== Meeting information == * #ubuntu-meeting: Developer Membership Board Meeting 2014-11-17, 17 Nov at 15:10 — 16:05 UTC * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-11-17-15.10.log.html]] == Meeting summary == ''ACTION:'' xnox to send micahg reminder about meeting and whether he still plans to participate in them === Core Developer Application mitya57 === The discussion about "Core Developer Application mitya57" started at 15:12. * ''Vote:'' should mitya57 be granted core developer status in Ubuntu? (Carried) === Any other business === The discussion about "Any other business" started at 15:31. === Extend DD PPU to cover DM too (Laney) === The discussion about "Extend DD PPU to cover DM too (Laney)" started at 15:33. * ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess * ''HELP:'' (xnox, 15:35) * ''Vote:'' Extend DD PPU requirement to cover DMs too (Carried) === Any Other Business take #2 === The discussion about "Any Other Business take #2" started at 15:51. * ''ACTION:'' cjwatson: as a returning officer: given 7 voters, and "Votes for:4 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0" collected to date, is the outcome without a doubt or do we need extra +1 votes? == Vote results == * [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-11-17-15.10.log.html#143 Extend DD PPU requirement to cover DMs too]] * Motion carried (For/Against/Abstained 4/1/0) * Voters stgraber, xnox, Laney, ScottK, bdrung_work * [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-11-17-15.10.log.html#58 should mitya57 be granted core developer status in Ubuntu?]] * Motion carried (For/Against/Abstained 5/0/0) * Voters stgraber, xnox, bdrung_work, ScottK, Laney == Action items, by person == * xnox * xnox to send micahg reminder about meeting and whether he still plans to participate in them == Done items == * (none) == People present (lines said) == * xnox (69) * Laney (45) * mitya57 (38) * meetingology (25) * ScottK (21) * bdrung_work (14) * stgraber (2) * Riddell (1) == Full Log == 15:10 #startmeeting Developer Membership Board Meeting 2014-11-17 15:10 Meeting started Mon Nov 17 15:10:32 2014 UTC. The chair is xnox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 15:10 15:10 Available commands: action commands idea info link nick 15:10 From roll call - Laney, bdrung_work, ScottK, stgraber and xnox are present. 15:11 absent bdmurray and micahg 15:11 * xnox action to send micahg reminder about meeting and whether he still plans to participate in them 15:11 #action xnox to send micahg reminder about meeting and whether he still plans to participate in them 15:11 * meetingology xnox to send micahg reminder about meeting and whether he still plans to participate in them 15:12 #topic Core Developer Application mitya57 15:12 o/ 15:12 mitya57: hello! How are you today? =) 15:12 Fine, thanks. Though I am on an unreliable wlan connection, so if I suddenly disappear, blame Moscow University wifi :) 15:13 mitya57: gotcha, will prepare the pitch forks 15:13 mitya57: could please introduce yourself and your application today briefly? =) 15:13 :) 15:14 Well, I am Dmitry Shachnev, 20 year old, math student, python/c++/js programmer, etc 15:14 Actually I have prepared something to paste 15:14 Things I will do: 15:14 - Maintaining "my" packages. Look at http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mitya57 15:14 for the incomplete list of them. 15:14 - Doing changes in other packages that "my" packages need (recent example: 15:14 new gnome-flashback release needed a patch dropped in gnome-menus). 15:14 - Doing some QA work (fixing FTBFS, autopkgtests failures, uninstallable packages, etc). 15:14 - Doing myself and sponsoring syncs, merges from Debian and bug fixes. 15:14 - Continuing my work in l10n and docs teams. 15:15 Things I won't do: 15:15 - Adding Ubuntu delta that is not a fix for important bug to packages 15:15 without existing delta. 15:15 - Include patches that haven't been forwarded, without a heavy reason. 15:15 Things I won't do: 15:15 - Adding Ubuntu delta that is not a fix for important bug to packages 15:15 without existing delta. 15:15 - Include patches that haven't been forwarded, without a heavy reason. 15:15 err 15:15 Things I won't do despite being Qt (co)maintainer: 15:15 - Touch Ubuntu Touch stuff (for now) :) 15:15 - Touch KDE stuff (unless I start using it myself). 15:15 (unless I am asked to do that, once Kubuntu guys asked me to sponsor 15:15 a few uploads for them). 