19:11 #startmeeting DMB meeting 19:11 Meeting started at 19:11:14 UTC. The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology 19:11 Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick 19:11 So maybe let's start with our applicant! 19:12 #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications 19:12 #subtopic fnordahl - per-package upload rights for the openvswitch and ovn packages 19:12 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/fnordahl/uppuapp 19:12 fnordahl: hello! 19:12 Hello there, thank you for receiving my application! 19:12 fnordahl: please introduce yourself briefly! 19:13 My name is Frode, I'm located in Oslo/Norway and have worked with/on Ubuntu for several years. I have always have had a focus on network pieces and I stil find those very interesting. 19:15 So you're applying for PPU for 'openvswitch' and 'ovn', right? 19:16 That is correct. The interest in Open vSwitch and OVN started out from its use in cloud, but recently it has become a more and more important piece in the infrastructure due to developments of network bandiwdth and the need for offloading flows into hardware etc. 19:16 One thing to think about for our DMB members is whether we should create a packageset or maybe just a personal PPU - but we'll think about it later, I don't think this is relevant to the application itself 19:16 Ok, questions? teward? ddstreet? 19:17 I need a moment to take a look at the application 19:17 fnordahl: under what cases should you *NOT* upload a package during a cycle? 19:17 fnordahl i assume you did not see my ping in ubuntu-release after you sent your email, but why aren't you applying to be part of the openstack packageset/team instead? 19:17 also ^^ that 19:17 ddstreet: we'd have to add ovn and openvswith to that packageset though! 19:17 well...right, isn't that more appropriate? 19:17 ddstreet: the team is split into multiple focused sub teams, so I work solemnly on Open vSwitch and OVN. 19:18 ddstreet: sometimes we aid in stuff above such as OpenStack too of course, but I would not be working on the other OpenStack packages. 19:19 ddstreet: ...I guess, I always grouped them together in my mind. But then again I think they're more like 'related' but not 'part of'. Maybe it's a good discussion to have 19:19 teward: It is important for me to stay up to date on the release schedule. As Ubuntu is a time based release, it is very important that everyone work with this in mind so that we hit the release on time. 19:19 that... isn't an answer to the question I asked :P 19:20 at what points in the development cycle should you be cautious about uploading package updates during the cycle? 19:20 ... and now i'm overly redundant >.< 19:20 (i have a 10min hardstop btw for awareness) 19:20 teward: that is what I'm getting at :) Any major changes would need to be uploaded prior to the FeatureFreeze 19:20 sorry i'm running in "VeryImpatientMode" today >.> 19:21 FT job has me running at a billion RPMs. 19:21 openvswitch/ovn are a subset of openstack, they make no sense at all without the rest of openstack, so it wouldn't make sense to create a separate packageset just for them (separate from openstack) - so i think the only rational choices here are either fnordahl goes into openstack pkgset/team, or gets ppu for those specific pkgs 19:21 ddstreet: openvswitch/ovn is used outside of OpenStack, both in LXD and in Kubernetes. 19:21 and it seems fnordahl would prefer just ppu instead of joining openstack pkgset team 19:21 lxd uses ovn? 19:22 ddstreet: yes 19:22 you mean it *can* use ovn, or it always uses ovn? 19:22 ddstreet: it can use it 19:22 teward: did that answer your question btw? 19:22 yeah...would anyone ever set up lxd with ovn without openstack? 19:22 ddstreet: yes 19:22 ah ok well i suppose it is separate then 19:25 * ddstreet starts to set up ovn with lxd ;-) 19:25 :) 19:25 nothing else from me 19:25 i keep getting pulled left right up and down at FT job even though i work from home so *summons Cthulu for reasons* 19:25 fnordahl: can you tell me what's happening to a package uploaded to Ubuntu from the moment of upload until the moment it moves to the release pocket? 19:26 (I have no more questions 'cause sil asked the other one i was going to ask) 19:27 sil2100: In Ubuntu there is multiple pockets where packets live. Before going to the -main or -updates pocket the package will sitt in the -proposed pocket for a period (normally a week I believe) before it gets further promotion. If the upload is for a stable release (SRU) it would also need extra verification to confirm the upload addresses the issue at hand. 19:28 There are also other queues, autopackage tests that packages need to go through before hitting any pocket. 19:29 fnordahl: that's almost good. You mentioned a wait period in -proposed - can you elaborate a bit more about that? 19:31 i have 1 more q actually once you are done sil2100 19:33 sil2100: So in the development release it appears I was mistaken about there being a fixed time before promotion. 19:34 There is a set of criterias that need to be met, such as builds for all architectures, dependencies satisfiable, no bugs on -proposed, passes tests etc before it can be promoted. 19:35 The purpose is also to get exposure to a smaller audience which have opted into -proposed so that one can get a reading before the package goes into -main in case there are unforseen problems 19:35 fnordahl: is the promotion from -proposed a manual process? 19:37 fnordahl: and a final follow up question - you're mentioning a -main pocket. Can you tell me more about it? Is the name correct? 19:40 I would think the package test infrastructure is at least partially automated, but I do not currently know if the promotion in the -development release is automatic if the criterias are met or if there is a manual vetting process at the end. 19:42 So pockets, when you frame the question it in that way it makes me wonder if I've used the wrong name 19:43 main is a set of packages that receive support, other classes of packages are described as being in "universe", "multiverse" etc 19:43 But regardless of support state, there are -updates -proposed and other pockets for them. 19:44 So I guess main is not a correct name for a pocket in that sense 19:44 sil2100 any follow up? i have just 1 more q 19:44 fnordahl: correct, we call this the 'release' pocket basically. As you have written, main and universe are components 19:45 No more questions from me, ddstreet go ahead! 19:45 fnordahl are you familiar with, or do you currently participate in, the sru exception process for openstack packages (which includes openvswitch/ovn)? 19:45 specifically the point release exception 19:46 ddstreet: yes, I am aware of there being what is described as an MRE, which allows SRU of upstream appointed point releases 19:47 i assume you would participate in that for the openvswitch/ovn packages, i.e. you would be uploading new point release versions sometimes? 19:47 Yes, that is the intention. We are currently behind on one of the OVN ones now which we want to correct 19:48 can you summarize the differences between the normal sru process and the openstack sru exception process? 19:48 at least the most important one(s) 19:50 If we for example have patches for three LP bugs in OVN and want to SRU those under the normal process, we need to perform full verification which includes a control test with a unpactched pacakge and demonstrate that a patched package resolves the problem for each separate bug (i.e. on 3 LP bugs). 19:51 With the sru exception process we instead perform a distro regression test on a whole set of changes, blessed by the upstream community, and when we find no problems we can SRU the set of changes from the point releae in one go. 19:52 ddstreet: at least that is the most important difference from performing the verification perspective. did that answer your question? 19:52 yep, thanks! nothing else from me 19:54 Ok, thank you for answering our questions 19:54 Thank you for asking them and taking the time to consider my application! 19:54 hm, I think we'll move this to the ML, but it should hopefully be fast as there's just one member that didn't yet have the occassion to ask questions 19:55 I think we'll vote then, via e-mail, since questions provide valuable information for all of us 19:55 So that would be most fair 19:55 Sounds good to me, should I subscribe to the devel-permissions list or will I be on Cc? 19:56 Ok... bad news is that I also actually have to go AFK in a moment, so I'd say let's end the meeting - I finished like one action item, but everything else is still in progress 19:56 fnordahl: I'll keep you in the loop o/ 19:56 But subscribing to devel-permissions is a good idea anyway ;) 19:57 #endmeeting