== Meeting information == * #ubuntu-meeting Meeting, 09 Oct at 15:03 — 15:58 UTC * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-09-15.03.log.html]] == Meeting summary == === Lightning round === The discussion about "Lightning round" started at 15:04. * ''LINK:'' https://launchpadlibrarian.net/183721050/apport.rtm-hack.debdiff === AOB === The discussion about "AOB" started at 15:39. === click native-dbus === The discussion about "click native-dbus" started at 15:41. == Vote results == == Done items == * (none) == People present (lines said) == * cjwatson (83) * slangasek (78) * mvo (44) * infinity (37) * bdmurray (26) * sil2100 (20) * doko (16) * bhuey (16) * ubottu (15) * jodh (10) * barry (10) * Laney (6) * stgraber (3) * meetingology (3) * shadeslayer (1) == Full Log == 15:03 #startmeeting 15:03 Meeting started Thu Oct 9 15:03:58 2014 UTC. The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 15:03 15:03 Available commands: action commands idea info link nick 15:04 [TOPIC] Lightning round 15:04 $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru) 15:04 caribou jodh cjwatson slangasek doko infinity stgraber sil2100 robru barry mvo bdmurray bhuey 15:04 no caribou this morning 15:04 jodh: care to start us off? 15:04 * system-image: 15:04 - Fixed missing /home issue. 15:04 - Rewrote system-image-upgrader in python (needs testing). 15:04 - Enabled cloud-init. 15:04 - Testing, testing, testing. 15:04 ᜦ 15:05 is the new system-image-upgrader in the image now? 15:05 Was that in shell before? 15:05 slangasek: not yet - we're waiting to get the image into a stable state so we can test it :) 15:05 infinity: yeah 15:05 jodh: oh. what's "stable"? 15:06 slangasek: bootable with network, etc :) 15:06 jodh: What was the argument for making it use a heavier interpreter? shell just ran out of tricks? 15:06 like that it actually boots *cough* 15:06 infinity: it had to be as it was running in the initramfs way back then. 15:06 jodh: Ahh, it's moved out of the initrd? Kay. That makes a bit more sense, I guess. 15:07 infinity: json parsing in sh is not great 15:07 mvo: come on, my greps were totally fine at parsing json ;) 15:07 I just use jsonsh 15:07 (jshon?) 15:07 cjwatson: 15:07 s/ in sh.*// 15:07 write a shell plugin 15:07 stgraber: heh :) right - I must say it worked just fine :) 15:08 imported as an environment function 15:08 cjwatson: help come save us 15:08 actually, the original environment for system-image-upgrader was android busybox with any binary you need having to be statically linked as there's no C library in that environment... 15:08 A couple of hours of patch piloting. 15:08 Upgraded iprutils to 2.4.4. 15:08 Fixed grub-installer bug 1376973 on ppc64el, caused by grub-ieee1275.postinst improvements. 15:08 bug 1376973 in grub-installer (Ubuntu) "ppc64el: The 'grub-ieee1275' package failed to install" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376973 15:08 Chased down a couple of lost copies due to Launchpad librarian outage. 15:08 Tested man-db SRU (bug 1372673). 15:08 bug 1372673 in man-db (Ubuntu Trusty) "excessive debconf use when triggered" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1372673 15:08 Some more work on a native D-Bus interface for click. Split https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/click/info-extension/+merge/237385 out from this. Still in progress. 15:08 Reviewed https://code.launchpad.net/~cwayne18/phablet-tools/clickbuddy-with-sessions/+merge/237477. 15:08 Upgraded OpenSSH to 6.7p1, released earlier this week. Spent a while shoehorning the upstream regression test suite into autopkgtest, which was long overdue. Some work on getting interoperability tests to work (including changes to putty and twisted), though this isn't all in place yet. 15:08 slangasek: thanks, I was not aware of this one 15:08 Lots of odds and ends of support, freeze upload reviews, etc. 15:08 .. 15:08 sorry, buried in another window 15:09 mvo: oh, if jsonsh is actually a thing, I apologize ;) 15:09 slangasek: jq I think 15:09 slangasek: yeah, there is jshon! 15:10 heh 15:10 * working on an embargoed security update; more details later! 