17:05 <dholbach> #startmeeting
17:05 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Dec 19 17:05:53 2013 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
17:05 <meetingology> 
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17:06 <dholbach> #chair mhall119 cprofitt
17:06 <meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt dholbach mhall119
17:06 <dholbach> hello everybody
17:06 <dholbach> #topic Check-in with the Developer Membership Board
17:06 <dholbach> do we have anyone from the DMB here?
17:07 <dholbach> ScottK, bdrung_, laney, micahg, tumbleweed, stgraber: anyone of you guys around?
17:07 <mhall119> I emailed them, but it was moderated, and the list owner was the TB, who didn't exist
17:08 <Laney> I moderated it.
17:08 <dholbach> hey laney
17:08 <cprofitt> hello everyone
17:08 <Laney> hello
17:08 <dholbach> how are things?
17:08 <dholbach> how has the last cycle been for the DMB?
17:09 <Laney> depends how much you like autopilot
17:09 <Laney> hmm, I think it's been much on the level
17:09 <Laney> we've had some new people but not been overly busy
17:09 <Laney> the TB approved the PPU change that we talked about before
17:09 <dholbach> excellent
17:09 <dholbach> didn't you have any other changes up your sleeves, like making it easier for Debian developers too?
17:10 <dholbach> or are we at the "it's as easy as it gets" point already? :)
17:10 <Laney> we did some of that
17:10 <Laney> have used it a couple of times already
17:11 <Laney> probably need some more experience to know where it could be made easier
17:11 <dholbach> did you get any feedback? or was it straight enough for people who are not in the Ubuntu project too much yet?
17:12 <Laney> currently you have to have attended a DMB interview once before
17:12 <Laney> so it's not /that/ simple
17:12 <Laney> I guess somehow that could be relaxed, but we suck at doing email applications
17:12 <dholbach> do two DMB interviews or first somebody else's interview? (I'm not sure I understand... :-))
17:12 <Laney> one
17:12 <Laney> then you just email to get more stuff
17:13 <dholbach> ah ok
17:14 <dholbach> one thing we talked about in the past was that the DAT and DMB work more closely together, but the DAT has gone through a bit of a hard time recently because many of its members got quite busy (me included) - so I wanted to ask: do you feel people who should apply (because they're experienced enough) do it?
17:15 <Laney> yeah generally people do if they've managed to get that far
17:15 <dholbach> and I'm just interested in your gut feeling - it's a bit hard to maintain an overview over all people who contribute through the cycles
17:15 <Laney> probably getting people to that stage is the part that suffers
17:15 <dholbach> I'll take an action to bring this up with the DAT again
17:15 <Laney> but we get people coming through like ginggs and mitya57 recently
17:16 <Laney> and I expect Noskcaj and darkxst soon
17:16 <dholbach> ... which is excellent :)
17:17 <dholbach> do you feel there are Debian developers who would apply for upload rights if they knew more about the possibility?
17:17 <Laney> ummmmmmmmm, that's hard to say
17:17 <dholbach> like, do you see Debian developers constantly filing sync requests for their packages, etc
17:18 <Laney> not really, but I think someone would notice and poke them to apply if that happened
17:18 <Laney> pocock is one in that situation, who we're being bad at processing because it's going over email
17:18 <mhall119> do you see Debian developers surprised to learn they can apply?
17:18 <dholbach> laney: is it the roundtrips that take too long?
17:19 <Laney> it's just something that gets put off
17:19 <Laney> because there's no fixed time for it
17:20 <Laney> you know how these things are
17:20 <dholbach> I mark mails as unread if I didn't reply to them yet...............
17:20 <dholbach> sorry, probably not the most useful suggestion :)
17:20 <Laney> haha
17:20 <mhall119> email still sucks as a TODO list manager
17:20 <dholbach> still, it feels possible to me to get it done somehow :)
17:20 <Laney> everyone knows they have to just DO IT but it still doesn't always work
17:21 <Laney> doing it live on IRC is much better for everyone
17:21 <Laney> mhall119: not really
17:21 <dholbach> sure
17:21 <Laney> but I don't think the fast path processes are very well advertised
17:21 <dholbach> what the MC did (ages ago) was sort of like a private stand-up meeting where we went through our TODO
17:21 <dholbach> it sounds to me like something like this would probably just take 5-10 minutes for the DMB
17:22 <Laney> hmm
17:22 <Laney> I dunno, we aren't very good at exerting social pressure on each other
17:22 <dholbach> there must be a way to make it a bit more painful to admit that something still hasn't gotten done :)
17:22 <Laney> like the PPU team reorganisation has gone on for weeks already
17:24 <mhall119> does the DMB have regular meetings?
17:24 <Laney> there's a named person assigned to it, it gets brought up at every meeting as it's on the agenda, yet somehow ...
17:24 <Laney> sure, every two weeks
17:24 <Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
17:24 <mhall119> so it's brought up, and everybody knows who's supposed to do it, but it just doesn't happen?
17:24 <Laney> pretty much
17:24 <Laney> how do you deal with that?
17:25 <mhall119> big stick?
17:25 <Laney> not sure what stick we have available
17:25 <mhall119> is there a list right now of people that need to be contacted?
