 <SuperEngineer> Bodsda: good on yaa!
21:10:57 <SuperEngineer> ..now go get us all some cookies
21:11:17 * Bodsda ate all the cookies in the cookie jar
21:12:00 <Bodsda> If I could just take a second to mention a free software issue...
21:12:25 <AlanBell> ok, so we have an assortment of things to talk about for the jam, hopefully including a bit of UEFI/Secure boot if we can find someone who still buys machines with Windows and hopefully a bit of a tinker/chat about the phone
21:12:37 <SuperEngineer> don't ask me how I got this train of thought but another topic at Jam could be the U-UK podcast!
21:13:12 <AlanBell> that will be back on air by then
21:13:17 <AlanBell> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/live/
21:14:12 <SuperEngineer> yup Wednesday etc, weekly etc [for which a 100 thanks]
21:14:31 <Bodsda> The python programming language is under attack, a UK company is trying to trademark 'Python' for all computer related technologies - The python software foundation is calling for assistance from EU based companies that use the programming language to help fight the court case with testimonials and other information that shows that 'Python' is almost always used to refer to the language; in the tech world
21:14:32 <SuperEngineer> ...but still good for a natter
21:14:34 * AlanBell wonders if there is another oggcamp
21:14:41 <Bodsda> more info here: http://pyfound.blogspot.de/2013/02/python-trademark-at-risk-in-europe-we.html
21:18:04 <thomasthetankeng> Hello :)
21:18:29 <AlanBell> peep peep
21:18:55 <AlanBell> yeah, important stuff Bodsda
21:19:16 <AlanBell> so, any ideas of stuff to do in April for the Raring Ringtail launch?
21:19:44 <SuperEngineer> Get popey to buy us all a drink?
21:20:00 <AlanBell> (apart from grow a silly beard for those who can . . . http://www.geekologie.com/2011/04/all-the-rage-ridiculous-monkeytail-beard.php )
21:20:32 <SuperEngineer> ...sorry - I just realised, possible things only
21:22:11 <BigRedS> I like the now-usual pub-then-pub-crawl, personally
21:22:12 <SuperEngineer> how about a vote page/hangout/whatever to say "I just installed 13.04"
21:22:29 <BigRedS> (in London)
21:22:50 <AlanBell> yeah, I think the London thing will be the standard pub based thing
21:23:00 <SuperEngineer> BigRedS: why London all the time?
21:23:09 <BigRedS> because it's better than everywhere else.
21:23:15 <AlanBell> it is equally inconvenient for everyone
21:23:17 <SuperEngineer> no comment
21:23:28 <popey> SuperEngineer: feel free to organise an event outside london
21:23:29 <BigRedS> Also, it's where canonical are, and they're, generally, always going to go out for a drink having released
21:23:53 <BigRedS> so it's almost guaranteed that something will happen at launch in London. I think there's normally afew around the uk aren't there?
21:24:05 <popey> no, there generally aren't
21:24:19 <popey> people moan that its in london, but pretty much nobody ever organises anything
21:24:21 <SuperEngineer> popey: oh, I will - we can do cake & beer in this county as well ;)
21:24:29 <popey> yay
21:24:43 <BigRedS> Oh. I thought Birmingham or Manchester normally did one. Maybe it happened once and I thought it was the norm
21:25:06 <AlanBell> not for a launch, there have been other events in Manchester like U^3
21:25:39 <BigRedS> ah. Well, that just reinforces my point about London being better than everywhere else
21:26:50 <SuperEngineer> careful BigRedS - you're beginning to give your location away!!!!
21:27:06 <AlanBell> "come to London, it is one of the least worst places" \o/
21:27:23 <BigRedS> haha, yeah basically
21:28:18 <AlanBell> looking further ahead, do we want to do a summer event?
21:28:32 <BigRedS> Is there talk of an oggcamp?
21:28:33 <AlanBell> geeknic, or perhaps the Bletchly park visit we previously talked about?
21:31:14 <BigRedS> I'd like to go to bletchley park on a day it's not raining. That'd be a nice change
21:32:52 <popey> +1
21:32:57 <SuperEngineer> BigRedS: you do realise Bletchley is in England, don't you?  No rain?
21:33:14 <AlanBell> in England and *not London*
21:33:33 * SuperEngineer chuckles
21:33:36 <popey> no oggcamp news
21:33:37 <CyberJacob> I think the rain rule applies to the UK in general
21:34:42 <SuperEngineer> Would it be inappropriate to remind all of the 300th edition of Linux Outlaws tomorrow - live in Liverpool?
21:35:02 <SuperEngineer> whoops, just did it
21:35:23 <BigRedS> Liverpool? That's not London either!
21:35:53 <SuperEngineer> it's not anywhere near me either - how selfish!
21:36:34 <SuperEngineer> [just because someone actually lives there!!!]
21:36:40 <AlanBell> bit of a drive for me too
21:37:33 <AlanBell> the other reason for stuff being in London is that as soon as you go outside of London, everyone on public transport has to get a train into London to go out again in the right direction
21:38:20 <AlanBell> http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/content/visit/findus/publictransport.rhtm
21:39:42 <AlanBell> http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/content/visit/group.rhtm
21:39:43 <SuperEngineer> AlanBell: isn't that what's called a "return ticket"
21:40:49 <SuperEngineer> http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/content/visit/sunnydaysonlygroup.rhtm - 404 error
21:41:50 <AlanBell> well you can do it on one ticket, but if you have to train in to waterloo, then tube to Euston then train to milton keynes, then train to bletchley then walk, it is a bit of a long day
21:42:00 <AlanBell> so I will take the car
21:43:10 <AlanBell> anyhow, I will find out more about bletchly and set up an eventy thing for it somewhere
21:43:22 <AlanBell> if we have a bunch of people up for it then we might be able to get a group rate
21:46:56 <AlanBell> oddly the group rates appear to be higher than the regular rates
21:47:41 <AlanBell> anyhow, lets try and sort out that for sometime in the summer when it is nice and sunny
21:48:35 <exobuzz> is nice and sunny (for people outside of the uk)
21:48:58 <CyberJacob> exobuzz: sarcasm doesn't work in IRC
21:51:30 <AlanBell> anything else anyone wants to raise or suggest as a future activity?