15:10 * tinkering yesterday with system-image server due to utf8 breakage (ubuntu-core images broke the world) 15:10 * working to get click core apps split into a custom tarball, so that they're installed by default for community images but not for krillin 15:10 * scheduling interviews this week for the open role 15:10 Huh, jq looks handy. 15:10 * other stuff I've forgotten 15:10 (done) 15:10 doko: your turn 15:10 - Python 3.4.2! 15:10 - bash update, and preparing a test rebuild with a non-essential bash 15:10 - prepare gdb and hardening-wrapper trusty SRUs 15:10 - again, a lot of ftbfs nagging, fixing, syncing 15:10 - GCC 4.9 update (will prepare one more for 14.10, not yet 4.9.2) 15:10 - llvm merges and updates 15:10 - gdb 7.8 branch updates 15:11 - openjdk-8 update 15:11 - libtool-bin split NMUs 15:11 (done) 15:11 - queue reviews 15:11 - updated a bunch of ppc packages 15:11 - more queue reviews 15:11 - experimented with powerpc on sapphire 15:11 - working on fixing up all the cross-toolchain stuff 15:11 - kernel SRU wrangling 15:11 - stuff and things 15:11 (done) 15:11 doko: hmm, why a test rebuild with non-essential bash? Are you doing this against Debian or Ubuntu? 15:11 My turn? 15:11 sil2100: yeah, go ahead, I'm not supposed to be here :) 15:11 Ah ;) 15:12 - Landing team work, preparing landing e-mails 15:12 - CI Train maintenance and features: 15:12 * Not much free cycles to finish up existing branches 15:12 * Tweaking the unit tests for the dual-landing publishing 15:12 * In-preprod tests of dual landing mode 15:12 * Looking into an issue with sync silos build progress tracking 15:12 slangasek, I can't currently in Ubuntu, pending some action from wgrant. so Debian it will be 15:12 - Patch pilot duty: 15:12 * Commenting on bug-1284111 MR for ristretto 15:12 * Checking the eiciel release bug and patches, changing it to a FFe 15:12 * Some clean-up on bugs 15:12 - Writing CI Train landing process documentation 15:12 - Updating the NewbieGuide for trainguards regarding the sync functionality 15:12 why? to make the bash usage explit 15:12 - Coordinating some big landings this week 15:12 - Fixes to the commitlog generation scripts to accomodate changes to the spreadsheet 15:12 explicit even 15:12 - Multiple discussions on the landing process 15:12 - More packaging advice and reviews 15:12 (done) 15:13 Previous week 15:13 -TCK runtime work, worked on a basic lxc creation script to create that environment on a QA machine 15:13 -got JCK-compiler/devtools working perfectly across precise/trusty/utopic 15:13 -got JCK-runtime working but still need configuration 15:13 Last week 15:13 -learned about Replaces: and Breaks:, fixed LP: #1359078 15:13 -compiled libphonenumber and regenerate results to close LP: #1366685 15:13 Launchpad bug 1359078 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "package openjdk-7-jdk 7u55-2.4.7-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-i386/src.zip', which is also in package openjdk-7-source 7u55-2.4.7-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1359078 15:13 This week 15:13 Launchpad bug 1366685 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu Utopic) "libphonenumber fails to build on arm64" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1366685 15:13 -create a branch for the TCK container environment, https://code.launchpad.net/~bill-huey/+junk/lxc-tck-script 15:13 -move to icedtea7-2.5.3, resolved a number of patch conflicts. Got clean compile but I need to update a few patches to fix build issues with jamvm 15:13 -focus on applying the latest security update 15:13 (done) 15:13 (done) 15:14 doko: ok, well I was going to say that it makes no sense to do this only in Ubuntu and *should* be done against Debian ;) 15:14 robru around? 15:15 doko: but also that I think the first step should be moving bash from essential to build-essential, which doesn't require any rebuild tests 15:15 I still think a test rebuild won't show up very much 15:15 ^ 15:15 Most of the problems will be runtime, not buildtime. 15:15 as soon as you have something that does need to (build-)depends: bash, then all failures above that will become invisible 15:15 robru's on vac 15:15 barry: your turn 15:15 things like checkbashisms seem like a better way to scan for this 15:15 trainguarding, monkeypushing, spreadsh*ting, dashboardsurfing, wikiwhacking 15:15 system-image: LP: #1373467. internal discussions and conference calls. 