== Meeting information ==
 * #ubuntu-meeting: ubuntu-server-team, 29 Sep at 16:01 — 16:29 UTC
 * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-09-29-16.01.log.html]]



== Meeting summary ==

=== Review ACTION points from previous meeting ===
The discussion about "Review ACTION points from previous meeting" started at 16:01.


=== Wily Development ===
The discussion about "Wily Development" started at 16:02.

  * ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule 
 * '''Release Bugs''' (16:04)
  * ''LINK:'' http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server 

=== Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou) ===
The discussion about "Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)" started at 16:05.


=== Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara) ===
The discussion about "Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)" started at 16:07.


=== Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges) ===
The discussion about "Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)" started at 16:08.


=== Upcoming Call For Papers ===
The discussion about "Upcoming Call For Papers" started at 16:09.


=== Ubuntu Server Team Events ===
The discussion about "Ubuntu Server Team Events" started at 16:09.


=== Open Discussion ===
The discussion about "Open Discussion" started at 16:10.


=== Announce next meeting date, time and chair ===
The discussion about "Announce next meeting date, time and chair" started at 16:11.

  * ''LINK:'' https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-w-networkd-vs-ifupdown 
  * ''LINK:'' https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-w-networkd-vs-ifupdown is the blueprint, and /usr/share/doc/systemd/README.Debian.gz on your wily system describes how to change



== Vote results ==




== Done items ==

 * (none)



== People present (lines said) ==

 * gaughen (60)
 * smoser (46)
 * caribou (10)
 * rharper (10)
 * rcj (6)
 * meetingology (3)
 * thedac (2)
 * arges (2)
 * coreycb (1)
 * smb (1)
 * ubottu (1)
 * matsubara (1)



== Full Log ==


 16:01 <gaughen> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team

 16:01 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 29 16:01:36 2015 UTC.  The chair is gaughen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 16:01 <meetingology> 

 16:01 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick

 16:01 <gaughen> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting

 16:02 <gaughen> I don't see any action points from last time.

 16:02 <rharper> yay, we finally moved on from asking rharper about numad

 16:02 <gaughen> #topic Wily Development

 16:02 <gaughen> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule

 16:02 <gaughen> ha

 16:02 <gaughen> is thedac on the list to run this meeting?

 16:03 <coreycb> gaughen, no but he probably should be

 16:03 <thedac> so far I have hidden away

 16:03 <gaughen> final beta has passed

 16:03 <gaughen> thedac, I'm putting you on the list. I'm kind that way.

 16:03 <gaughen> I'll put you on the end... but before me ;-)

 16:03 <thedac> I am reconsidering our friendship :p

 16:03 <gaughen> final release is in less than a month - AAAAH!

 16:04 <gaughen> final freeze is Oct 15

 16:04 <gaughen> #subtopic Release Bugs

 16:04 <gaughen> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server

 16:05 <gaughen> don't think there's anything worth mentioning  on the list

 16:05 <gaughen> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)

 16:05 <gaughen> caribou, you have anything to say?

 16:05 <gaughen> beuller

 16:05 <caribou> hi ?

 16:05 <gaughen> hello

 16:05 <gaughen> any bugs you want to mention

 16:05 <caribou> yes, bug #1496317 is up for review

 16:05 <ubottu> bug 1496317 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu) "kexec fails with OOM killer with the current crashkernel=128 value" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496317

 16:05 <caribou> apw is supposed to look at it soon

 16:05 <smoser> oh nice.

 16:06 <caribou> tl;dr create smaller initrd.img in /boot/kdump

 16:06 <arges> caribou: if it gets uploaded before tomorrow, I'll sru-review it : )

 16:06 <caribou> arges: then go & harrass apw about it :)

 16:06 <caribou> arges: I'd like a few eyes on it. Adding stuff to /boot can be seen as invasive

 16:07 <arges> yea

 16:07 <caribou> gaughen: other than that I'm good

 16:07 <gaughen> caribou, cool! thank you!

 16:07 <gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)

 16:07 <gaughen> matsubara, any QA topics?

 16:07 <matsubara> gaughen, hi, nothing new from me

 16:07 <caribou> smoser: debdiff is in the case if you want to have a look at it

 16:08 <gaughen> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)

 16:08 <smb> Nothing to see here, move along... Please...

 16:09 <gaughen> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers

 16:09 <gaughen> any papers?

 16:09 <gaughen> topics?

 16:09 <gaughen> moving on

 16:09 <gaughen> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events

 16:10 <gaughen> Openstack Summit in Tokyo is coming up

 16:10 <gaughen> there is also Linux Con EU next week

 16:10 <gaughen> several folks are presenting  on LXD and cloud-init

 16:10 <gaughen> anything else?

 16:10 <gaughen> #topic Open Discussion

 16:11 <gaughen> anything?

 16:11 <rharper> crickets

 16:11 <gaughen> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair

 16:11 <gaughen> next week, same time, same place

 16:11 <smoser> oh.

 16:11 <gaughen> chair will be

 16:11 <smoser> hold on.

 16:11 <smoser> lets go back to open discussion

 16:12 <gaughen> arosales

 16:12 <smoser> i want to float one thing

 16:12 <gaughen> okay, go back

 16:12 <gaughen> go for it

 16:12 <smoser> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-w-networkd-vs-ifupdown

 16:12 <gaughen> do I need to switch topics officially?

 16:12 <smoser> nah

 16:12 <smoser> server has been asked what we think of a switch to networkd in 15.10

 16:12 <smoser> "by default"

 16:12 <rharper> how can we do that now ?

 16:12 <smoser> i wish rbasak was here, but interested in anyone's thoughts.

