== Meeting information ==
 * #ubuntu-meeting: Ubuntu DMB, 07 Apr at 15:26 — 16:08 UTC
 * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-07-15.26.log.html]]



== Meeting summary ==

=== Ubuntu Core dev application: Adam Stokes ===
The discussion about "Ubuntu Core dev application: Adam Stokes" started at 15:26.

  * ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdamStokes/CoreDevApplication 
  * ''Vote:'' Adamd Stokes for Ubuntu Core Developer (Carried)



 * [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-04-07-15.26.log.html#98 Adamd Stokes for Ubuntu Core Developer]]
  * Motion carried (For/Against/Abstained 4/0/1)
   *  Voters stgraber, xnox, Laney, ScottK, bdmurray
== Vote results ==




== Done items ==

 * (none)



== People present (lines said) ==

 * stokachu (70)
 * ScottK (15)
 * bdmurray (13)
 * xnox (13)
 * meetingology (13)
 * Laney (6)
 * bdrung_work (2)
 * stgraber (2)
 * arges (1)



== Full Log ==


 15:26 <bdmurray> #startmeeting Ubuntu DMB

 15:26 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Apr  7 15:26:47 2014 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 15:26 <meetingology> 

 15:26 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick

 15:26 <bdmurray> #topic Ubuntu Core dev application: Adam Stokes

 15:27 <xnox> From service manpage restart is stop, start =))))))))) </joke>

 15:27 <stokachu> hi, thanks guys for restarting for me

 15:27 <bdmurray> stokachu: Could you introduce yourself, your work, and your application?

 15:28 <stokachu> Hi, I've been working for Canonical doing a Sustaining Engineering role and recently moving into Solutions Engineer concentrating on juju, maas, and our most recent project cloud installer

 15:28 <stokachu> one sec lemme get the app link

 15:29 <stokachu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdamStokes/CoreDevApplication

 15:29 <ScottK> For those of us that don't work at Canonical, sustaining/solutions engineering doesn't mean much.

 15:29 <stokachu> as stated in the application ive been using Ubuntu for roughly 3 years and Fedora prior to that for 7 years

 15:29 <stokachu> Susstaining engineering revolved around maintaining the quality and stability of the existing product lines

 15:30 <stokachu> inlucding Base OS, Kernel maintenance, and Cloud technologies such as Juju

 15:30 <xnox> stokachu: mostly on LTS releases only?

 15:30 <stokachu> Sustaining rarely did new feature enhancements or new package appication

 15:30 <stokachu> Yea our main focus was LTS releases

 15:30 <stokachu> however when we sent a patch we did it for all supported Relesaes

 15:30 <stokachu> releases*

 15:31 <stokachu> In solutions engineering we are kind of a R&D department

 15:31 <stokachu> where we work on upstream enhancements with focus in maas, juju, and hpc

 15:32 <ScottK> Usually, people apply for MOTU, before core-dev.  How it's somewhat unusual to see someone going for core-dev as their first entry point into ubuntu-dev.

 15:32 <stokachu> as for outside of the canonical realm i've successfully submitted the package sosreport in the Debian archive via the mentors program

 15:32 <stokachu> which was handled from scratch until upload

 15:32 <stokachu> I am currently a Ubuntu contributing developer

 15:33 <stokachu> ScottK: ^

 15:33 <stokachu> when time permits ive done package merges from debian into X ubuntu release

 15:33 <stokachu> participated in +1 maintenance

 15:34 <ScottK> Right, but that's not part of ubuntu-dev (that's people with upload rights)

 15:34 <Laney> What do you imagine you'll be mainly working on in the Ubuntu archive?

 15:34 <xnox> ScottK: however, I went straight from contributing developer -> core dev. So there have been cases like that before. Also looking at stokachu's upload history most of the uploads that got sponsored for him are for "main" packages.