15:15 Launchpad bug 1373467 in Ubuntu system image "Support config.d directory" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1373467 15:16 debuntu: LP: #1376736 and pycurl 7.19.5-2ubuntu1. 15:16 Launchpad bug 1376736 in pycurl (Ubuntu) "[FFe] update to pycurl 7.19.5" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376736 15:16 --done-- 15:16 cjwatson: by this point, checkbashisms is probably moot and what we really need to scan for is #!/bin/bash 15:16 well either way yeah 15:16 also of course SHELL = /bin/bash etc. 15:16 yep, I'll do that first then 15:16 Scanning for #!/bin/bash will catch most, and then you have the pain of wading through a grep of "bash .*" and filtering out everything that's a documentation string instead of someone calling a script with bash. 15:17 and a ton of things where autotools likes to use bash if it can find it 15:17 but of course, SHELL = /bin/bash is only at build time, which again is why I think that, given that this is severable we should treat it separately 15:17 mvo: your turn 15:17 Short week, friday was a public holiday in germany 15:17 apt: 15:17 - Cve-CVE-2014-7206 (precise, trusty, utopic, wheezy) symlink attack 15:17 - Debug/fix Bug#764442 and check for possible security implications 15:17 - Review/merge donkult/feature/_apt_for_partial 15:17 - Review/merge patch for Bug#764467 15:17 - Work on feature/expected-size (ensure we fail if more than max. 15:17 data is written) 15:17 ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem. When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2014-7206) 15:17 - Work on feature/acq-trans 15:17 click: 15:17 - make app stop on remove in lp:~mvo/click/lp1232130-kill-on-remove-2, 15:17 (tricky as ubuntu-app-stop needs the session bus) 15:18 - add click info --remote to get details about a click 15:18 (lp:~mvo/click/repository) 15:18 - add click (sso) login command (lp:~mvo/click/sso) 15:18 - Merge acquire+sso (lp:~mvo/click/sso+acquire) but not useful yet 15:18 because public.apps.ubuntu.com has a gnutls issue (MP pending) 15:18 - Review/merge lp:~cjwatson/click/info-extension 15:18 misc: 15:18 - review lp:~cwarner/unattended-upgrades/whitelisting 15:18 system-image: 15:18 - Add --keyboard-layout option to create-ubuntu-core-image.py 15:18 - Build the system-image without recommends 15:18 - Fixes in the system-image seed 15:18 - Create ssh host keys in create-ubuntu-core-image.py (first boot not 15:18 a option due to insufficient entropy, thanks Colin!) 15:18 oh, that reminds me, no one's mentioned yet - this coming Monday is a bank holiday in the US, we're celebrating Canadian Thanksgiving 15:18 - Debug/fix /userdata/cache creation 15:18 - Ensure /etc/hosts has sensible defaults 15:18 - Ensure dbus machie-id is available via ExecStartPre line in systemd unit 15:18 - lp:~mvo/livecd-rootfs/no-recommends-for-system-image 15:18 - lp:~mvo/livecd-rootfs/system-image-include-hosts 15:18 - Debug boot problem (still in progress) 15:18 (done) 15:18 mvo: Your "short weeks" make me feel very inadequate. 15:18 slangasek: You're doing what now? 15:19 infinity: you didn't know we celebrate Canadian Thanksgiving? 15:19 slangasek: (And yeah, remind me that I need to take a swap day for that) 15:19 infinity: isn't every week a shorts week? oh wait, we're not talking about pants 15:19 infinity: haha, it was actually a long week with a day off :) 15:19 infinity: though down here, we call it Peter Falk Day 15:20 slangasek: yeah, me too 15:20 landed daisy r541: daisy/retracer.py: workaround apport AssertionError when retracing a crash with an invalid key 15:20 r453 daisy/submit.py: return bad response for crash reports that cause a memory error when trying to decode them 15:20 updated oopsrepository and daisy to prevent submission of duplicate crash reports from the same system 15:20 updated daisy-charm to run oopsrepository's schema.py so that new column families are created 15:20 searched for OOPSes with corrupt COREs in the Error Tracker that can be removed 15:20 modified accepted CORE reviewer to mark crashes w/o a package, release or executable path for deletion 15:20 investigation into not receiving crash notifications from Trusty UVT machine 15:20 uploaded update-notifier crash notification race condition (file not writable yet) fix 15:20 uploaded Trusty SRU fix for LP: #1378134 regarding crash notifications 15:20 Launchpad bug 1378134 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Trusty) "update-notifier crash detection checks for writable crash files" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1378134 15:20 nvestigation into status of apport and whoopsie smoke tests (passing!) 