== Meeting information ==
 * #ubuntu-meeting: DMB meeting, 29 Aug at 15:03 — 16:17 UTC
 * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-29-15.03.log.html]]



== Meeting summary ==

=== Review of previous action items ===
The discussion about "Review of previous action items" started at 15:03.


=== Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications ===
The discussion about "Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications" started at 15:10.

 * '''Daniel Watkins / ubuntu-cloud packageset''' (15:10)
 * '''Daniel Watkins / ubuntu-cloud packageset''' (15:11)
  * ''Vote:'' for Daniel Watkins ubuntu-cloud packageset upload rights (Carried)
  * ''ACTION:'' cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-dev
  * ''ACTION:'' cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-cloud packageset
  * ''ACTION:'' cyphermox to announce the result of Odd_Bloke's application

=== adding libdumbnet and zerofree to the ubuntu-cloud packageset ===
The discussion about "adding libdumbnet and zerofree to the ubuntu-cloud packageset" started at 15:30.

  * ''ACTION:'' sil2100 to add libdumbnet and zerofree to ubuntu-cloud packageset

=== Ubuntu Core Developer Applications ===
The discussion about "Ubuntu Core Developer Applications" started at 15:47.

 * '''Nish Aravamudan''' (15:47)
  * ''Vote:'' Nish Aravamudan for Ubuntu Core Developer (Carried)
  * ''ACTION:'' cyphermox to add nacc to ubuntu-coredev and announce result of application

=== AOB ===
The discussion about "AOB" started at 16:15.




== Vote results ==

 * [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-29-15.03.log.html#52 for Daniel Watkins ubuntu-cloud packageset upload rights]]
  * Motion carried (For/Against/Abstained 4/0/0)
   *  Voters rbasak, sil2100, cyphermox, bdmurray
 * [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-29-15.03.log.html#176 Nish Aravamudan for Ubuntu Core Developer]]
  * Motion carried (For/Against/Abstained 4/0/0)
   *  Voters bdmurray, sil2100, cyphermox, rbasak



== Action items, by person ==

 * cyphermox
  * cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-dev
  * cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-cloud packageset
  * cyphermox to announce the result of Odd_Bloke's application
  * cyphermox to add nacc to ubuntu-coredev and announce result of application
 * nacc
  * cyphermox to add nacc to ubuntu-coredev and announce result of application
 * Odd_Bloke
  * cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-dev
  * cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-cloud packageset
  * cyphermox to announce the result of Odd_Bloke's application
 * sil2100
  * sil2100 to add libdumbnet and zerofree to ubuntu-cloud packageset



== Done items ==

 * (none)



== People present (lines said) ==

 * bdmurray (39)
 * rbasak (38)
 * sil2100 (38)
 * cyphermox (32)
 * meetingology (26)
 * Odd_Bloke (23)
 * nacc (13)



== Full Log ==


 15:03 <bdmurray> #startmeeting DMB meeting

 15:03 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 29 15:03:22 2016 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 15:03 <meetingology> 

 15:03 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick

 15:03 <bdmurray> #topic Review of previous action items

 15:03 <sil2100> Thanks!

 15:03 <bdmurray> cyphermox: any news on the Mate package changes?

 15:05 <cyphermox> done!

 15:05 <cyphermox> I'm updating the packagesets now

 15:05 <bdmurray> Does anybody know if infinity made the changes for GunnarHj and Otto?

 15:06 <cyphermox> I don't know

 15:06 <cyphermox> but I could do the LP team changes for Otto if necessary

 15:06 <rbasak> I sorted Otto.

 15:06 <rbasak> I did all three of my actions on the agenda.

 15:07 <rbasak> Oh, sorry.

 15:07 <rbasak> There was an infinity task to actually add Otto's PPU.

 15:07 <rbasak> I haven't/can't do that.

 15:08 <rbasak> And it appears nobody has PPU to mariadb-10.0 yet.

