16:02 #startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board 16:02 Meeting started at 16:02:23 UTC. The chair is ddstreet. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology 16:02 Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick 16:02 but can weigh in on apps 16:02 so o/ 16:02 let's start with the chairing list, for members who haven't caught up on email after the holidays yet 16:03 (even though it's later in the agenda, hopefully it won't take long) 16:03 #topic DMB rotating chair list 16:03 #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2021-December/001845.html 16:03 the replies were positive, so I updated the agenda page 16:03 does any member have any objections to bring up to the new chair list? 16:04 rbasak do you want to be included in the chair list? 16:04 currently it's just sil2100 and myself 16:04 I'm happy to chair but can't when I have a concurrent meeting, like right now. 16:04 I don't know how that works with a specific list and expectations on such a list. 16:05 ack, let's leave you off the chair list then, but i dont think anyone will have any problem if you want to chair on any specific mtg date and volunteer to 16:05 ok moving on, no previous action items to review (besides long-term ones) 16:05 #topic PPU application from Luca Boccassi 16:06 bluca you around? 16:06 hi 16:06 Hello! can you introduce yourself? 16:06 sure! 16:06 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bluca/PerPackageUploaderApplication 16:06 I put details on that wiki link, but in short: I'm a software eng by trade, currently working at msft 16:06 been a debian developer since ~2017 with upload rights 16:07 been working with various folks from Canonical on a few packages, like src:dpdk, and would like to step up the collaboration and effort with PPU 16:07 that's the short version :-) 16:07 thanks! I'll give some time for rbasak and sil2100 to review the application details 16:08 and as you saw, I did already review everything over email and provided my +1 on the ML 16:08 bluca: thank you for looking after you packages in Ubuntu! I'm concerned though that there's a mismatch of expectations in your application though. Giving upload access to DDs for their packages in Ubuntu isn't automatic. It's predicated on the applicant having a demonstrated understanding of Ubuntu-specific processes. But I don't see much (if any) evidence of that in your application. Is it your 16:08 view that you meet this requirement already? 16:08 oh and time for teward to review application as well, sorry teward i just saw you joined 16:09 I believe so - now I'm not the greatest expert (yet) but I have been working with other folks like cpaelzer who constantly show me the ropes w.r.t. ubuntu-specific processes 16:09 I do u nderstand the different requirements, schedule cadence, timing, channels that ubuntu has w.r.t. debian, for example 16:09 (eg: sru processes for stable fixes) 16:11 I do not plan to go gun-blasting, but start slowly and asking for help when in doubt 16:11 https://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=*Boccassi*&sponsoree_search=name is the list of sponsored uploads you have already. 16:11 There I see one backport, and a single SRU that took two uploads to get right I think? 16:11 I'm still reading the application, if anything. I have a concurrent meeting right now + just got back from holidays 16:12 Saw the highlight, indeed I can confirm that bluca does really well whatever he does. And TBH the ubuntu-specifics I told him he knows, and I'm very sure that he'd ask if he runs into something unknown. 16:12 yes - given cpaelzer has full upload rights, he does the uploads himself when we work on src:dpdk 16:12 In the SRU bug, it looks like your upload needing quite a bit of correcting on the Ubuntu-specific procedural details - like you didn't know them at all at the time. 16:12 That isn't a core-dev application where we expect that he knows all forward and backward, I'm rather confident he will do really well with what he applies for here 16:12 eg. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azure-cli/+bug/1897586/comments/4 16:12 Launchpad bug 1897586 in azure-cli (Ubuntu Focal) "azure-cli: global import of antlr4 for optional sub-feature" [Undecided, Fix Released] 16:13 I very much appreciate your contributions to Ubuntu here. 16:13 yes - all learning experiences :) 16:13 But the usual expectation is to see a track record of generally correct Ubuntu uploads with respect to Ubuntu-specific process. I don't see that at all here. 16:14 So feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken or missing something, but I would like to see that track record in the form of sponsored uploads before granting this request. 16:15 sure, it will require annoying cpaelzer a bit more :-P but it can happen 16:15 I guess bluca is a debian developer, right? 16:15 y 16:16 What I generally suggest is to deliberately make the new developer prepare all the uploads. 16:16 And get them sponsored. 