17:26 <Laney> other than getting them removed from the board
17:26 <pleia2> some boards have taken to have a secretary who makes sure the administrative stuff is followed through on
17:26 <pleia2> and the CC uses a trello board so we don't lose track of tasks
17:26 <Laney> there's just one person
17:26 <Laney> I really don't think keeping track is the problem
17:26 <pleia2> fair enough
17:26 <Laney> It's just lack of urgency
17:27 <cprofitt> why is there a lack of urgency?
17:27 <dholbach> cprofitt, I guess it's all busy people
17:27 <mhall119> Laney: you said there's a named person assigned to every applicant?
17:27 <Laney> nein, applicants are handled by everyone
17:27 <Laney> this is for other things
17:28 <mhall119> so when you say "there's a named person assigned to it", what is the "it"?
17:28 <Laney> other action items, such as restructuring PPU teams that we have ongoing atm
17:28 <Laney> previously it was a project to gather descriptions for packagesets
17:29 <Laney> so that we could more easily extend them
17:29 <Laney> eventually we dropped that one because it went on so long
17:29 <mhall119> Laney: so there aren't currently any of these things that need to be taken care of?
17:29 <Laney> sure there is, I just said one :-)
17:29 <mhall119> restructing PPU teams?
17:30 <Laney> and I'm the one who was supposed to start pocock's application but haven't done it yet
17:30 <Laney> was waiting for some endorsements but it looks like they came in now
17:30 <mhall119> so maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see a list of these and who's assigned to them
17:30 <Laney> it was a project we worked on in consultation with the previous CC
17:30 <mhall119> on the agenda page
17:31 <Laney> umm, it's listed as an action point on the agenda
17:31 <Laney> It's true that we should have starting the application there, let me add that
17:32 <Laney> there we go
17:33 <cprofitt> Laney: the CC has used Trello to track and assign items... not sure if something like that could help with some of the items
17:34 <pleia2> cprofitt: mentioned that :)
17:34 <Laney> Yeah
17:34 <Laney> It might help in that it breaks down the tasks I guess
17:34 <dholbach> I think if the DMB uses the Wiki that should work as well - you'll always have to have somebody looking at the list again to see what's still in TODO and DOING :)
17:35 <Laney> it's only tracked in the agenda, which means that we come back to things every two weeks
17:35 <Laney> the idea is that people feel shame if they haven't done their work
17:35 <Laney> doesn't work so well :-(
17:35 <dholbach> laney: maybe somebody could send a reminder between the two meetings
17:36 <Laney> yeah maybe
17:36 <Laney> I'll try that
17:36 <dholbach> awesome
17:36 <dholbach> apart from that you feel everything's working out fine?
17:37 <Laney> I think everything's on the same level as it was last time we had this kind of meeting ...
17:37 <dholbach> ok :)
17:38 <dholbach> does anyone else have any more questions for the DMB?
17:38 <dholbach> laney: anything else you wanted to bring up or the CC could help with?
17:38 <xnox> dholbach: what do they really want for Christmas?
17:38 <xnox> =)
17:38 <dholbach> rainbow unicorns just like everyone else :)
17:39 <pleia2> I'm good, was nice to see anoither motu approved the other day :)
17:39 <Laney> moar motus
17:39 <pleia2> thanks for joining us, Laney
17:39 <Laney> hey, I remember back in the day there used to be "behind MOTU" interviews, would be nice to have those again
17:40 <pleia2> yeah
17:40 <dholbach> Maia and Nigel took it over and even set up a domain for it
17:41 <dholbach> at least that's how I remember it
17:41 <dholbach> but yeah, that'd be great to have again for sure
17:41 <Laney> http://behindthecircle.org/
17:41 <dholbach> ah yes
17:41 <pleia2> I can follow up with them
17:41 <dholbach> <3
17:41 <Laney> aww, look at bdrung_'s little smiling face
17:41 <pleia2> #action pleia2 to follow up with behindthecircle.org status
17:41 * meetingology pleia2 to follow up with behindthecircle.org status
17:42 <Laney> thanks!
17:42 <dholbach> laney: I have to meet up with him again - I'm sure he's still smiling exactly like this :)
17:42 <dholbach> all right, thanks a lot laney!
17:42 <dholbach> #topic Any other business
17:42 <dholbach> does anyone have any other business to discuss?
17:43 <dholbach> there's at least nothing on the agenda page
17:46 <Laney> the list of candidates for the TB - how were they selected? I didn't see any call; was it done in private?
17:46 <dholbach> laney: I don't know where it was, but wasn't there a call for nominations?
17:47 <Laney> if there was then I missed it
17:47 <Laney> was it handed to you guys as a finished list?
17:48 <pleia2> sabdfl picks them
17:48 <pleia2> no call for nominations
17:49 <Laney> I see
17:50 <dholbach> I found http://www.mail-archive.com/technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com/msg01199.html
17:50 <dholbach> maybe from there folks mailed Mark
17:50 <dholbach> but I don't know for sure
17:50 <dholbach> all right... anything else?
17:51 <pleia2> I think that's it, thanks dholbach!
17:51 <dholbach> thanks a bunch everyone!
17:51 <dholbach> #endmeeting