19:09 <rbasak> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
19:09 <meetingology> Meeting started at 19:09:23 UTC.  The chair is rbasak.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
19:09 <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick
19:09 <rbasak> I'm just going to jump straight in then
19:09 <rbasak> #topic
19:09 <rbasak> #topic Ubuntu MOTU Developer Applications
19:10 <rbasak> #subtopic Frank Heimes
19:10 <rbasak> Previous adjourned meeting:
19:10 <rbasak> #link https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2022/07/25/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t16:42
19:10 <rbasak> I'd like to maybe continue asking fheimes about both transitions and proposed migration
19:11 <fheimes> sure
19:11 <rbasak> Does anyone else have any questions for fheimes?
19:11 <sil2100> I'm still reading through the previous logs and the application, as I was not present on the previous meeting
19:12 <utkarsh2102> I have, but I'll ask after rbasak or jump in if I have anything in b/w
19:12 <rbasak> fheimes: OK, so on transitions, I'm just looking to get some confidence that you won't accidentally trigger one when you upload.
19:13 <rbasak> Did you consider anything further since we discussed this last time?
19:14 <fheimes> I had a look at some transition, the pcre2 transition
19:14 <fheimes> and I also proceeded with some work on proposed-migration
19:14 <fheimes> so you may ask in both directions if you want
19:15 <rbasak> Can you suggest a simple check that you can do before you upload that would catch if a regular transition would be triggered by your upload?
19:15 <fheimes> a transition that I once faced was a more trivial one: libica
19:16 <fheimes> a change in the name of the binary package for example: like an SONAME bump (libfoo[n] changes to libfoo[n+1])
19:16 <rbasak> Great, thanks :)
19:16 <rbasak> OK, and for proposed migration I'm just looking to ensure that you know how to look after a package after you've upload to make sure it lands.
19:17 <rbasak> How would you check to see if it's landed, and where would you look to find the reason if it hasn't?
19:18 <fheimes> several ways to check IF it landed: LP, rmadison, enable proposed and have a look etc.
19:18 <utkarsh2102> "enable proposed and have a look"?
19:18 <fheimes> if it didn't landed, there must be a reason for it, and the update_excuse page(s) will help
19:18 <rbasak> Where is the update_excuse page please/
19:18 <rbasak> ?
19:19 <fheimes> "apt-cache policy" -- but tbh I wouldn't really do that
19:19 <fheimes> this one points to the current devel release: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html
19:19 <rbasak> OK thanks!
19:19 <rbasak> utkarsh2102: over to you?
19:19 <fheimes> but there are others for the stble releases as well
19:19 <fheimes> s/stble/stable
19:20 <sil2100> I also have a question o/
19:20 <utkarsh2102> fheimes: what if there's nothing worthwhile on the update_excuses page and for some reason, the package has still not migrated?
19:20 <fheimes> (I helped on getting zlib through for K and J - now with F ...)
19:20 <utkarsh2102> what would you do then?
19:22 <fheimes> well, there are more things to check (lik block-proposed tag, in case of an SRU missing verification)
19:22 <fheimes> but if there is nothing I can find I would of course ask - e.g. AA
19:23 <utkarsh2102> block-proposed is clearly show in the update_excuses page
19:23 <fheimes> (I would consider failed tests and  broken dependencies as worthwhile ...)
19:23 <utkarsh2102> my question was what if you don't find anything worthwhile there. No obvious blockers or block-proposed or anything.
19:24 <utkarsh2102> what would you do? Where would you look?
19:24 <utkarsh2102> fheimes: but those reasons are shown in the update_excuses page, isn't it?
19:24 <fheimes> yes, hence I would consider them also as worthwhile ...
19:25 <utkarsh2102> uh, let me rephrase my question
19:26 <utkarsh2102> what all steps are checked/performed in proposed-migration
19:27 <utkarsh2102> let's say you uploaded src:foo to the devel release
19:27 <fheimes> so it's checked if it's a "valid caniidate"
19:27 <utkarsh2102> where does it go first?
19:27 <fheimes> means it must build on all archs
19:27 <utkarsh2102> yes, what checks are done for that?
19:28 <fheimes> all deps must be satisfyiable (either with release of other packages that are migrated at the same time)
19:28 <fheimes> and all tests must not be regress
19:28 <fheimes> tests of the package, it's binaries or of it's reverse deps
19:29 <utkarsh2102> of the package itself? Or?
19:29 <utkarsh2102> ok, then?
19:30 <fheimes> the and it must not break anything when it's get moved to release  (packages that are already in release)
19:31 <fheimes> there are a lot of reasons that  may prevent a package from being migrated, listed in the ubuntu-server handbook
19:31 <utkarsh2102> alright, since we have another candidate, i don't want to drag this. What I want to hear is "in case everything's passing and the package still doesn't migrate, there might be uninstallabilty issues". D'you know about them? And where would you look?