16:16 That helps build up a demonstrated track record and helps give everyone else confidence about their understanding too. 16:16 I appreciate you're a DD so I have no concern about the quality of your work in general - this is just for the Ubuntu-specific bits. 16:17 the way we usually work on src:dpdk is that I upload to Debian and Christian to Ubuntu to make things faster - but there's no harm in me doing a few more sponsored uploads for the coming LTS changes and so on 16:17 so that's not a problem at all 16:18 I would prefer that as it would force you to do all the Ubuntu-specific bits yourself, which would demonstrate that you do understand them. 16:18 makes sense 16:19 Anyway, that's just my opinion. I only have one vote :) 16:20 And I'd like to reiterate that I very much appreciate and value your contribution. Just that I'd prefer the Ubuntu-specific bits that you do to be reviewed until you have a demonstrated record of getting them right, and that's what's missing at the moment. The mechanism we use for that is sponsorship :) 16:20 teward sil2100 any q from you? 16:20 bluca: regarding that: sorry if this was already answered somewhere, but did you before work on any of the packages from the Ubuntu POV? Like, checking proposed-migration for it, preparing the paperwork etc.? 16:22 in terms of ubuntu-specific paperwork, I worked on it directly myself only a couple of times that were linked above - getting some late bug fixes in 20.04 before it shipped, and getting a new backport in focal 16:23 bluca: to know a bit more if you'd be able to shepheard packages by yourself - once you upload some package to, let's say, Ubuntu jammy, and you see that your package is stuck in jammy-proposed and not moving: how would you investigate? 16:24 (maybe it was after it shipped? there was some bug in openconnect, memory is faint at this point) 16:25 *shepherd 16:26 it would depend if it's a new (binary: or source: new) package I guess - if it is, if I remember correctly it's at that step that it needs an ack, like ftp-new in debian 16:26 if it's not new, I'd go and look at the process on the wiki, as I don't remember it off the top of my head - and if I get stuck, I'd ask for help from the friendly collaborators on irc :-) 16:27 I can't remember if it's at that stage or another that autopkgtest gates migration, but that's one of the obvious things to look at 16:29 teward sil2100 rbasak any further questions or comments? 16:29 No more questions from me thanks 16:30 ok let's move to a vote then 16:30 none from me sil and robie asked wbat i was gonna ask 16:30 fyi still on via my phone so replies are slower 16:31 #vote Grant Luca Boccassi PPU rights 16:31 Please vote on: Grant Luca Boccassi PPU rights 16:31 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname') 16:31 -1 for reasons already stated. I'd very much appreciate you continuing to work with existing sponsors and build up that track record so that I can vote +1 for you in the near future! 16:31 -1 for reasons already stated. I'd very much appreciate you continuing to work with existing sponsors and build up that track record so that I can vote +1 for you in the near future! received from rbasak 16:31 +1 i voted on the ML already, with my reasoning 16:31 +1 i voted on the ML already, with my reasoning received from ddstreet 16:33 -1 after review of your answers I believe a little more time with sponsors to build your track record of uploads and process knowledge will help. I hope with that we can +1 you in the future, but for now I need to see more of a track record. 16:33 -1 after review of your answers I believe a little more time with sponsors to build your track record of uploads and process knowledge will help. I hope with that we can +1 you in the future, but for now I need to see more of a track record. received from teward 16:33 sil2100: 16:33 +0 sadly I have to abstain here. I still think that bluca should be able to do the right thing when needed, but maybe I'd like to see a bit more playing around with Ubuntu packages themselves, like watching proposed-migration - as this is always a bit of a different thing 16:33 +0 sadly I have to abstain here. I still think that bluca should be able to do the right thing when needed, but maybe I'd like to see a bit more playing around with Ubuntu packages themselves, like watching proposed-migration - as this is always a bit of a different thing received from sil2100 16:34 #endvote 16:34 Voting ended on: Grant Luca Boccassi PPU rights 16:34 Votes for: 1, Votes against: 2, Abstentions: 1 16:34 Motion denied 16:34 so *technically* the vote isn't denied, since we are missing 3 members 16:35 it's ok, I can do sponsored uploads for a couple of months and resubmit :) 16:35 but it would require a unanimous +1 from the remaining 3 members to approve, and 2 of them are not active anymore 16:35 yep i think that's the best course of action :) 16:35 thanks for the feedback! 16:35 which brings me to a q at AOB ;P 16:35 but i will wait for that one 16:35 i dont think we have anything else, the ML item was discussed at the top 16:35 #topic AOB 16:35 teward all yours! :) 16:36 given two of our members are inactive - one for well over a year at this point - do we need to start looking @ restaffing for the inactives? 16:37 or at least discuss how to handle this case. 16:37 since our recent rule for attendance was approved late last year, those 2 members will become 'inactive' at the first meeting in Feb 16:37 since we're here i bring it uo as a questio but not needing today's action 16:38 meaning, yes, we should plan to replace them ASAP after the 2022-02-07 meeting 16:38 especially since i am heading back in to the eye doc's chair now. o/ 16:38 bluca: from my POV, I guess even if you'd just take a look at our ProposedMigration process, try to play around with it a bit, it should be a +1 then ;) 16:38 (at least from me) 16:38 ddstreet: 👍 16:38 ddstreet: +1 16:39 teward i can add an action item for the 2022-02-07 mtg to schedule a new vote for their seats 16:40 #action ddstreet add item for 2022-02-07 meeting to schedule vote for 2 open seats 16:40 * meetingology ddstreet add item for 2022-02-07 meeting to schedule vote for 2 open seats 16:40 ddstreet: yep that will work 16:40 ok anythign else from anyone? 16:41 let's call it then 16:41 #endmeeting