 15:08 <bdmurray> Okay, lets leave infinity's two items on there but if cyphermox could sort out Ott's access that would be great.

 15:08 <rbasak> AIUI, it needs a TB member.

 15:09 <bdmurray> rbasak: Okay, I think infinity is out for the week.   I'll try to find one to help then.

 15:09 <rbasak> Thanks!

 15:10 <bdmurray> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications

 15:10 <rbasak> bdmurray: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-August/000951.html is relevant, if an alternative TB member is found.

 15:10 <bdmurray> #subtopic Daniel Watkins / ubuntu-cloud packageset

 15:10 <Odd_Bloke> o/

 15:11 <bdmurray> #subtopic Daniel Watkins / ubuntu-cloud packageset

 15:12 <bdmurray> Odd_Bloke: could you introduce your self and your work?

 15:12 <Odd_Bloke> Sure.

 15:13 <Odd_Bloke> I'm Dan Watkins, I'm a member of the Canonical Certified Public Cloud team.  We're responsible for the images produced at cloud-images.ubuntu.com, and the images that are published in to the major public clouds.

 15:14 <Odd_Bloke> We're a small team, so everyone is generally responsible for everything, but my backgroun is in Python, so I do a lot of work with cloud-init.

 15:14 <sil2100> Looking at your upload history, how do you feel about your experience with Debian packaging?

 15:14 <Odd_Bloke> The tools in the ubuntu-cloud pacakageset are used primarily in cloud applications, so are directly applicable to the work we do.

 15:15 <sil2100> Since most of your uploads were either patches or code-changes (in livecd-rootfs for instance)

 15:15 <Odd_Bloke> I'm not the most experienced packager, but I am confident in Python packages.

 15:15 <Odd_Bloke> WHich make up a decent chunk of these packages.

 15:17 <Odd_Bloke> I have done work in other packages, just not to the same extent.

 15:17 <Odd_Bloke> So I would expect to look for support in cases where I'm not fully confident in the changes that I'm looking to make.

 15:17 <Odd_Bloke> (I believe that people I've worked with would vouch for my ability to identify when I need to look for support. :)

 15:18 <sil2100> Fair enough, it's best to always ask when you're not sure how to deal with something

 15:19 <Odd_Bloke> Absolutely; we work with the kernel and foundations team a lot (for non-packaging work), so I'm used to liaising with others when necessary.

 15:20 <Odd_Bloke> Though, of course, the aim would be to reduce those cases over time. :)

 15:20 <bdmurray> rbasak, cyphermox: Do you have any questions?

 15:21 <rbasak> No questions.

 15:22 <rbasak> I've worked with Odd_Bloke over the years, most recently at a week-long sprint last month.

 15:22 <cyphermox> Odd_Bloke: do you know what is the current state of the archive? Given upload rights now, could you currently upload stuff without question?

 15:22 <rbasak> So I have an understanding of his technical capabilities, etc.

 15:22 <Odd_Bloke> cyphermox: Nope, we're feature-frozen at the moment.

 15:23 <cyphermox> right, that's really all I wanted to hear about :)

 15:23 <cyphermox> no more questions

 15:23 <sil2100> No questions here as well

 15:24 <bdmurray> #vote for Daniel Watkins ubuntu-cloud packageset upload rights

 15:24 <meetingology> Please vote on: for Daniel Watkins ubuntu-cloud packageset upload rights

 15:24 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)

 15:25 <rbasak> +1

 15:25 <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak

 15:25 <sil2100> Generally I would prefer to see a bit more uploads before giving PPU rights, but since the package-set is fairly small and not super-dangerous (especially that it's all managed by his team) + the endorsements, I would say:

 15:25 <sil2100> +1

 15:25 <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100

 15:25 <cyphermox> +1

 15:25 <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox

 15:25 <bdmurray> +1

 15:25 <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray

 15:26 <bdmurray> #endvote

 15:26 <meetingology> Voting ended on: for Daniel Watkins ubuntu-cloud packageset upload rights

 15:26 <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0

 15:26 <meetingology> Motion carried

 15:26 <cyphermox> sil2100: I beg to disagree about not so dangerous. some packages there have the potential of breaking boot for cloud images :)

 15:26 <rbasak> Yes, I did feel that the number of uploads was pretty low. I feel that he just made it over the line for PPU.

