17:03:18 <MrChrisDruif> #startmeeting 17:03:18 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Nov 23 17:03:18 2011 UTC. The chair is MrChrisDruif. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. 17:03:18 <meetingology> 17:03:18 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 17:03:42 <MrChrisDruif> Welcome everyone, now we get "official" 17:03:54 <IAmNotThatGuy> Raise your hands for attendance 17:03:57 <IAmNotThatGuy> o/ 17:04:01 <MrChrisDruif> Indeed 17:04:01 <dmj726> o/ 17:04:03 <AlanBell> o/ 17:04:05 <MrChrisDruif> o/ 17:04:27 <popey> o/ 17:04:40 <MrChrisDruif> tgm4883 is unfortunately missing because of two interview back-to-back 17:04:53 <popey> oh, is the meeting actually now? 17:04:58 <MrChrisDruif> Yup 17:05:00 <popey> you're not just testing the bot? 17:05:01 <IAmNotThatGuy> popey, lol yep 17:05:02 <popey> oh, sorry 17:05:03 <popey> ☺ 17:05:11 <MrChrisDruif> #link http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UbuntuTV 17:05:26 <MrChrisDruif> (Quiet link acceptance?) 17:05:34 <MrChrisDruif> And another one 17:05:44 <MrChrisDruif> #link http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/22/%23ubuntu-tv.html 17:06:22 <MrChrisDruif> The first link is to the document we are about the further discuss. To know what has been discussed already, please look in the second link 17:06:23 <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay. Carryon 17:06:56 <MrChrisDruif> #topic Prioritizing the list 17:07:26 <AlanBell> MrChrisDruif: yeah, #link doesn't do a massive amount right now, there is a bug about that 17:07:37 <MrChrisDruif> <_<" 17:07:49 <MrChrisDruif> It's still useful to mention the links =) 17:08:00 <AlanBell> yes 17:08:51 <MrChrisDruif> We were going down the list from top to bottom and we got to Collaboration with Ubuntu devices 17:09:47 <MrChrisDruif> Does everybody understand the different sections? (They are pretty explanatory if you ask me) 17:09:52 <Wellark> hi! sorry for being late! 17:10:08 <MrChrisDruif> Welcome Wellark 17:10:13 <dmj726> Personally I think collaboration is high importance 17:10:31 <dmj726> It could be a pretty key differentiator for Ubuntu devices 17:10:44 <IAmNotThatGuy> +1 17:11:21 <MrChrisDruif> I'm not sure to put it in the high section. 17:11:47 <dmj726> Mark seems fairly keen on the idea too 17:11:54 <Wellark> yes, +1 17:11:59 <callumsaunders1> i agree with with dmj726 17:12:10 <callumsaunders1> high 17:12:15 <Wellark> as I've understood the "Unity Experience" is also largely about collaboration 17:12:19 <IAmNotThatGuy> MrChrisDruif, Any reasons for that thought? 17:13:14 <MrChrisDruif> Well, I think it might be a very good feature to have, I do think we shouldn't put it in the high because I don't know how many devs we will have and we can't have it all in high 17:13:55 <dmj726> Well, I think it's important to design with it in mind than to tack it on after all other things are implemented 17:14:14 <Wellark> well, I think the rest can be other than "high" :) 17:14:40 <Wellark> but collaboration between devices as high 17:14:41 <MrChrisDruif> Wellark; How do you mean? The things that are now in high you mean? 17:14:54 <Wellark> I mean the uncategorized ones 17:15:00 <MrChrisDruif> Okay, noted 17:15:09 <Wellark> there are only two left after this one 17:15:43 <Wellark> the high priority list seems to be pretty good package 17:15:56 <dmj726> So collaboration in High? 17:16:07 <callumsaunders1> high 17:16:31 <Wellark> +1 17:16:55 <MrChrisDruif> Btw I had a note added after the meeting about the previous item 17:17:06 <IAmNotThatGuy> But you should consider what MrChrisDruif is talking about. Starting it with less number of developers will also lead to some wrong tracks and delay in work 17:18:17 <dmj726> We should try to figure out how many developers the project really has. 17:18:19 <MrChrisDruif> That is certainly something to keep in mind, but it's prospected to not have anything very functional until 13.04 or something 17:18:50 <dmj726> It's probably more important to get it right than get it done quick and have to backtrack 17:19:23 <callumsaunders1> +1 17:19:25 <MrChrisDruif> Indeed 17:19:50 <Wellark> I don't feel the HIGH section is too cumbersome 17:19:51 <IAmNotThatGuy> dmj726, True. But if you ask me, then I will say "What about finding the right developers be the high priority job? =]" 17:20:12 <AlanBell> is there a hardware reference specification? 