19:31 <fheimes> but these largely cause an indication on update_excuses, too
19:32 <fheimes> that is one of them, more are:
19:32 <fheimes> main/universe binary mismatch
19:32 <fheimes> has no binaries on arch
19:32 <sil2100> Yeah, update_excuses nowadays seems to have most of the info
19:32 <fheimes> different kinds of dependency issues
19:32 <rbasak> Does anyone else have questions for fheimes?
19:33 <kanashiro[m]> fheimes: do you know the recommended way to trigger tests nowadays?
19:33 <sil2100> fheimes: as this is something utkarsh2102 might have wanted to hear: do you know about update_output.txt?
19:34 <fheimes> install issues: e.g. in case the dependent and depending packages are in different areas of the archive (one in main and the other in universe)
19:34 <fheimes> install issues: e.g. in case the dependent and depending packages are in different areas of the archive (one in main and the other in universe)
19:34 <fheimes> or: a source package may have some binaries in main and others in universe, but this can get mixed up for various reasons
19:35 <fheimes> for retriggering test you need to have permissions
19:35 <fheimes> but it is generally done based on a autopkgtest URL
19:35 <fheimes> I modified several URLs for tests and asked core-devs to re-trigger them for me
19:36 <fheimes> sil2100: I see
19:36 <fheimes> so yes, update_excuses is only one of the interesting files here:
19:36 <kanashiro[m]> fheimes: how would you generate those URLs?
19:36 <fheimes> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/
19:37 <fheimes> I think there is a generator, but tbh. so far I modified them by hand (I think it's not to difficult)
19:37 <utkarsh2102> fheimes: I think you're confusing with different things here. I have a feeling that you're talking about component-mismatches(?)
19:37 <utkarsh2102> anyway, skip that for now
19:37 <utkarsh2102> we have less time
19:37 <utkarsh2102> over to kanashiro
19:38 <fheimes> at the update_excuses page there is the re-trigger link (that I cannot use myself)
19:38 <kanashiro[m]> fheimes: to avoid re-triggering tests already in the queue you can use retry-autopkgtest-regressions
19:39 <fheimes> I thought that is s/t only core-devs can do (but I might be wrong)
19:39 <kanashiro[m]> I am done, sil2100 ?
19:40 <sil2100> fheimes: so yeah, nowadays most info is in update_excuses, but there is also the update_output.txt file for proposed migration that includes some additional britney info, helpful when trying to determine installability issues of packages in -proposed
19:40 <kanashiro[m]> fheimes: if you become a MOTU dev you can trigger tests for packages in universe as well
19:40 <sil2100> I'm good if anything
19:41 <rbasak> #vote Grant Frank Heimes MOTU
19:41 <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant Frank Heimes MOTU
19:41 <fheimes> (that would be a relief to be able to retrigger at least the universe ones - for digging deeper into autopkgtest issues I usually have to run them locally ...)
19:41 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')
19:41 <rbasak> +1
19:41 <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
19:42 <kanashiro[m]> +0
19:42 <meetingology> +0 received from kanashiro[m]
19:42 <rbasak> I was hoping you'd point to the proposed migration documentation page, but you did say that you'd ask for help, and you do know how to identify when you need it. Note that asking for help generally (eg. in #ubuntu-devel) will probably be the most effective - other people will be able to see what's going on. You probably won't need an AA, but if you do, then someone will be able to determine that
19:42 <rbasak> for certain. And there are more non-AAs :)
19:43 <fheimes> well, I really thought tha knowing this page is trivial
19:43 <rbasak> ItzSwirlz: I'm sorry, it looks like we're not going to have enough time today :-(
19:43 <ItzSwirlz> rbasak: in that case, and i hate to say this but you guys are going to have to vote in my absence
19:43 <sil2100> +1
19:43 <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
19:44 <utkarsh2102> +0 with reasons to follow
19:44 <meetingology> +0 with reasons to follow received from utkarsh2102
19:44 <ItzSwirlz> unless you want to move the meeting to another time past 4:10 -0400
19:44 <kanashiro[m]> I feel fheimes needs some more work on the development release to assimilate all the concepts better, some +1 maint work would be welcome
19:44 <rbasak> ItzSwirlz: we can try to find a time that works for you
19:45 <utkarsh2102> yes, that^
19:45 <rbasak> #endvote
19:45 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant Frank Heimes MOTU
19:45 <meetingology> Votes for: 2, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 2
19:45 <meetingology> Motion carried
19:46 <rbasak> Correction - not carried. We have +2, with 3 DMB members absent. We need at least two other votes to reach a conclusion I think.
19:46 <rbasak> Sorry we didn't manage to reach a conclusion fheimes. I'll follow up on the list.
19:46 <utkarsh2102> whilst knowing those things aren't _absolutely_ necessary, it's always good to know. If you don't know or are confused about something, ask on #ubuntu-devel. You're gonna wanna be a core-dev at one point, I think knowing those would be really helpful and needed then.