15:20 research into RTM crashes failure to retrace this is due to (LP: #1362496) 15:20 Launchpad bug 1362496 in base-files (Ubuntu-rtm 14.09) "LSB release and /etc/os-release still say "Utopic", needs to be RTM" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1362496 15:20 discussion with evan and pitti regarding crash reporting for click packages 15:20 SRU verification and release of fix for apport bug LP: #1354571 15:20 Launchpad bug 1354571 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "apport-retrace ignores warnings from gdb" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1354571 15:20 uploaded utopic curl bug fix for LP: #1375663 15:20 uploaded apport fixes for LP: #1376374, LP: #1345569 15:20 Launchpad bug 1375663 in curl (Ubuntu) "curl handles EINTR wrong" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1375663 15:20 Launchpad bug 1376374 in apport (Ubuntu) "whoopsie-upload-all will run hooks on a corrupt crash file multiple times" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376374 15:21 Launchpad bug 1345569 in apport (Ubuntu) "recoverable_problem crashed with ValueError in add_proc_info(): invalid process" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1345569 15:21 And I'm actually taking tomorrow not Monday off. 15:21 ✔ done 15:21 no Peter Falk movies for you 15:21 bhuey: hi 15:22 slangasek: hey 15:22 bhuey: oh, you went earlier, didn't you 15:22 yes 15:22 you were out of order! throwing me off :) 15:22 Ok. Any questions from anyone re: status? 15:22 sorry 15:23 slangasek: i have princess bride and made in my netflix queue 15:23 any more Columbo jokes? 15:23 barry: haha 15:23 cjwatson: I've heard that you did some researchin into bug 1362496 and changing base-files? 15:23 bug 1362496 in base-files (Ubuntu-rtm 14.09) "LSB release and /etc/os-release still say "Utopic", needs to be RTM" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1362496 15:23 barry: we seem to be the only two finding this funny 15:24 bdmurray: → infinity really; the issue is that a bunch of packages conditionalise on lsb_release at build time, and we can't just make a bunch of stuff fail to build or worse even misbuild just before RTM 15:24 slangasek: we're the only ones getting falked i guess 15:24 even though it's ugly it's safer to work around it elsewhere for now 15:24 with the hope of doing the less ugly thing later? 15:24 yeah 15:25 basically I looked into it sufficiently to decide that it was too scary at the moment 15:25 conditionalize on lsb_release > project to port these to dpkg-vendor? 15:25 cjwatson: okay, that wasn't clear from the information in the bug report 15:25 bdmurray: To be fair, my hope is that "later", phone releases *are* based on stable Ubuntu releases, and not massive forks, but I get the impression that utopia won't exist for a while. :( 15:25 slangasek: dpkg-vendor doesn't give you series information 15:25 right 15:26 I think this should go in the derived distro post-mortem when we do one of those 15:26 bdmurray: But the massive engineering burden in maintaining two parallel distros is something we can't keep up forever either. 15:28 the current problem is that nothing on RTM is retracing because apport doesn't like it; that's a critical problem 15:28 does apport use os-release in preference to lsb-release? 15:29 so we need a short-term solution 15:29 it *is* possible that we could change JUST os-release, I think 15:29 I think pitti implied that it does, on the bug log 15:29 I still think it probably needs an archive grep for safety 15:29 https://launchpadlibrarian.net/183721050/apport.rtm-hack.debdiff 15:29 is that Canonistack instance with the archive search engine still up somewhere? 