16:12 #startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board 16:12 Meeting started at 16:12:48 UTC. The chair is ddstreet. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology 16:12 Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick 16:13 #topic Current meeting chair 16:13 this hasn't been discussed for a while, but I think having only sil2100 on the list doesn't seem optimal; anyone else want to volunteer to be on the chairing rotation? 16:14 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda 16:14 for reference, the agenda i'm going thru 16:14 I would after a couple of more meetings 16:14 I will do aft... same 16:14 ok guess we can bring it up again at later mtg 16:14 i'll skip the long-term action items as we usually do 16:15 👍 16:15 #topic previous action items 16:15 #subtopic ddstreet announce fnordahl successful application 16:15 this is done 16:15 #subtopic ddstreet adjust fnordahl PPU acl 16:15 this is done, i haven't checked the TB bug (there is a later item to check it) 16:15 #subtopic kanashiro announce athos successful application 16:15 this is listed as done 16:16 #subtopic kanashiro adjust athos ACL for MOTU 16:16 also listed as done 16:16 #subtopic sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over) 16:16 i assume this should be carried over, as he's not here 16:16 #action sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over) 16:16 * meetingology sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over) 16:16 #subtopic sil2100 start discussion on process/rules for when to create packageset vs PPU 16:17 will carry over as well since he's busy at the sprint 16:17 #action sil2100 start discussion on process/rules for when to create packageset vs PPU (carried over) 16:17 * meetingology sil2100 start discussion on process/rules for when to create packageset vs PPU (carried over) 16:17 #subtopic teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over) 16:17 carry over teward? 16:17 yep 16:17 #action teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over) 16:17 * meetingology teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over) 16:17 ok that's all the previous action items 16:17 the only application is from me, for a ubuntu-support-uploaders team 16:18 does the rest of the board want to consider that now or defer it to a meeting where more members are present? 16:19 Are there people currently interested and ready to join that team? 16:19 yes 16:19 I think we can review it now, or at least start discussing it 16:20 i actually am trying to hand this application off to a colleague, but haven't done that just yet 16:20 ok let's do at least an initial discussions then 16:20 #topic ubuntu-support-uploaders team application 16:21 for clarification, this request is to create a new DMB-managed team that has upload rights for a new packageset 16:21 will this team have the ability to approve their own members? 16:21 * bdmurray is reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation 16:21 initially, the only team member would be me (assuming i haven't passed this off to someone before its approved), and the initial first package is sosreport 16:22 bdmurray the DMB docs on this aren't exactly clear, at least to my reading, but no this would be a standard DMB-managed team that can't manage its own members; new members would need to apply to the DMB to join 16:23 okay 16:23 why do you feel like there is a need for a such team? 16:24 and who do you envision to be interested to join it? 16:24 so that the ACL for all the support team's packages is kept in a single packageset, so new members don't need to apply for PPU for a collection of packages 16:25 re: joiners, members of Canonical support and/or community members who support Ubuntu 16:26 i believe the setup would be very similar to the 'ubuntu-server' packageset, which is ACL'ed by the ~ubuntu-server-dev team 16:26 so anyone on the Canonical server team i suspect is familiar with that and understands the usefulness of the setup 16:27 For the server team I'd think its a stepping stone to core dev though. 16:27 seb128 if i understand the ~ubuntu-desktop team correctly (which has ACL to upload into the ubuntu-desktop packageset), that is different as far as managing its own members 16:28 bdmurray could be, though i don't think that's necessarily a goal for support members 16:28 I see the interest of creating a set, providing the content of the set has value to some people who aren't going to apply to more 16:29 I'm not really familiar with what the support team usually needs though, nor with sosreport 16:29 sosreport, systemtap, crash, gdb, etc 16:30 packageset additions would have to be approved by the DMB of course 16:30 initially it's only sosreport 16:30 right, I just foresee that to be of real use that set would need to include things like gdb and apport 16:30 Given that any changes, of people or packages, would be managed by the DMB I'm fine with creating this team. 16:30 which probably creates an higher contribution trust level than sosreport 16:31 seb128 absolutely, i just want to defer adding those packages until we can be sure we actually want/need upload rights for them 16:31 gdb, for example, generally hasn't really required us to upload fixes for it 16:31 even though we use it extensively 16:31 I feel like people doing those packages should probably aim for coredev 16:32 that might change in the future if/when debuginfod is implemented for ubuntu 16:32 doing uploads for* 16:32 seb128 why do you feel that? support's goal is very different and very far removed from devel release work 16:32 you may be viewing this from product engineering perspective 16:33 it's more that I see some of those components as key ubuntu packages, preinstalled 16:33 so I wouldn't hand upload right for those lightly 16:33 and to win the trust needed you would probably need significant uploads to Ubuntu 16:33 that seems more like a question of which specific packages should be in the packageset though, not if the packageset should be created in the first place? 16:34 right 16:34 if you haven't ever used sosreport, for example, do you think only coredevs should be able to upload that? 16:34 but the path leads me to wonder if the packageset is going to be of real use 16:34 no 16:34 crash likewise is heavily used by support, but i doubt if that really needs a coredev to upload it 16:35 right 16:35 in any case, the initial application only involves sosreport 16:35 I don't see an issue with creating that packageset 16:35 any more q from anyone? 16:36 since i'm applying for the packageset/team, i'll abstain from the voting 16:36 i would like to get things rolling before the next meeting though, is it ok with everyone here if I ask for a vote (and any further discussion) to happen on the ML? 16:37 that's ok with me 16:37 that's fine with me 16:37 #action ddstreet request discussion/voting on ubuntu-support-uploaders continue on ML 16:37 * meetingology ddstreet request discussion/voting on ubuntu-support-uploaders continue on ML 16:37 ok thanks, i'll send an email to the list to follow up 16:38 just for clarification, my questions were basically aimed at getting a feeling on the value of a such set, but I've not been in the DMB long enough to really understand if that's something we should give consideration to 16:38 #topic open TB bugs 16:39 seb128 yep i understand, and i think the DMB might benefit from more defined docs to help new members (and old members!) understand what exactly the process and policies are 16:39 anyway, moving on 16:39 #subtopic fnordahl PPU 16:39 right, sorry for derailling thins :) 16:39 things 16:39 np :) 16:39 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/1967795 16:39 Launchpad bug 1967795 in ubuntu-community "[TB/DMB] PPU for ~fnordahl" [Undecided, Fix Released] 16:39 look like this is done 16:39 #topic AOB 16:40 #subtopic No single official source of DMB rules/procedures/policies, and KB wiki page is not complete or correct 16:40 I don't know if we want to discuss this here and/or in the ML 16:40 and this might just be my personal opinion 16:41 ML or another time 16:41 I need to wrap in a few minutes at least 16:41 #subtopic Suggestion (from ddstreet) to discontinue use of private DMB IRC channel, and keep all official communication public 16:41 this also is just a suggestion from me 16:41 no need to discuss now, if everyone needs to wrap 16:41 any comments before we end? 16:42 or any other AOB topics? 16:42 not from me 16:42 ok let's wrap, thanks everyone o/ 16:42 #endmeeting