 15:26 <sil2100> Odd_Bloke: congratulations!

 15:26 <Odd_Bloke> \o/

 15:26 <sil2100> cyphermox: sure, but as said, it's all his job right? ;)

 15:26 <rbasak> (well, a limited packageset)

 15:26 <cyphermox> sil2100: well, yes

 15:27 <Odd_Bloke> Thanks all. :)

 15:27 <rbasak> bdmurray: please could you assign actions? The three things I think are required are: add to ~ubuntu-dev if not already; add to packageset ACL, and announce (to the news team and in the devel-permissions thread at a minimum).

 15:28 <bdmurray> rbasak: to myself?

 15:28 <cyphermox> or to me

 15:28 <sil2100> +1 on adding exact actions, this way we won't forget about stuff

 15:28 <rbasak> To whomever we nominate :)

 15:28 <rbasak> Yeah we agreed on assigning actions to avoid missing stuff a few meetings ago.

 15:28 <cyphermox> I'm volunteering.

 15:28 <bdmurray> #action cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-dev

 15:28 * meetingology cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-dev

 15:29 <bdmurray> #action cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-cloud packageset

 15:29 * meetingology cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-cloud packageset

 15:29 <rbasak> I don't mind three things being inside one action FWIW; I just identified three things in case they get split :)

 15:29 <bdmurray> #action cyphermox to announce the result of Odd_Bloke's application

 15:29 * meetingology cyphermox to announce the result of Odd_Bloke's application

 15:29 <rbasak> Thank you!

 15:30 <bdmurray> #topic adding libdumbnet and zerofree to the ubuntu-cloud packageset

 15:30 <bdmurray> Odd_Bloke: Could you talk about that briefly?

 15:31 <Odd_Bloke> These are packages that were pulled in to main as a result of open-vm-tools being pulled in to main.

 15:31 <Odd_Bloke> Which is in the ubuntu-cloud packageset.

 15:31 <Odd_Bloke> My team is the bug supervisor for bugs in them.

 15:31 <Odd_Bloke> So it seems like they naturally belong in the same packageset.

 15:31 <sil2100> For both of those, yes?

 15:32 <Odd_Bloke> Yep, for both.

 15:32 <sil2100> Since looking at the packages themselves I wasn't sure if those were typically cloud-oriented, one of them was a Recommends of open-vm-tools

 15:33 <sil2100> Also, I saw that basically almost all development for those happens in Debian

 15:33 <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, I don't anticipate these being a regular upload.

 15:34 <Odd_Bloke> But having upload rights to packages that our team has volunteered to maintain would make that job easier if a case ever did come up where an Ubuntu upload were needed. :)

 15:36 <bdmurray> Do we need to vote on this?  I'm okay with it.

 15:36 <rbasak> AIUI, it only needs one DMB member to +1 it. No vote required.

 15:37 <sil2100> Ok, if you guys are ok with it then I'll add those to the packageset

 15:38 <cyphermox> I'm not sure

 15:38 <cyphermox> I have a hard time deciding how zerofree is cloud-specific ?

 15:38 <sil2100> I originally wanted to do that but I didn't feel like it's the right way

 15:38 <sil2100> Hence my doubts above

 15:38 <sil2100> So I wanted to discuss it here

 15:39 <rbasak> Does a package need to be specific to the goals of a particular packageset as a requirement to add it to that packageset?

 15:39 <rbasak> Or would that just be a reason to have it in multiple packagesets?

 15:39 <Odd_Bloke> zerofree isn't cloud-specific, but it is used heavily in the production of cloud images.