15:30 that's the change to apport that would work and it mentions "This is read from /etc/os-release, or if that doesn't exist..." 15:30 bdmurray: That works too. 15:30 I've lost the URL 15:30 cjwatson, infinity: btw, "derived distribution post-mortem" added to the sprint agenda 15:30 oh thanks 15:31 so it looks to me like apport prefers /etc/os-release 15:31 I shut it down because it was giving incomplete results, which is misleading 15:31 Need time to resurrect 15:32 infinity: would you be happier with just an os-release change? I do still think we need to search for it somehow 15:32 Laney: how long would that take? 15:32 Don't know, sorry, I didn't even really look into what the problem was 15:32 maybe you just want to run an instance of the security team's archive grep as a one-off? 15:33 jdstrand can do archive greps, advise doing that for now 15:33 as they have well-exercised tooling for unpacking the world and grepping it 15:33 I had that setup at one point in time too 15:33 Sprint might be a good time to go away and try to fix it 15:33 (said everyone ever) 15:34 cjwatson: I think that would still need a grep, but I bet the hits for 'os-release' in the entire distro will be only a few, and hopefully mostly irrelevant. 15:35 bdmurray: can you do that archive grep for os-release, and we'll discuss (w/ infinity, cjwatson) the findings if necessary? 15:36 slangasek: yes, but it'd be utopic not the rtm archive 15:36 bdmurray: Close enough. 15:36 bdmurray: if that's the easiest for you to run, JFDI and we can pare down the results afterwards 15:37 My guess is that you'll find a reference or two in systemd and maybe GNOME, and then our own tools (like apport) that opportunistically started looking at it. 15:37 And none of those would be cause for concern. 15:37 (I don't expect there to be any *new* uses of os-release in rtm that we care about) 15:37 But definitely want to be sure. 15:39 [TOPIC] AOB 15:39 anything else under "general business"? 15:39 as mentioned, Monday's a holiday for US and Canada 15:39 bug 1265192 - cjwatson will you be looking at it? 15:39 bug 1265192 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "Install/reinstall wipes out all/other partitions" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1265192 15:39 and next week is Plumbers/Kontinental Kernel Kongress 15:39 bdmurray: yeah, on my "RSN" todo 15:40 so we're going to be a bit skeleton crew for the next week 15:41 [TOPIC] click native-dbus 15:41 in the meantime, trying to get us back in the rhythm of having presentations at the meetings 15:41 yeah, apparently I stepped back slowest 15:41 cjwatson is going to talk a bit about the work he's doing with click's "native dbus" support 15:41 * sil2100 readies his eyes 15:42 ok, so I've been working on adding a native D-Bus interface to click, aiming to replace its use of PackageKit 15:42 up to now we've got away with relying on PK (mostly pkcon, its CLI client) for this 15:42 unfortunately PK upstream is about to drop plugin support, which is going to kick the chair-legs out from under us in the V cycle 15:42 cf. http://blog.tenstral.net/2014/09/listaller-back-to-the-future.html 15:42 slangasek, one more thing for AOB, are the tutorial/workshop proposals for the sprint decided? 15:42 I'd always intended to have a more natural native interface anyway - using PK was expedient at the time, but it has some assumptions that don't *quite* fit, esp. for command-line use 15:43 things like the weird way you have to figure out IDs in order to remove packages, for instance 15:43 doko: I haven't heard 15:43 we also don't actually need the fancier things we get from PK, really, like searching both apt and click in a single view 15:43 given that we're trying to make click work on the server now, we need a nice CLI, and this is just forcing the issue for us. 15:43 so, I've been working on adding a native service. Vala makes this quite nice and this broadly seems to let me install and remove packages via dbus-send 15:43 $ wc -l lib/click/dbus-*.vala 15:43 66 lib/click/dbus-interface.vala 15:43 296 lib/click/dbus-service.vala 15:43 362 total 15:44 it's basically com.ubuntu.Click.