17:01 <dholbach> #startmeeting
17:01 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan  7 17:01:42 2016 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
17:01 <meetingology> 
17:01 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
17:01 <dholbach> hey seb128 :)
17:01 <jcastro> is this for the membership meeting?
17:02 <dholbach> no, CC meeting
17:02 <marcoceppi> o/
17:02 <dholbach> meeting up with Desktop team and later on with the DMB
17:02 <dholbach> #catching up with the Desktop team
17:02 <dholbach> #topic catching up with the Desktop team
17:02 <dholbach> seb128: how are you doing? :)
17:02 <seb128> hey!
17:03 <seb128> Laney should be around as well for desktop ;-)
17:03 <seb128> doing well! what about you?
17:03 <dholbach> great, thanks :)
17:03 <dholbach> how are things in the desktop team? how's 16.04 shaping up?
17:03 <seb128> things are looking quite nice
17:04 <seb128> we are mostly done with updates/merges/features landing
17:04 <mhall119> some big things this cycle right
17:04 <mhall119> ?
17:04 <Laney> hi
17:04 <seb128> not big/disruptives features
17:04 <seb128> though some interesting bits
17:04 <mhall119> seb128: is there still work going on to support Snappy app installation?
17:04 <seb128> but mostly bugfixing and polish
17:04 <dholbach> big icons on the desktop, right?
17:04 <dholbach> SCNR :)
17:04 <seb128> dholbach, indeed!
17:04 <seb128> like them right?
17:04 <seb128> mhall119, no idea, that's a question for the snappy team
17:04 <dholbach> errrrmm
17:05 <seb128> they are the ones working on that
17:05 <seb128> mvo was more specifically
17:05 <mhall119> seb128: oh, I thought you guys on will's team were working on that
17:05 <dholbach> let's say I haven't got used to them yet :)
17:05 <seb128> mhall119, no
17:05 <mhall119> ok
17:05 <seb128> dholbach, we changed the default size to be smaller, might not apply to those who upgraded/loaded a session with the old version though
17:05 <czajkowski> aloha :)
17:05 <seb128> but users upgrading now should have less "in your face" ones ;-)
17:05 <seb128> hey czajkowski!
17:06 <mhall119> seb128: have the online-scopes changes all landed and settled?
17:06 <dholbach> oh ok... so I have to apply some magic somewhere to get it fixed?
17:06 <seb128> mhall119, I think so
17:06 <didrocks> (yes, just a server-side part still needed by the online service team)
17:06 <seb128> there were some server side changes pending iirc but I didn't check on those
17:06 <seb128> didrocks, ^ do you know what's the status?
17:06 <seb128> oh
17:06 <seb128> he snapped me :p
17:06 <seb128> didrocks, thanks ;-)
17:07 <didrocks> https://twitter.com/didrocks/status/676759237100486660
17:07 <didrocks> btw ;)
17:07 <mhall119> is chipaca the person to ask about the server-side still?
17:07 <didrocks> mhall119: I guess he's part of the guys who should look at it, yeah
17:07 <seb128> dholbach, just move the slider in the icon/list icon (top right corner) to small, if that's still too big then we need to do more
17:07 <didrocks> should be a 10 minutes change on the server, still needs to happen though :)
17:07 <seb128> didrocks, I didn't know you were using twitter ;-)
17:08 <marcoceppi> \o/ remote search
17:08 <didrocks> seb128: started recently (but also updated on g+, as usual)
17:08 <dholbach> I'm not quite sure which slider, but let's take that offline, I guess :)
17:08 <seb128> yeah
17:09 <mhall119> seb128: didrocks: Laney: who do you have in the community that is working with your team? What do you think we can do to increase that community participation?
17:09 <dholbach> is the desktop team involved in any unity8 bits or supporting other teams in that regard?