19:46 <sil2100> rbasak: one vote seem enough
19:47 <rbasak> sil2100: if it's a +1.
19:47 <rbasak> If it's a -1 then we'd need more.
19:47 <rbasak> This is the problem with +0 votes :-(
19:47 <sil2100> rbasak: ah, yes, indeed, I guess I misunderstood!
19:47 <sil2100> I meant one more +1 for this to be carried
19:48 <rbasak> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
19:48 <rbasak> #subtopic     Joshua Peisach (for 2022-09-05)
19:49 <rbasak> I suggest there's not enough time now to handle this application.
19:49 <rbasak> Maybe we should reduce to max 1 application per meeting?
19:49 <utkarsh2102> ItzSwirlz: you'll not be able to make it at any of the 2 slots we have?
19:49 <rbasak> Anyway, let's use the remaining time to find a solution.
19:49 <sil2100> rbasak: should we start it now and then maybe continue via e-mail?
19:49 <sil2100> Or should we just move it to the a meeting at a time that's more convenient for ItzSwirlz ?
19:49 <ItzSwirlz> utkarsh2102: school starts up tomorrow for me and my day runs from 8 am to 4:10 pm -0400, not the most fun situation
19:50 <ItzSwirlz> sil2100: I'd rather move to another time so there won't be time wasted on waiting for responses from me
19:50 <rbasak> I have no objection to starting now, but I'm quite reluctant to fall back to e-mail unless there's really no other option. I'd prefer to find a time that we can mutually make, even if we have to arrange a meeting at a special time for that.
19:50 <sil2100> ACK
19:51 <rbasak> How about we move the next meeting which would be at 1600 UTC to 2100 UTC instead?
19:52 <rbasak> Or, how about before 8am for ItzSwirlz? Would that work?
19:52 <ItzSwirlz> rbasak: lol i have to get on the bus at 7:15, but if it wasnt for that i'd say yes (oof)
19:52 <ItzSwirlz> 2100 UTC would be good, let me check my calendar
19:52 <rs2009> I'll probably be applying for PPU status in the next DMB meeting (for the Ubuntu Unity packages)
19:52 <rbasak> 19 Sept 2100 UTC
19:53 <utkarsh2102> 21 UTC means 0230 for me.
19:53 <rbasak> rs2009: sorry if this one happens I don't think we'd be availabl then. You'd have to wait for the next one.
19:53 <utkarsh2102> I'll not be able to make it
19:53 <rbasak> We don't usually have the meetings so full.
19:53 <ItzSwirlz> That would be good-ohhh utkarsh2102 ._.
19:53 <rs2009> rbasak: sure :)
19:53 <kanashiro[m]> 2100 UTC works for me
19:54 <rs2009> utkarsh2102: it's actually 1:23 am here in India
19:54 <sil2100> I could do 2100 UTC if needed
19:54 <rbasak> sil2100, bdmurray, teward[m], kanashiro[m]: ^ how does 19 Sept 2100 UTC work for you?
19:54 <rbasak> Thanks!
19:54 <rbasak> That's three. Let's see if we can get a fourth on the ML.
19:55 <ItzSwirlz> Cool
19:55 <utkarsh2102> rs2009: the proposal is for 2100 UTC, which is 0230 IST
19:55 <utkarsh2102> let me know if have my math wrong? 😢
19:55 <ItzSwirlz> Quick Q - can I still endorse rs2009 pre-approval
19:55 <rbasak> utkarsh2102: it's OK, you can be helpful when there's someone further east of you needing a special meeting time :-P
19:55 <rs2009> utkarsh2102: actually have my exams from Wednesday, so prob won't be able to attend :(
19:56 <rbasak> ItzSwirlz: please do comment, but make it clear you're not an uploader (yet).
19:56 <rbasak> And you can change that if your status changes before rs2009's meeting!
19:56 <utkarsh2102> rbasak: yeah, kinda waiting for that day
19:56 <teward[m]> rbasak thats ok for me
19:56 <ItzSwirlz> will do
19:56 <rs2009> ItzSwirlz: thanks! :)
19:56 <rbasak> Great we have four. So we'll be quorate. Thanks all!
19:56 <ItzSwirlz> thanks everyone
19:56 <rbasak> We're basically out of time, so let's finish for now, and defer the rest of the agenda for next time.
19:57 <rbasak> The next meeting will be at a special time, so I'll amend the agenda accordingly.
19:57 <teward[m]> *goes back to the family cookout gettogether*
19:57 <fheimes> thx (good luck ItzSwirlz)
19:58 <ItzSwirlz> fheimes: ty, you too
19:58 <sil2100> o/
19:58 * rs2009 puts down phone and tries to go to sleep at 1:30 am
19:58 <utkarsh2102> o/
19:58 <kanashiro[m]> o/
19:59 <ItzSwirlz> o/
19:59 <rs2009> o/
19:59 <rbasak> #endmeeting