21:52:25 <BigRedS> cz<tab> has a thingy in London in a couple of weeks
21:52:40 <AlanBell> yeah, we discussed that earlier BigRedS :)
21:52:47 <BigRedS> oh
21:52:48 <AlanBell> going to do a global jam hangout from there
21:52:52 <BigRedS> oooh
21:53:08 <phillw> Bodsda: I have replied to the page, just awaiting it to be moderated.
21:54:05 <SuperEngineer> all cool here - all topics raised & covered
21:54:13 <popey> Bodsda: we'll be replying to the python problem
21:54:28 <SuperEngineer> [except moving London]
21:55:34 <Bodsda> Excellent, thanks guys - I just wish I was in a position to convince my work to help. Although I write a lot of automation scripts in python at work, a local government is unlikely to back a free software movement - especially on letterhead
21:57:11 <AlanBell> http://python.co.uk/ appears they are running debian
21:58:05 * Bodsda is resisting the urge to drop the companies IP's into anon circles and sit back and enjoy the LOIC shows
21:58:35 <AlanBell> well that isn't nice at all
21:58:58 <AlanBell> however it would appear to be reasonable to ask them support questions about python
21:59:10 <AlanBell> because it is a confusing use of the brand and all
21:59:17 <phillw> I must admit, that thought did cross my mind... But, well, should we go after some smart arsed company that is trying to steal a F/OSS name.
21:59:23 <BigRedS> that IP is owned by Python Software Foundation
21:59:36 <CyberJacob> Bodsda: I have a /22 at your disposal
21:59:38 <AlanBell> oh, maybe they made some progress then
22:00:16 <popey> lets not use ubuntu channels to discuss potentially illegal activity eh?
22:00:27 <Bodsda> BigRedS: http://www.nominet.org.uk/whois/lookup?query=python.co.uk
22:00:54 <Bodsda> It's a good thing this channels not logged eh? .... oh... wait
22:01:07 <BigRedS> Bodsda: do whois `dig +short python.co.uk`
22:01:22 <AlanBell> yes, this channel is logged, the meeting bot is running
22:01:31 <AlanBell> this is a rather unstructured meeting, but it is recording it
22:01:36 <BigRedS> haha
22:02:07 <CyberJacob> AlanBell: it it too late to /o for the list?
22:02:26 <AlanBell> to do what?
22:02:50 <BigRedS> divide by zero?
22:02:52 <CyberJacob> to get added to the list of people who attended the meeting
22:03:06 <CyberJacob> (or do we not do that any more, been a while...)
22:03:09 <AlanBell> oh, if you say anything at all it recognises you as attending
22:03:20 <popey> "anything"
22:03:42 <AlanBell> https://twitter.com/search?q=python.co.uk&src=typd
22:03:44 <SuperEngineer> "anything at all"
22:03:53 <CyberJacob> anything
22:03:59 <AlanBell> exactly, it just recognised you, well done
22:04:48 <CyberJacob> yay
22:04:53 <Bodsda> meetingology is written in python as well -- gotta love it
22:04:53 <meetingology> Bodsda: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
22:05:04 <Bodsda> yes well - you could do with some work
22:05:09 <BigRedS> haha
22:05:55 * Bodsda is now planning on wasting half the night reviewing the bots code
22:06:03 <AlanBell> ok, lets wrap up the meeting now
22:06:18 <AlanBell> Bodsda: oh cool, shout if you need anything explained
22:06:32 <SuperEngineer> oh - 1 quick thought - date of next meeting?
22:06:56 <AlanBell> what was your thought about it?
22:07:05 <AlanBell> lets pick out some actions
22:07:24 <AlanBell> #action sort out bletchley date
22:07:24 * meetingology sort out bletchley date
22:07:44 <AlanBell> #action email list about global jam/hackntalk event
22:07:44 * meetingology email list about global jam/hackntalk event
22:07:45 <SuperEngineer> action: AlanBell moves London closer to SuperEngineer
22:08:03 <AlanBell> #action Tell everyone to move closer to London
22:08:03 * meetingology Tell everyone to move closer to London
22:08:20 <SuperEngineer> :D
22:08:28 <BigRedS> :)
22:08:39 <AlanBell> #action sort out pub in London for Ringtail launch
22:08:39 * meetingology sort out pub in London for Ringtail launch
22:09:03 <AlanBell> #action sort out remote access hangout hardware for hackntalk event
22:09:03 * meetingology sort out remote access hangout hardware for hackntalk event
22:09:10 <AlanBell> so, next meeting?
22:10:46 <SuperEngineer> [Saturday meets good here]
22:12:03 <Bodsda> +1
22:12:28 <CyberJacob> +1
22:13:46 <AlanBell> 16th March?
22:13:55 <AlanBell> week after the global jam
22:14:19 <SuperEngineer> sounds cool
22:18:08 <AlanBell> ok, will set that up then
22:18:10 <AlanBell> #endmeeting