17:09 <seb128> dholbach, not much at the moment, we are focussing on the LTS
17:09 <seb128> we are there for other teams when they need us though
17:10 <seb128> and still look at issues/help on some specific bits
17:10 <Laney> darkxst and mitya57 and sometimes Noskcaj
17:10 <Laney> probably some others
17:10 <seb128> no regular contributors to Ubuntu Desktop only
17:11 <seb128> but Ubuntu GNOME is doing well and share components
17:11 <Laney> those guys are getting upload rights for themselves
17:11 <Laney> Tim joined the desktop team
17:11 <Laney> which is nice
17:11 <mhall119> \o/
17:11 <Laney> but it's still following the general trend
17:12 <Laney> not as bad as MOTU though
17:12 <mhall119> general trend of declining participation?
17:12 <Laney> yes
17:12 <Laney> declined probably
17:12 <mhall119> the guys who are participating,what kind of things are they doing?
17:12 <Laney> it's already a few years old thing
17:13 <Laney> usually things motivated by flavour needs
17:13 <Laney> updates, patches and stuff
17:14 <mhall119> patches to apps, gtk, something else?
17:14 <dholbach> and the coordination there is going well?
17:15 <Laney> it's not hard to coordinate with 2-3 people
17:15 <Laney> patches to applications and libraries, yeah
17:15 <Laney> mitya57 learned how to work the CI train too
17:15 <dholbach> right... but in the past there were issues because some decision on ubuntu desktop blocked a flavour, etc
17:15 <dholbach> I was interested in hearing if that's been an issue recently
17:16 <Laney> More because the desktop team was making breaking changes I would guess
17:16 <Laney> I think we don't do so much of that any more
17:16 <seb128> we updated most of the components this cycle, including the apps we blocked for some cycles like gedit
17:16 <Laney> but there are still some annoying areas
17:17 <dholbach> or one team needing newer components than the other
17:17 <Laney> like we maintain a need for some UI changes which is a drag
17:17 <mhall119> I'm glad to hear that the community guys are getting upload rights, are you encouraging them all to progress towards becoming Ubuntu Developers?
17:17 <seb128> it's still somewhat conflicting needs but we are dealing with it ok
17:17 <dholbach> ok, that's good to hear
17:18 <Laney> and I've just today been looking at some changes to get us off an old webkit version
17:18 <dholbach> <3
17:18 <Laney> I suppose that interests the flavours because we have to revert patches
17:18 <dholbach> the future is here :-)
17:18 <Laney> but I wouldn't say there has been a lot of community energy around it really
17:18 <czajkowski> :D
17:19 <czajkowski> Laney: what would you like to see to improve this ?
17:19 <czajkowski> what can we do to drive some life into it ?
17:19 <Laney> UDS? :)
17:19 <mhall119> Laney: come to UbuCon Summit :)
17:19 <marcoceppi> ubucon!
17:19 <sgclark> ahh yes that is soon
17:19 <czajkowski> mhall119: but what about EU, when do we get to have them over here in the same level?
17:20 <Laney> I'm not invited though
17:20 <dholbach> czajkowski: one step after the other
17:20 <Laney> and neither do most of the community have the oppportunity to apply for sponsorship as far as I know
17:20 <mhall119> czajkowski: UbuCon EU will hopefully become that
17:20 <Laney> anyway I was being a bit facetious
17:20 <dholbach> Laney: apply for sponsorship
17:21 <dholbach> let's take a step at a time - that we get a big group of people together again after many years of no UDS-like event at all is a good step and something dpm and other put quite a lot of work into
17:21 <Laney> I guess we're not as exciting as we might have been once? Or people moved on for whatever reasons
17:21 <mhall119> Laney: why do theynot have the opportunity to apply for sponsorship?
17:21 <Laney> Somehow attract people back
17:22 <sgclark> Well, I think it is larger than that, I know we are feeling a pinch from lack of new contributors at Kubuntu
17:22 <dholbach> did the desktop team add tasks to the google code in this time?