 15:40 <cyphermox> a packageset usually has a definition that the packages should match to, at least to some degree

 15:40 <cyphermox> however, looking into the team, it looks like maybe it's fine

 15:40 <rbasak> "Description: Packages required to create, bootstrap, use or configure Ubuntu Cloud images and their derivatives."

 15:40 <cyphermox> Packages required to create, bootstrap, use or configure Ubuntu Cloud images and their derivatives

 15:40 <cyphermox> right

 15:40 <cyphermox> that's a pretty wide description though

 15:40 <sil2100> Yeah

 15:40 <rbasak> It is, but it appears that the DMB has previously voted on having that wide description.

 15:41 <rbasak> We would narrow it. That would require 4 +1s AIUI.

 15:41 <rbasak> *could

 15:41 <sil2100> I'm not sure also what policies we have, if we want to add packages to packagesets as-is or only if we see it makes sense, like, in anticipating actual uploads

 15:41 <rbasak> But I'm find with that description. Odd_Bloke's team needs that sort of breadth to be useful, IMHO.

 15:41 <cyphermox> no, I'm fine with how it currently is

 15:41 <rbasak> *fine

 15:42 <cyphermox> yeah

 15:42 <cyphermox> well, +1 for zerofree from me

 15:42 <cyphermox> just looking at libdumbnet now :)

 15:42 <cyphermox> +1 for that one too, I guess

 15:42 <rbasak> sil2100 raises a good point, but I see no reason to object if there isn't another team paying attention to this packages (and it appears to me that there isn't).

 15:43 <sil2100> Ok, if more experienced DMB members are ok then please add me an action item for that :)

 15:43 <cyphermox> actually, it's under core-dev and server too

 15:43 <rbasak> What is?

 15:44 <cyphermox> well, both zerofree and libdumbnet

 15:45 <rbasak> open-vm-tools is in the server seed.

 15:45 <rbasak> Which pulls in libdumbnet1 too.

 15:46 <cyphermox> it's all good; should we carry on?

 15:46 <rbasak> Though with my server team hat on, I can confirm that the server team looks to Odd_Bloke's team for any open-vm-tools related uploads.

 15:46 <rbasak> So really it's just his team.

 15:46 <bdmurray> #action sil2100 to add libdumbnet and zerofree to ubuntu-cloud packageset

 15:46 * meetingology sil2100 to add libdumbnet and zerofree to ubuntu-cloud packageset

 15:47 <cyphermox> well it really just was to see who had theoretically access to upload the packages

 15:47 <sil2100> Thanks!

 15:47 <bdmurray> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications

 15:47 <cyphermox> not necessarily who takes the responsibility

 15:47 <rbasak> Ah, OK.

 15:47 <bdmurray> #subtopic Nish Aravamudan

 15:48 <bdmurray> nacc: For the record could you introduce yourself and your work?

 15:48 <nacc> bdmurray: sure!

 15:49 <nacc> Hi everyone! My name is Nish Aravamudan and I'm a member of the Canonical Server team. I'm working with rbasak and cpaelzer on the release side of things for the Server Team, so helping work through bugs and issues across the distribution related to server.

 15:52 <nacc> I've had several uploads sponsored already, touching many packages, and have become the de facto responder to PHP7.0 bugs in 16.04 and on (and helping work through bugs in PHP5 as best I can in 14.04)

 15:53 <bdmurray> Does anybody have an questions for nacc?

 15:53 <sil2100> I like the number of uploads, although most of those I see were rebuilds/dep-changes for the php transition, right?

 15:53 <bdmurray> I've seen quite a few SRUs for 16.04, iirc.

 15:53 <nacc> sil2100: yeah, probably ~400 or so were related to the PHP transition, which was pretty large. Not all were rebuilds/dep-changes, some were syncs, and a few required patches (which then I sent to Debian)

 15:54 <nacc> bdmurray: yeah, some of the transition and fixes to the packages themselves have come via SRU

 15:54 <sil2100> nacc: since the list is so big (and I haven't had the time to check this), how many of those uploads you got sponsored were main packages?