17:20:14 <Wellark> anyway the items in high section have to be prioritized 17:20:26 <dmj726> So we should decide what the core functionality needs to be for a compelling offering, and then work toward that. 17:20:43 <AlanBell> is it ARM or Atom for example? 17:20:46 <callumsaunders1> all of it. except home automation 17:20:56 <MrChrisDruif> dmj726; that was the main reasoning in the different sections 17:20:56 <AlanBell> what screen resolution? full HD? 17:21:00 <callumsaunders1> that list should be ubuntu tv 1.0 17:21:31 <popey> 0.00001 17:21:38 <MrChrisDruif> Haha, popey 17:21:51 <IAmNotThatGuy> popey +1000 ;D 17:22:02 <dmj726> also some things are easier to bolt on after the fact and others are much harder to change once you've gone far 17:22:13 <MrChrisDruif> What is absolutely required, is essential 17:22:33 <MrChrisDruif> That's why the plugin system is in high 17:22:53 <MrChrisDruif> It's not necessary, but it's a very useful way to add functionality later on 17:23:02 <dmj726> So essential is "what do we need for a working TV" 17:23:06 <MrChrisDruif> Yup 17:23:19 <MrChrisDruif> High is the "cool" system 17:23:31 <IAmNotThatGuy> We can even plan how it should be and can keep it for the next version (If needed) 17:23:31 <MrChrisDruif> Medium is the "awesome" system 17:23:32 <dmj726> high is "what do we need for a device that people will want beyond an ordinary tv" 17:23:33 <dmj726> yeah 17:23:57 <MrChrisDruif> And low is the "ICan'tDescribeThisInWords" system 17:24:50 <dmj726> for reference I suspect that control from portable devices will be very easy once we have Collaborate with other Ubuntu devices, just a little work on top of that framework 17:25:26 <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, that's why we initially put it in medium 17:25:39 <dmj726> and Push media to/from other Ubuntu devices / Media syncing capabilities would also fit within the framework 17:26:08 <dmj726> so implement collaboration framework and the other two are specific applications thereof 17:26:48 <MrChrisDruif> I tend to agree on that (I'm not a dev) 17:27:19 <dmj726> yeah, that sounds good 17:27:43 <dmj726> so we need the collaboration framework because that lets other devs make the TV very cool 17:28:17 <callumsaunders1> this needs to be in tablet & phone & pc aswell 17:28:30 <dmj726> yes, it should be everywhere 17:28:40 <MrChrisDruif> So either all those should be in high OR in medium, and if we'd have to call it now I'd say high (seeing the functionality of collaboration with tablet/phones) 17:29:01 <dmj726> okay 17:29:10 <MrChrisDruif> Everyone agrees on that? 17:29:14 <callumsaunders1> sure 17:29:18 <Wellark> sure 17:29:51 <MrChrisDruif> Alright, I'll move it up (and rephrase it after the meeting) 17:30:18 <IAmNotThatGuy> okies 17:30:48 <MrChrisDruif> I've put a note in the last one from the high (now at least) about collaboration with Ubuntu Phone & Tablet 17:31:21 <MrChrisDruif> I think we should also let them in on the "action" and pitch in where it's logical 17:31:42 <dmj726> yeah 17:31:50 <MrChrisDruif> (Luckily I've noticed that a lot from #ubuntu-phone & #ubuntu-tablet are already here) 17:32:13 <MrChrisDruif> But we still should give a shout-out to them on their mailing-lists 17:32:19 <dmj726> Also, input from other devices greatly enhances our 10' UX capabilities 17:32:44 <dmj726> (think typing on tablet vs typical TV keyboards for search) 17:33:01 <callumsaunders1> its just gravy 17:33:03 <MrChrisDruif> True that (or even a laptop =) ) 17:33:20 <MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, shall