15:15 ✈ EOF 15:16 ^ that needs | uniq 15:17 Actually touch people are a bit better about people uploading that stuff now 15:18 If you see something which FTBFS, then fix/(MP and upload) is valid and I don't think you should be afraid of doing that 15:19 I think if I ever want to contribute to something touch-related, I will go the MP/autoland way instead. 15:19 That's best if you can wait 15:19 s/autoland/CI train/ these days, but core-devs have power to use that anyway 15:20 CI train is what I meant. And MPs usually need to be approved by someone else. 15:20 nod 15:21 FWIW, I've seen enough of mitya57's work that I don't need to ask any questions. 15:21 JFTR, you should also feel completely free to ignore CI train and just upload stuff. 15:24 I'm good now 15:24 mitya57: what's your favourite parts of C++ and JS? least? 15:24 I also am all for mitya57's application, he's doing good stuff in Qt maintainance and working nicely with Debian Qt KDE team too 15:26 xnox: C++. I don't much like programming anything that runs in a browser. 15:26 (though I have to do that many times) 15:26 mitya57: ok. 15:27 #vote should mitya57 be granted core developer status in Ubuntu? 15:27 Please vote on: should mitya57 be granted core developer status in Ubuntu? 15:27 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) 15:27 +1 15:27 +1 received from Laney 15:27 +1 15:27 +1 received from ScottK 15:27 +1 15:27 +1 received from bdrung_work 15:27 +1 15:27 +1 received from xnox 15:28 mitya57, interesting to see Qt and GNOME flashback in the list of packages. 15:29 Qt is something I like a lot (actually I've even contributed ~20 patches upstream), and GNOME Flashback is a thing I was asked to take over by someone else. 15:29 +1 15:29 +1 received from stgraber 15:29 mitya57, what do you run on your desktop? 15:29 GNOME Shell 15:29 #endvote 15:29 Voting ended on: should mitya57 be granted core developer status in Ubuntu? 15:29 Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 15:29 Motion carried 15:30 mitya57: congrats, you are a core dev now =) 15:30 Thanks to you all! 15:30 mitya57: Yes, congratulations. It's about time. 15:30 Good stuff 15:31 I've added you to the team, now. And will deal with other post-meeting things later. 15:31 The first thing I'll do is sponsor my own three items in the sponsorship queue :) 15:31 ;-) 15:31 #topic Any other business 15:31 I put an item on the agenda 15:31 Thanks to xnox for being so fast 15:32 Laney: which is...? "Extend DD PPU to cover DM too (Laney)" not sure what that means? 15:32 Makes sense to me. 15:32 * ScottK says yes. 15:33 * xnox requests verbosity++ 15:33 #topic it and then I'll say 15:33 #topic Extend DD PPU to cover DM too (Laney) 15:33 Laney: floor is yours 15:33 I don't know how to link to the heading but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess has a section for DDs who want to apply for upload rights to their packages 15:34 Currently you have to be an actual full fat DD 15:34 I was reminded by Laibsch's thread on devel-permissions, as he is a DM, that I wanted to see if we could make this be DM or DD. 15:35 then we could s/Developer/Uploader/ or something 15:35 You can be a skinny DD as well. Beard is not required either. 15:35 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess 15:35 #url https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess 15:35 #help 15:35 * xnox gives up 15:36 ScottK, you should have told me before growing a beard and eating many sweets. ;) 15:36 I cannot imagine bdrung_work with a beard 15:36 Anyway 15:36 Questions? 15:36 Seems reasonable to me. 15:37 Laney: so looking at current uploading DMs in https://ftp-master.debian.org/dm.txt the list is not that large 15:37 * bdrung_work is fine with expanding the DD PPU to DM 15:38 * ScottK suggests a vote. 15:38 You'll still have to be approved normally one time 15:38 But then can extend it by mail later on 15:38 Yeah 15:38 xnox, this file has 165 persons listed 15:38 Compared to 1,000 DDs, it's not so many. 15:39 bdrung_work: some of them already have PPU rights in Ubuntu or will not want to seek them. 15:39 ScottK: well ~500 or so active. 15:39 True. 15:39 whithin past year. 15:39 what's the concern? 15:40 So, imho any Debian Developer is an Ubuntu Developer. 15:40 however DMs are inherently less trusted within Debian itself. 15:41 They are approximately equally trusted for specific packages however. 15:41 I do not feel that extending DMs to be PPUs is justified as is. There are no gurantees said people pass/know debian policies & procedures (both legal/dfsg and technical) 15:41 The approximation being they can't upload through New. 15:41 how can one assert it would be easy enough for them to pick up Ubuntu quarks? 