{InstallFile,RemovePackage} right now 15:44 the next thing is to have click notice when it's being called from its own service. if not, it'll call itself under the hood, and the service will detect the calling user 15:44 that way, rather than needing to do: 15:44 pkcon install-local foo.click 15:44 or: 15:45 sudo click install --user=$USER foo.click 15:45 you'll be able to just do: 15:45 click install foo.click 15:45 Michael has been working on a companion to this, package acquisition support from the store or from URLs 15:45 combining these, you'll be able to do: 15:45 click install foo 15:45 click install http://example.org/foo.click 15:45 (conditional on signing etc.) 15:45 the PK plugin will stick around for a while, not least because unity-scope-click is relying on it - I want a graceful transition. but its days are numbered 15:46 that's it, any questions? 15:46 is there a branch available to play with it yet :) ? 15:46 will try to get that up by tomorrow - I want to at least sketch the client side to make sure it works properly 15:47 * mvo nods 15:47 no real rush from my side, I'm just curious about it 15:47 yeah, I need to finish it before the release rush starts anyway otherwise it'll fall by the wayside 15:48 * mvo nods again 15:50 no other questions from me 15:50 sounds really straightforward and awesome 15:50 oh 15:50 what's the ratio of lines of vala to lines of test code? :) 15:50 er cough ask me that next week :P 15:50 :-) 15:51 it will be unit-tested somehow but I didn't exactly TDD it 15:51 vala seems cool 15:52 Cool, but a bit on the scary magic side too. 15:52 is there an idiomatic test harness for testing vala, or does one just use a generic one for C-ish things? 15:52 its interessting, sometimes I wish for a bit more documentation 15:52 click in general has about a 1.3:1 ratio of test code to code under test 15:52 Compilers that compile to other languages so you can have a compiler in your compiler tend to have some of the most fascinating misfeatures. 15:52 slangasek: click uses its own entertaining harness 15:52 it's perhaps worth a talk by itself, though I've mentioned it around here before 15:53 we generate LD_PRELOAD modules on the fly which allow Python methods to stand in as mocks for C functions 15:53 infinity: http://www.yodawgyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/xzibit-yo-dawg-i-heard-you-like-math.jpg 15:53 and then indeed you just treat Vala like C 15:53 cjwatson: ah, so this would be integrated with the existing click harness, sure 15:53 it's ... not perfect 15:53 :) 15:53 but it does the job if you're careful 15:54 cool 15:54 using ctypes for it was a bad idea 15:54 any other questions? 15:54 s/for it // 15:54 what it really needs is the other half of pygobject exposed so that it can marshal things that way 15:54 since it's already relying on gobject-introspection 15:54 Mentions of python ctypes are a PTSD trigger for me. 15:54 infinity: I didn't realise it wasn't properly 64-bit clean! I mean for goodness' sake it's 2014 15:55 but by the time I realised that I'd already sunk several days into it ... 15:55 cjwatson: It is, indeed, 2014. Say, how do you feel about threads? :) 15:55 eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil 15:56 e^vil 15:56 Somewhere, there's a kettle screaming your name. 15:56 but, but. we have to do *something* with all that yak wool 15:56 come back to me when somebody proves a pthreads program correct 15:56 cjwatson: Much easier to prove them 99% not incorrect. 15:56 cjwatson: I call it faith-based programming. 15:57 it's the 1% that worries me :) 15:57 infinity: which is better than faith-based debugging, where you gather the community and everyone lays hands on the laptop lid 15:57 ok. done here? :) 15:58 generally Vala has been fine for me though. I gather it's scary if you pile on the features too much, but for what I'm doing it's easy enough and it's nice to be able to look at its compiled code 15:58 slangasek: Keep your weird oils off my laptop. 15:58 yep, I think so 15:58 cjwatson: How prety (or not) is the intermediate code? 15:58 cjwatson: thanks for filling us in on this cool bit of work 15:58 y'all can keep talking, but some of us have other meetings to get to ;) 15:58 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)