we continue down the line? 17:33:33 <dmj726> maybe gravy, but definitely a pain point on traditional ui 17:33:34 <dmj726> yep 17:33:36 <IAmNotThatGuy> k 17:33:38 <dmj726> moving on 17:34:04 <MrChrisDruif> Alright, next one is: Sharing media with friends 17:34:17 <callumsaunders1> it's a good way to get word out 17:34:48 <MrChrisDruif> With social media, think of youtube like/dislike, facebook, twitter, diaspora, what-have-you? 17:34:48 <dmj726> I think this sounds like a great plugin if done right 17:35:30 <callumsaunders1> i would say low 17:35:32 <MrChrisDruif> Indeed, but now it's about prioritizing =) 17:36:03 <Wellark> low +1 17:36:17 <MrChrisDruif> I would say medium as low is really "awful" things like home automation, which might even be more for server than tv 17:36:38 <dmj726> yeah, higher than home automation, but not high 17:36:44 <MrChrisDruif> But home automation should have a friendly shell for which a TV might be a good medium 17:36:56 <MrChrisDruif> So medium is good I think 17:37:03 <callumsaunders1> Home automation would be a good app for a tv 17:37:12 <MrChrisDruif> +1 on that callumsaunders1 17:37:46 <MrChrisDruif> Alright, next is Purchasing media 17:38:10 <callumsaunders1> this would mostly be web interfaces for stores? 17:39:34 <MrChrisDruif> Yes, I would think so. Use case: search for a movie > if it is available for purchase it gets highlighted in the search results 17:39:57 <MrChrisDruif> I think of VOD (in high quality of course) 17:40:00 <callumsaunders1> youtube do movies now, is that part of their api? 17:40:23 * MrChrisDruif doesn't know, nor care at this moment 17:40:32 <callumsaunders1> lol ok 17:40:38 <MrChrisDruif> Is it in the right location in medium? 17:40:41 <callumsaunders1> i would say medium 17:41:03 <MrChrisDruif> +1 on that 17:42:12 <MrChrisDruif> First a good basis/rich system, then we can think about financial stuff like buying content 17:42:30 <MrChrisDruif> So medium it is? 17:43:10 <MrChrisDruif> Silence says it all I think, moving on =) 17:43:33 <MrChrisDruif> Next has already been done I think: Home automation 17:43:51 <MrChrisDruif> Anyone disagreeing with the Low priority? 17:43:59 <callumsaunders1> not even sure it should be there at all 17:44:54 <MrChrisDruif> That's the advantage of low priority, we can always decide to drop it all together in a later stage, but for now I'd say keep it in =) 17:45:51 <MrChrisDruif> If Ubuntu want a complete system, then home automation should get a place in there. For the front-end I think it's a good idea to have it on TV 17:46:07 <MrChrisDruif> Any other comments? 17:46:31 <callumsaunders1> im happy 17:46:38 <MrChrisDruif> Good to hear =) 17:46:44 <MrChrisDruif> Alright, moving on 17:47:06 <MrChrisDruif> There has been an addition since yesterday: TV Guide 17:47:50 <MrChrisDruif> I think this one falls under Watching Media in Essential 17:48:59 <MrChrisDruif> Otherwise it could be easily implemented with the plugin system; devs what do you think? 17:50:11 <MrChrisDruif> dmj726? popey? IAmNotThatGuy? Others? 17:50:17 * AlanBell thinks mythbuntu does all of this already 17:50:25 <AlanBell> it needs a unity theme 17:50:37 <AlanBell> with lancher and lens type gui 17:50:55 <AlanBell> then everything is either already done, or a mythtv plugin 17:51:08 <AlanBell> already has the 10' /3m user interface 17:51:27 <IAmNotThatGuy> If we need some changes, then we can work on that plugin 17:51:30 <AlanBell> TV guide is there, weather, home automation stuff like that 17:52:01 <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell; I think it was tgm4883 that already commented that we should try to use current software solutions 17:52:32 <AlanBell> so a chunky launcher bar on the left selecting live tv, recorded stuff, playback of DVDs (which would already pop up in the launcher) 17:52:43 <AlanBell> lens for current live channels 17:52:49 <MrChrisDruif> So if Mythbuntu already fits the bill, that would save a lot of effort 17:53:06 <AlanBell> however, what are we targetting? 