 15:34 <stokachu> My main focus will be our cloud products such as Maas, Juju, and Cloud installer

 15:34 * Laney doesn't think going straight for core-dev is a problem in itself if there's experience and that's where the interests/intention to contribute is

 15:34 <stokachu> curtin

 15:35 <stokachu> Where main package contributions come into play will be against those that are depending on by the stated cloud products

 15:35 <stokachu> dhcp, bind, etc

 15:35 <ScottK> xnox: I know it's happened, it's just not usual.

 15:36 <stokachu> ive worked with xnox and bdmurray on a few occasions related to packaging and userspace maintenance work

 15:36 <bdmurray> stokachu: with your change in teams and responsibilities has your focus shifted from SRUs to the development release?

 15:37 <stokachu> bdmurray: yea my focus won't be SRU at this time

 15:37 <stokachu> primarily due to team sizes/resources etc

 15:37 <stokachu> CTS would still handle the SRU's for products i will directly work on

 15:37 <ScottK> CTS?

 15:37 <stokachu> canonical technical services

 15:38 <stokachu> the department where Sustaining Engineering resides

 15:38 <stokachu> ScottK: sorry i dont intentially mean to automatically assume everyone knows canonical

 15:38 <ScottK> Let's try and make it through the rest of the meeting without any references to the Canonical org chart.

 15:39 <stokachu> sure

 15:39 <ScottK> What do you think of the process for landing maas/juju development efforts into Ubuntu?

 15:40 <stokachu> They aren't in line with the rest of development processes

 15:40 <bdmurray> stokachu: your application seems to be missing the "Things I could do better" section.  Is that deliberate?

 15:40 <stokachu> As in feature freezes tend to not apply to them, however, I feel they should

 15:40 <stokachu> bdmurray: there is a one liner which states Increase my productivity by stream lining my work items for the different projects I am involved in.

 15:41 <stokachu> and by increasing productivity I mean adhearing to the processes defined by Ubuntu

 15:41 <ScottK> stokachu: Feature freeze does apply.  They just ignore it and ask for an FFe every time.

 15:41 <stokachu> reduce back and forth

 15:41 <xnox> stokachu: MAAS & juju testing is loosely integrated with ubuntu release cycle. Past three releases co-incided with Openstack summits and there was nobody available (and had hardware) to execute end-to-end MAAS testing, and it hasn't been tested regularly during the development cycle. In your opinion, how can this be improved?

 15:41 <xnox> (thus critical bugs were discovered more-or-less during release weeks)

 15:41 <stokachu> xnox: So CI is definitely a big issue in my eyes

 15:42 <stokachu> we shouldnt be releasing products that do not 100% pass tests and have a huge percentage of coverage

 15:42 <ScottK> Having a release schedule that's aligned to Ubuntu's would help.

 15:42 <stokachu> For juju in particular it would be beneficial to stick to not making breaking changes in minor releases

 15:42 <stokachu> Also maas release 1.5 which is way to close to the 14.04 release

 15:43 <stokachu> to be audited and signed off on

 15:43 <stokachu> released*

 15:43 <stokachu> Making sure codebases are green before doing releases is a pet peeve of mine

 15:44 <stokachu> But, maas and juju teams do realize the pitfalls

 15:44 <stokachu> and are actively changing their processes and increasing testing

 15:45 <stokachu> They are in the right direction so I strongly believe those aligned processes with Ubuntu will be seen in the near future

 15:45 <xnox> stokachu: ok. Slightly different question: What should one do when updating a library, that removes one function from its ABI?

 15:46 <stokachu> xnox: ifa function is removed the symbol tables would need to be updated to reflect that

 15:47 <stokachu> among a version bump and possible rebuilds of affected packages

 15:48 * bdrung_work arrives

 15:48 <xnox> stokachu: how would you find out list of affected packages?