15:42 from the DMs that I have sponsored, I've been monitoring and spotting clearly broken uploads into Debian. =( 15:42 xnox: If you'd seen some of the "not very good" stuff I see uploaded in Debian as a member of the FTP Team, you'd be much less sanguine about what DDs know. 15:42 (sponsored - that is granted DM rights) 15:42 ScottK: rolf =) 15:42 It's true. 15:42 These people have to go through one round with the DMB 15:42 Laney: yeah, 15:42 at which we will check their understanding of Ubuntu things 15:42 ok. 15:43 I don't have any other questions, is everyone ready to vote on this? 15:43 \o 15:43 I can only think of pocock and now Laibsch who actually take advantage of it atm 15:43 Let's go 15:44 * bdrung_work is ready. 15:44 #vote Extend DD PPU requirement to cover DMs too 15:44 Please vote on: Extend DD PPU requirement to cover DMs too 15:44 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) 15:44 +1 15:44 +1 received from ScottK 15:44 -1 15:44 -1 received from xnox 15:44 +1 15:44 +1 received from bdrung_work 15:44 +1 15:44 +1 received from Laney 15:45 stgraber: ? 15:47 +1 15:47 +1 received from stgraber 15:48 #endvote 15:48 Voting ended on: Extend DD PPU requirement to cover DMs too 15:48 Votes for:4 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0 15:48 Motion carried 15:48 * xnox is not sure if this motion is actually carried or not, and whether we need bdmurray and/or micah's vote here 15:48 Laney: ? ^ 15:48 4x+1 = carried 15:48 yeah 15:49 cool 15:49 thought about it after typing - the outcome is without a daubt. 15:49 My phone just alarmed to remind me about DMB 15:49 so 15:49 Laney, no, +4 in sum is needed 15:49 No 15:49 It's why we can vote on applicants without everyone present 15:50 If something gets to +4 then -3 still leaves you with +1 15:50 yes 15:51 #topic Any Other Business take #2 15:51 ....unless we want to continue discussing politics and voting systems 15:52 So did we agree it passed? 15:52 There are 3 threads ongoing, please reply to them 15:52 if someone from the absent members give a +1, it passes 15:52 ScottK: i believe it has passed, as the absolute majority is in favour. 15:52 ScottK: and there is no tie, even with extra votes from bdmurray & mica 15:53 OK. 15:53 I thought so too, but I wanted to make sure there's no confusion. 15:53 bdrung_work seems to disagree. 15:53 Laney: what threats? 15:53 if we use the same voting mechanism that we use for applicant 15:54 bdrung_work: given that we operate on 50%+1 majority (aka 1:1 majority) the outcome is without a daubt, and we do not require an 2:1 majority for applicant voting. 15:54 1) Laibsch PPU 2) Noskcaj MOTU 3) input-methods packageset 15:54 * bdrung_work has to leave now. 15:55 bdrung_work: however, I'd like to know bdmurray's opinion. 15:55 Laney: isn't 1 & 2 requested to be processed via email 15:55 yes 15:55 * xnox looks at the input-methods packageset 15:55 that's why I said please reply to the threads :) 15:55 i have not actually followed that thread. 15:55 xnox, the +4 requirement was to enable more fine grained declines (by voting +0 or -1) 15:58 Laney: i'll follow up on the email threats later over email. 15:58 ty 15:58 bdmurray: ditto needs follow up on the mailing list. 15:58 i guess that's it for today? 15:58 I think we had a similar conversation about voting systems a couple of years ago 15:58 maybe I remember the outcome wrong 15:58 would be helpful for bdrung to find the conclusion 15:59 (it went to the TB back then) 16:01 meh ok. 16:02 maybe #action him :) 16:02 #action cjwatson: as a returning officer: given 7 voters, and "Votes for:4 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0" collected to date, is the outcome without a doubt or do we need extra +1 votes? 16:02 * meetingology cjwatson: as a returning officer: given 7 voters, and "Votes for:4 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0" collected to date, is the outcome without a doubt or do we need extra +1 votes? 16:02 *cough* or bdmurray could just vote 16:03 a "returning officer"? 16:03 Laney: yes, a standard practice in traditional british voting and polling mechanisms, where ex-members are invited to oversee the process as independent party ;-) 16:04 Haha. 16:04 * xnox thinks cjwatson would be an excellent returning officer given the history of the boards and committees he has been on (including the DMB) 16:04 We could just dig up the old thread 16:04 anyway, we are past the hour, follow up on the irc 16:05 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)