17:53:24 <MrChrisDruif> Hardware-wise you mean? 17:53:28 <AlanBell> what is the hardware platform? does the OEM team have a customer hardware specification in mind? 17:53:58 <AlanBell> hardware, broadband connectivity, screen resolution, screen size etc 17:54:15 <AlanBell> is this for a settop box or something integrated in TVs? 17:54:16 <MrChrisDruif> Do we even have a OEM team? =/ 17:55:01 <AlanBell> yes, canonical has an OEM team 17:55:17 <MrChrisDruif> Alright, then we haven't spoken to them about that 17:56:06 <tgm4883> Back for 2 minutes before the next interview 17:56:25 <AlanBell> were there concept drawings done for unity on tv when unity was being designed? 17:56:28 <MrChrisDruif> tgm4883; I wanted to close up, but if you have anything to say, do so =) 17:57:43 <tgm4883> looks good, the TV guide data is necessary for any DVR type functionality 17:58:10 <tgm4883> AlanBell, Mythbuntu does fit the bill for a lot of this, but I think we need to change the frontend 17:58:10 <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell; any suggestions for what we should do next? Speak to which teams, to get an idea of what kind of concept canonical already has envisioned for Ubuntu TV? 17:58:24 <tgm4883> I don't think the MythTV frontend is capable/flashy enough for what we want 17:58:28 <tgm4883> I suggested XBMC 17:58:54 <AlanBell> fine, whichever 17:59:03 <tgm4883> and time for interview #2 17:59:47 <AlanBell> we could contribute improvements upstream for one or the other 17:59:57 <MrChrisDruif> Indeed 18:00:08 <imnichol> Hey everyone, that meeting still happening? 18:00:27 <AlanBell> is it for ARM or x86? 18:01:33 <MrChrisDruif> Does anybody feel for inquiring for this information? 18:01:46 * popey returns 18:02:06 <MrChrisDruif> And besides ARM or x86; settop-box or integrated 18:02:15 <popey> both and both 18:02:17 <popey> :D 18:02:21 <popey> there, that was easy 18:02:23 <MrChrisDruif> Probably 18:02:40 <popey> I dont think we're far enough down the line to make decisions about hardware platforms 18:02:45 <AlanBell> full HD? 18:02:49 <popey> yes 18:03:02 <popey> where full = 1080p 18:03:07 <AlanBell> yup 18:03:36 <AlanBell> that makes a huge difference in gui design 18:03:50 <popey> yeah, needs a massive interface 18:04:00 <popey> big fonts, big icons/pictures 18:04:08 <popey> cover art etc 18:04:10 <AlanBell> and crisp, svg all the way 18:04:20 <MrChrisDruif> That's the idea of 10' interface, right? 18:05:45 <popey> 17:58:10 < MrChrisDruif> AlanBell; any suggestions for what we should do next? Speak to which teams, to get an idea of what kind of concept canonical already has envisioned for Ubuntu TV? 18:05:53 <MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, I'm wasted. Shall we call it a day? 18:05:55 <popey> Design Team and Product Strategy 18:06:05 <MrChrisDruif> Thanks popey =) 18:06:06 <popey> (are who you might want to speak to) 18:06:07 <imnichol> Are we going to return to the idea of home automation at all? 18:06:11 <imnichol> Or did I miss that? 18:06:13 <popey> willcooke and myself both work in product strategy 18:06:25 <MrChrisDruif> imnichol; we will keep it low for now =) 18:06:26 <popey> and the design team live in #ubuntu-design 18:06:47 <imnichol> Ok cool. I've got some concerns about the right place for it, but I'll register them later 18:06:53 <popey> I think for a first run the main focus should be "choosing video to play" and "playing video" ☺ 18:07:04 <MrChrisDruif> imnichol; read the logs afterwards 18:07:11 <popey> where that content comes from who knows, how we play it, who knows.. 18:07:32 <imnichol> MrChrisDruif: reading them now. 18:07:57 <MrChrisDruif> popey; AlanBell; others; shall I #endmeeting ? 18:08:10 <AlanBell> fine by me 18:08:21 <IAmNotThatGuy> yea 18:08:25 <imnichol> yup 18:08:26 <MrChrisDruif> Alright 18:08:43 <MrChrisDruif> Thanks everyone for showing up and raising your voice =) 18:08:46 <MrChrisDruif> #endmeeting