 15:50 <stokachu> xnox: running a rdepends to see which version of the library is used

 15:50 <stokachu> using ldd will also give you the library version used

 15:50 <xnox> stokachu: ok. There is also "reverse-depends" command, that I find is often faster (it uses pregenerated caches)

 15:50 <xnox> no more questions from me.

 15:51 <bdmurray> Does anybody else have any questions?

 15:51 <stokachu> xnox: is that different than the rdepends argument?

 15:52 <stokachu> apt-rdepends?

 15:52 <stokachu> or that may be recursive

 15:52 <ScottK> If you have a library that needs a version bump, what packaging changes are needed?

 15:53 <xnox> stokachu: one is local, the other one uses remote cache. Otherwise basic functionality is about the same. But each has extra features lacking in the other tool.

 15:53 <stokachu> ah ok good t oknow

 15:53 <ScottK> Also reverse-depends -b will give you the reverse build-deps.

 15:54 <stokachu> ScottK: changing the SONAME and corresponding name for the binary package

 15:54 <stokachu> call ldconfig within postinst

 15:54 <stokachu> hm.. what else

 15:55 <stokachu> i think those are the main things

 15:55 <ScottK> Other than sosreport and the things related to your work, what interests in Ubuntu development do you have?

 15:56 <stokachu> im a big fan of KDE so I'd like to be more active in that area

 15:56 <stokachu> maybe not so much the DE portion but its applications

 15:57 <stokachu> I also enjoy blogging and talking about products/projects in a way that can benefit small businesses

 15:58 <stokachu> wrt juju I have a interest in the "scaling down" part of the environment

 15:59 <bdmurray> Alright, is that all the questions?

 16:01 <bdmurray> #vote Adamd Stokes for Ubuntu Core Developer

 16:01 <meetingology> Please vote on: Adamd Stokes for Ubuntu Core Developer

 16:01 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)

 16:02 <xnox> +1

 16:02 <meetingology> +1 received from xnox

 16:02 <ScottK> +0 #clearly knows a lot, but straight to core-dev is a big jump - I would be more comfortable starting with PPU or maybe server dev.

 16:02 <meetingology> +0 #clearly knows a lot, but straight to core-dev is a big jump - I would be more comfortable starting with PPU or maybe server dev. received from ScottK

 16:02 <Laney> +1

 16:02 <meetingology> +1 received from Laney

 16:02 <stgraber> +1

 16:02 <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber

 16:02 <bdmurray> +1

 16:02 <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray

 16:02 <Laney> micahg: bdrung

 16:03 <bdrung_work> i still have to catch up.

 16:03 <Laney> ok, well no need anyway :-)

 16:04 <xnox> micahg had tentative +0

 16:05 <bdmurray> #endvote

 16:05 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Adamd Stokes for Ubuntu Core Developer

 16:05 <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1

 16:05 <meetingology> Motion carried

 16:05 <stokachu> sweet!

 16:06 <stokachu> bdmurray: just noticed Adamd Stokes :)

 16:06 <Laney> well done ;-)

 16:06 <arges> congrats

 16:06 <bdmurray> stokachu: sorry about that typo

 16:07 <stokachu> bdmurray: its cool man

 16:07 <stokachu> micahg: ScottK, promise not to let you down :)

 16:07 <xnox> stokachu: =) congrats.

 16:07 <stokachu> thanks everyone :)

 16:07 <bdmurray> Okay, we already handled AOB in the previous meeting ;-) so I guess that's a wrap.

 16:08 <stokachu> thanks again for your time and restarting the meeting

 16:08 <stgraber> stokachu: congrats!

 16:08 <ScottK> stokachu: The main thing is to ask when you're not sure.  Core-dev means you have more ability to break things, it doesn't mean you're expected to know it all.

 16:08 <stokachu> ScottK: i will definitely do that

 16:08 <stokachu> stgraber: thanks!

 16:08 <ScottK> The breaking part or the asking part?

 16:08 <bdmurray> #endmeeting



Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)