 16:13 <smoser> :)

 16:13 <gaughen> rcj, does this impact cloud-images?

 16:13 <smoser> that is the expected response.

 16:13 <rharper> maybe at the start of a cycle

 16:13 <gaughen> smoser, isn't it a wee bit late

 16:13 <smoser> well, the argument for it goes like this: i'd rather fail horribly now

 16:13 <gaughen> rcj, I expect the answer is yes

 16:13 <smoser> it does affect cloud images, yes.

 16:14 <smoser> not a *ton*, but it it would.

 16:14 <gaughen> smoser, would we have enough time to recover if we failed horribly now?

 16:14 <rharper> smoser: hopefully the argument is: networkd fixes the following issues we have with ifupdown

 16:14 <smoser> the bigger thing is anythign that writes (or reads) files in /etc/network/interfaces

 16:14 <rharper> if the size of that list is not large, it's hard to argue that it's worth the trouble in the first place

 16:14 <rcj> We have cloud image specifics around the interfaces files so we'll break clouds

 16:15 <smoser> a 1x1 static change is easy enough.

 16:15 <rcj> we have things that generate interfaces on the fly

 16:15 <smoser> honestly, i wouldnt expect the cloud images to be terribly effected.

 16:15 <smoser> oh?

 16:15 <smoser> rcj, where do you have such things ?

 16:15 <rcj> for cloud providers that have dynamic networking and multiple devices

 16:16 <rcj> Joyent is one

 16:16 <smoser> ok. so i'm very interested in that... can you give examples ?

 16:16 <gaughen> probably not here

 16:16 <smoser> (to be clear, i'm not advocating for this, but rather playing devils advocate).

 16:16 <rcj> But I don't know what tools like walinuxagent and gce tools are doing for certain either.

 16:16 <gaughen> what does non-devils advocate smoser think is the right thing to do here?

 16:17 <smoser> rcj, can you give a link to code that does "dynamic config" ?

 16:17 <rcj> smoser, I don't know that I'll find it quickly with Ben out

 16:18 <smoser> gaughen, the non-devils advocate thinks this is very late in a cycle.  and also even possibly very late in an LTS cycle (ie, as in now is late for *16.04*)

 16:18 <rharper> smoser: the most damning discussion I've seen is that networkd hasn't been (in the past at least) focused on server configuration, so things like parallel interface bringup or even ordered interface bring up (think bonds) have been addressed

 16:18 <rharper> the ifupdown + bonding threads brought up the issue and networkd folks, no we don't do that, lemme see if I can find the link

 16:18 <smoser> well, this would be a server install (and cloud image) config.

 16:18 <gaughen> smoser, can we do a test build with it and see what falls out?

 16:18 <rharper> but if we don't get equivalent function, and bug fixing, it's hard to argue that we should switch (and certainly harder late in the cycle)

 16:19 <smoser> rharper, i think that you're mistaken. in that networkd *is* server centric.

 16:20 <smoser> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-w-networkd-vs-ifupdown is the blueprint, and /usr/share/doc/systemd/README.Debian.gz on your wily system describes how to change

 16:20 <smoser> pitti has done a good job of documenting that.

 16:20 <rharper> I'll track down the emails I read;

 16:21 <smoser> for easier reference, that README.Debian.gz is http://paste.ubuntu.com/12613789/

 16:21 <smoser> i agree, rharper that lack of bond is certainly a stop ship issue.

 16:21 <smoser> gaughen, so yeah, you could reasonably easily "see what falls out".

 16:22 <smoser> so the big fallout is in anything that is reading or writing /etc/network/interfaces{,.d/*}

 16:22 <smoser> which is curtin for one

 16:22 <smoser> and also juju

 16:22 <smoser> i'm interested i knowing anything else that people are aware of.

 16:22 <smoser> largely this is a fact finding expedition

 16:22 <smoser> also relevant is resolvconf -> systemd-resolvconf would be probably done

 16:23 <gaughen> smoser, if we're still in fact finding mode that means to me we're not ready to pull the trigger

 16:23 <gaughen> and thus too damn late for wily

 16:23 <gaughen> my 2 cents

 16:23 <smoser> the general reason for the interest in networkd is the same as that of systemd

 16:23 <smoser> its not something you generally *chose*

 16:24 <smoser> but something that is chosen for you. and you have to justify the cost of maintaining the other option (ifupdown-/etc/network/interfaces) indefinitely.

 16:25 * caribou likes the fact that this discussion is under Announce next meeting date :)

 16:25 <gaughen> :-)

 16:25 <gaughen> so anything else to talk about on this topic. smoser what's the next step?

 16:26 <smoser> thus, if it is inevitable, then dropping ENI/ifupdown (which people love to hate also) by 16.04 , means we get to drop support for ifupdown 2 years sooner.

 16:26 <smoser> does anyone have other examples of readers or writers of /etc/network/interfaces ?

 16:27 <smoser> the other one that I know of is cloud-initramfs-dyn-netconf (which writes /etc/network/interfaces style file based on 'ip=' arguments on the cmdline).  And also open-iscsi is probably somehow affected (as it has to not bounce network interface of the root iscsi device).

 16:27 <smoser> anyone have anything else?

 16:27 <gaughen> smoser, should this one be emailed about on ubuntu-server?

 16:28 <gaughen> *crickets*

 16:28 <gaughen> okay I'm declaring this mtg done

 16:28 <smoser> done

 16:28 <smoser> thanks.

 16:28 <gaughen> until next week, same time, same place.

 16:29 <gaughen> thank you smoser for your little topic

 16:29 <caribou> thanks gaughen

 16:29 <gaughen> #endmeeting



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