17:22 <seb128> yes
17:22 <Laney> yeah, didrocks can probably tell you how that went
17:22 <dholbach> nice... how did that go?
17:22 * Laney didn't hear
17:22 <seb128> didrocks and willcooke have been looking at desktop contributions
17:22 <didrocks> we had quite some contributions (and I'm still helping people as we speak in separate channels :))
17:22 <seb128> they seemed to be positive
17:22 * dholbach hugs didrocks
17:23 <sgclark> awesome
17:23 <didrocks> right now, we have 5 tasks that are closed (not trivial ones)
17:23 * didrocks hugs dholbach back
17:23 <didrocks> 3 in serious progress
17:23 <didrocks> some other opened, with less traction, but we'll see :)
17:23 <dholbach> and they're hanging out with you guys in the desktop channel already? :)
17:23 <Laney> mhall119: well maybe I missed it but I didn't see an invitation to apply anywhere
17:23 <didrocks> dholbach: unfortunatly, they either stay on the google-ubuntu channel or use PM
17:24 <didrocks> (or just the web interface)
17:24 <mhall119> Laney: the process is different from UDS sponsorship, if you missed it that means we didn't do a very good job advertising it
17:24 <mhall119> dholbach: ^^ we should make a note to improve that for the next big UbuCon
17:24 <dholbach> makes sense
17:24 <dholbach> it's part of the ubuntu community donations fund
17:25 <mhall119> maybe bake it into ubucon.org at some point
17:25 <dholbach> http://community.ubuntu.com/help-information/funding/
17:25 <mhall119> Laney: ^^ for future reference
17:25 <Laney> I know about that fund
17:25 <mhall119> that's what is being used to sponsor community people to go to UbuCon Summit
17:25 <Laney> but not that you could use it to apply for sponsorship to this thing
17:26 <Laney> ok
17:26 <mhall119> it can be used to apply for travel expenses to any event where your presence will benefit Ubuntu
17:26 <dholbach> right, that could have been more explicit - people used the fund in the past to get to conferences
17:26 <Laney> I would not like to use that for myself as an employee though, that feels strange to me
17:26 <mhall119> Laney: yeah, I think all the Canonical employees going are being paid for by Canonical
17:27 <mhall119> but it can (and should) be used by employees for community-oriented work
17:28 <mhall119> ok, getting back on topic since we have only a couple minutes left, what can we change or improve to get more people excited about participating in the desktop's development?
17:29 <seb128> unsure, that question doesn't feel like specific to desktop
17:29 <Laney> umm so I have one project that we'll want to get some help on
17:29 <dholbach> do we have some more smaller tasks you could hand out to new contributors?
17:29 <dholbach> Laney: which one?
17:29 <Laney> if and when we switch to GNOME software there will be a new source for app metadata
17:29 <mhall119> Google Code-In sounds like it's getting some fresh faces, which is great, we should encourage them to stick around and work towards becoming Ubuntu Members and eventually Ubuntu Developers
17:29 <Laney> which is different and in some ways more strict than app-install-data which softare-center uses now
17:30 <Laney> some things will need fixing and we'll eventually have a website listing them
17:30 <Laney> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2015/12/msg00004.html
17:30 <sgclark> do we have like a junior jobs listing anywhere?
17:31 <dholbach> so this metadata needs to be compiled?
17:31 <sgclark> probably just a file right?
17:31 <sgclark> xml, yaml?
17:31 <Laney> we'll have a list of errors
17:31 <Laney> things like "Icon not found"
17:32 <Laney> *or* for things that have no metadata at all people will be able to write an appstream metadata file to provide that
17:32 <Laney> and ideally supply it to the upstream
17:32 <dholbach> Laney: if you want help organising the initiative, you can write a mail to ubuntu-community-team@lists.u.c
17:32 <mhall119> so it sounds like we need an initiative like we did years ago to get larger icons and Quicklists for apps
17:32 <dholbach> I'm sure there's going to be a few folks who can help out organising this
17:32 <sgclark> I would be interested in helping with that myself. And promoting it.