 15:54 <rbasak> I have no questions for nacc (I work with him and we speak regularly).

 15:55 <cyphermox> no questions

 15:55 <sil2100> (I know php is, but yeah)

 15:55 <nacc> sil2100: a good question :) I have touched several packages in main (qemu, php itself, etc.). I apologize but I'm actually on vacation right now and not at my normal computer to search on.

 15:56 <sil2100> Just trying to see if core-dev is a necessity here or maybe MOTU would be good enough, but possibly php here is the 'thing'

 15:56 <sil2100> Ok, so I'll just drop one quick packaging question here:

 15:57 <sil2100> nacc: let's say you need to rename a binary package foo into foobar in the given release

 15:59 <sil2100> nacc: what would be the control field's you'd use to make that happen and not break stuff on upgrades?

 15:59 <sil2100> *fields

 16:00 <nacc> sil2100: i have not done that yet myself, but I believe the general method involves dummy/transitional package named foo that depends (I think) on foobar. You'd possibly also want foobar to conflict with foo? I  probably would spend some time consulting the debian manual on this and other developers to be sure :)

 16:02 <sil2100> nacc: yeah, that's a good direction, breaks is better suited here generally instead of conflicts

 16:02 <sil2100> And remember you'd need a Replaces too

 16:02 <sil2100> But you'd find that in the debian manual

 16:03 <nacc> sil2100: ah ok; that makes sense; and of course on the replaces, sorry for forgetting that!

 16:05 <bdmurray> sil2100: anything else?

 16:05 <sil2100> All from me

 16:05 <bdmurray> #vote Nish Aravamudan for Ubuntu Core Developer

 16:05 <meetingology> Please vote on: Nish Aravamudan for Ubuntu Core Developer

 16:05 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)

 16:06 <bdmurray> +1

 16:06 <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray

 16:08 <cyphermox> +1

 16:08 <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox

 16:11 <bdmurray> sil2100, rbasak: ?

 16:11 <sil2100> One moment, still thinking, give me 2 more minutes

 16:12 <sil2100> +1

 16:12 <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100

 16:12 <rbasak> +1 I would have preferred to recuse myself, but given that everyone else here is unanimous, I'm adding my +1 so that we have a quorate vote

 16:12 <meetingology> +1 I would have preferred to recuse myself, but given that everyone else here is unanimous, I'm adding my +1 so that we have a quorate vote received from rbasak

 16:13 <bdmurray> #endvote

 16:13 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Nish Aravamudan for Ubuntu Core Developer

 16:13 <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0

 16:13 <meetingology> Motion carried

 16:13 <bdmurray> nacc: Congratulations

 16:13 <sil2100> nacc: congratulations! But please, whenever in doubt consult things with more experienced core-devs

 16:14 <nacc> Thank you everyone!

 16:14 <nacc> sil2100: absolutely!

 16:14 <nacc> sil2100: I plan on being very cautious :)

 16:14 <bdmurray> cyphermox: Do you mind also taking care of the changes for nacc?

 16:14 <sil2100> You're doing a great job in overall but I was still a bit weary of giving so much power to someone fairly, well, unexperienced

 16:14 <cyphermox> no problem

 16:14 <nacc> sil2100: totally understood :)

 16:15 <bdmurray> #action cyphermox to add nacc to ubuntu-coredev and announce result of application

 16:15 * meetingology cyphermox to add nacc to ubuntu-coredev and announce result of application

 16:15 <bdmurray> #topic AOB

 16:15 <sil2100> But seeing all your work on php, starting off with MOTU might have been a bit of a waste of time - also, rbasak and slangasek did endorse you with details

 16:16 <nacc> sil2100: yeah, i've worked closely (and plan on continuing to do so) with both of them

 16:16 <bdmurray> anything else?

 16:17 <bdmurray> Okay, then.

 16:17 <bdmurray> #endmeeting



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