17:33 <dholbach> <3
17:33 <Laney> https://appstream.debian.org/html/sid/main/issues/index.html
17:33 <mhall119> Laney: the community team can help with this, certainly.
17:33 <Laney> I know that Kubunbu want to use this same data ;-)
17:33 <sgclark> exactly lol
17:33 <dholbach> great :-D
17:33 <Laney> sgclark: yay
17:33 <dholbach> Laney: thanks for looking into that!
17:33 <Laney> mhall119: cool, I thought you would find it interesting
17:33 <mhall119> Laney: will we have to maintain our own set of ths metadata, or can we get the info into debian and then just import it?
17:34 <Laney> it is shareable
17:34 <Laney> upstreams themselves should ship it really
17:34 <sgclark> yeah it needs to be submitted upstream
17:34 <Laney> see the many blogs and posts by Richard Hughes
17:34 <mhall119> perfect, we'll probably need people to help getting it through Debian's processes, since they are different than Ubuntu's
17:34 <Laney> fedora started this last year or even the year before
17:34 <sgclark> like for KDE I am adding it as a test in the CI
17:35 <Laney> we may even want to insist that they go upstream
17:35 <mhall119> Laney: for the Unity Quicklists, we would accept patches in Ubuntu if they were accepted upstream, so we didn't have to wait for everything to flow downstream before we got them, will that be the case here too?
17:35 <Laney> because one benefit might be that we stop promoting unmaintained applications
17:35 <sgclark> I agree
17:35 <Laney> anyway, not decided yet
17:36 <dholbach> depending on the timing it might be acceptable to ship a delta for some time, right?
17:36 <dholbach> at least for the "important" apps(?)
17:36 <sgclark> probably
17:36 <seb128> yeah, it's likely that not all apps get releases between the start of the effort and the LTS
17:37 <seb128> or that the new versions don't get in Ubuntu because ff
17:37 <dholbach> ok
17:37 <dholbach> nice initiative :)
17:37 <Laney> definitely for maintained things
17:37 <Laney> questonable for long tail
17:37 <Laney> it is a discussion to have
17:37 <mhall119> seb128: Laney: ok, as soon as you're ready to start planning for it, bring in the community team and we'll help with documentation and outreach, if you guys can help with the technical bits and working with upstreams
17:37 <dholbach> thanks a lot for your hard work on the desktop!
17:38 <Laney> will do, thanks!
17:38 <mhall119> yes, thank you all for your continued work on the desktop and with the community
17:38 <seb128> thanks :-)
17:38 <sgclark> thank you for your hard work!
17:39 <dholbach> brilliant... any more questions for our desktop heroes?
17:39 <mhall119> I'm good
17:39 <sgclark> good here.
17:39 <dholbach> ok cool - thanks a lot for making time everyone!
17:39 <seb128> thank you for the invitation ;-)
17:39 <dholbach> do we have folks from the DMB here as well? :)
17:40 <dholbach> #topic Catching up with the DMB
17:40 <dholbach> don't we have a dmb-irc-ping thing? :)
17:41 <Laney> !dmb-ping
17:41 <ubottu> cyphermox, infinity, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
17:41 <dholbach> :-)
17:41 <xnox> ?
17:41 <Laney> maybe someone else could take this half :-)
17:41 <xnox> hi =)
17:41 <Laney> ah, unlucky
17:41 * Laney runs
17:41 <dholbach> the CC is catching up with the DMB :-)
17:41 <xnox> oh
17:41 <dholbach> how are things?
17:42 * xnox probably forgot to add the invite to my calendar.
17:42 <xnox> we have some applicants, we approved some, things are going ok i guess.
17:42 <dholbach> well, we're glad you guys are still here :-)
17:42 <xnox> i think there was more, and higher-level (motu/core) applicants lately, which is good.
17:43 <dholbach> yeah, I noticed some more emails on the mailing list
17:43 <dholbach> and not all of them were Canonical folks, which is nice to see as well
17:43 <dholbach> I wonder if it's because more teams like the desktop team encourage their contributors to apply?
17:44 <dholbach> so would you say that the process is fine-tuned and the machinery is well-oiled enough?
17:45 <dholbach> I think I remember that some discussions on the mailing list took a bit longer in the past - do you know if that is still the case?
17:47 <xnox> i don't think much changed to be honest. if everyone is present at the meeting, it goes quickly. things deffered to mailing list, are kind of doomed to take forever =)
17:47 <dholbach> do you have a longer queue there right now?
17:48 <mhall119> are you seeing any obstacles that potential applicants are facing that might stop them from applying?
17:51 <xnox> i don't think our queue is too long.
17:51 <xnox> it did grow a little due to holidays, but it is reasonable.
17:51 <dholbach> ok, that's good to hear
17:52 <czajkowski> that's good!
17:52 <xnox> obstacles... none that i'm aware per se.
17:52 <dholbach> it might be a bit daunting still I could imagine
17:53 <dholbach> I think I'll send a mail to the devel list asking people to consider encouraging folks whose uploads they've sponsored - just as a reminder
17:53 <mhall119> and encouraging existing developers to write testimonials for applicants
17:53 <czajkowski> aye I think part of the thing to do is to remmeber to encourage people
17:53 <czajkowski> and that reaching out to people makes a big difference to encourage people to apply
17:53 <dholbach> yeah
17:54 <dholbach> is there anything else you feel the CC could help with?
17:56 <dholbach> or any questions you have?
17:57 <dholbach> hum...
17:58 <czajkowski> any other comments?
17:58 <dholbach> I feel like this was probably not the best time for the DMB folks O:-)
17:59 <sgclark> that is my feeling as well lol
17:59 <czajkowski> hard to get the best time for all
17:59 <seb128> you used your Laney card in the first half with desktop :p
17:59 <czajkowski> but it was nice to catch up with folks
17:59 <mhall119> it's like they're doing work or something, geez
17:59 <czajkowski> thank you :)
17:59 <dholbach> seb128: I know :)
18:00 <mhall119> thank you xnox and the rest of the DMB
18:00 <dholbach> ok, maybe we can move that part to email... if you have anything, let us know - we're happy to help if we can
18:00 <dholbach> and thanks for your work on the DMB!
18:00 <sgclark> thank you all for your hard work
18:00 <xnox> ;-)
18:01 <dholbach> I just posted a note on @ubuntudev asking sponsors to encourage folks they've worked with :)
18:01 <dholbach> #topic Any other business?
18:01 <dholbach> I checked the agenda and there's nothing else on there, but does anyone have anything they'd like to talk about?
18:02 <sgclark> I do not, still trying to catch up after holidays.
18:02 <mhall119> can we promote UbuCon again? I've gone 10 minutes without doing that :)
18:02 <czajkowski> mhall119: every time you mention UbuCon you need to do 10 squats!
18:02 <mhall119> :/
18:02 <dholbach> mhall119 will be the squat meister next time we see him :)
18:03 <mhall119> I'll decline that title, if it's all the same to you
18:03 <dholbach> mhall119: I wanted to write another blog post about it
18:03 <czajkowski> LOL
18:03 <sgclark> lol
18:03 <mhall119> thanks everyone for attending, as always the CC is available anytime we're needed, just give us a ping or an email
18:04 <dholbach> ok...... looks like no other topics
18:04 <dholbach> thanks a lot everyone for attending!
18:04 <czajkowski> or mention the word Ubucon and it summons mhall119 :)
18:04 <sgclark> thanks for my first catchup
18:04 <dholbach> :)
18:04 <dholbach> #endmeeting