== Meeting information ==
 * #ubuntu-meeting: ubuntu-server-team, 12 Nov at 16:03 — 16:53 UTC
 * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-11-12-16.03.log.html]]



== Meeting summary ==

=== Review ACTION points from previous meeting ===
The discussion about "Review ACTION points from previous meeting" started at 16:03.


=== Saucy Development ===
The discussion about "Saucy Development" started at 16:03.

  * ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule 
 * '''Release Bugs''' (16:05)
  * ''LINK:'' http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server 
  * ''LINK:'' http://launchpad.net/bugs/1229275 
  * ''LINK:'' http://launchpad.net/bugs/1208455 
  * ''LINK:'' http://launchpad.net/bugs/1245251 
  * ''LINK:'' http://launchpad.net/bugs/1199791 
  * ''LINK:'' https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1228085 
  * ''LINK:'' http://launchpad.net/bugs/1236439 
  * ''LINK:'' http://launchpad.net/bugs/1242363 
 * '''Blueprints''' (16:23)
  * ''ACTION:'' arosales to set up topic bp for server
  * ''LINK:'' http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html 
  * ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BlueprintSpec 
  * ''ACTION:'' jamespage, smoser,  review all saucy BPs
  * ''ACTION:'' gaughen review saucy BPs

=== Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou) ===
The discussion about "Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)" started at 16:27.


=== Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa) ===
The discussion about "Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)" started at 16:28.


=== Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb) ===
The discussion about "Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)" started at 16:30.


=== Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak) ===
The discussion about "Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)" started at 16:31.


=== Ubuntu Server Team Events ===
The discussion about "Ubuntu Server Team Events" started at 16:33.


=== Open Discussion ===
The discussion about "Open Discussion" started at 16:34.

  * ''LINK:'' http://uds.ubuntu.com/ 

=== Announce next meeting date and time ===
The discussion about "Announce next meeting date and time" started at 16:50.

  * ''ACTION:'' arosales send email to server list to cancel Nov 19 server meeting in liu of UDS



== Vote results ==




== Action items ==

 * arosales to set up topic bp for server
 * jamespage, smoser,  review all saucy BPs
 * gaughen review saucy BPs
 * arosales send email to server list to cancel Nov 19 server meeting in liu of UDS



== Action items, by person ==

 * arosales
  * arosales to set up topic bp for server
  * arosales send email to server list to cancel Nov 19 server meeting in liu of UDS
 * gaughen
  * gaughen review saucy BPs
 * jamespage
  * jamespage, smoser,  review all saucy BPs
 * smoser
  * jamespage, smoser,  review all saucy BPs



== People present (lines said) ==

 * arosales (142)
 * jamespage (56)
 * hallyn_ (17)
 * ubottu (8)
 * rbasak (7)
 * meetingology (7)
 * roaksoax (6)
 * gaughen (6)
 * psivaa (4)
 * zul (4)
 * smoser (1)



== Full Log ==


 16:03 <arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team

 16:03 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov 12 16:03:06 2013 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 16:03 <meetingology> 

 16:03 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired

 16:03 <arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting

 16:03 * arosales doesn't see any action items from the previous meeting

 16:03 <arosales> #topic Saucy Development

 16:04 <arosales> I guess we should update that to trusty dev

 16:04 <jamespage> done

 16:04 <arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule

 16:04 <arosales> Looks like next milestone is the Feature Definition Freeze

 16:04 <arosales> Alpha 1 on Dec 19th

 16:05 <arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs

 16:05 <jamespage> which means feature definition freeze is at the end of vUDS

 16:05 <arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server

 16:05 <arosales> jamespage, ah good point

 16:06 <arosales> be good to finalize those features in vUDS

 16:06 <arosales> so looking @ http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server

 16:06 <arosales> looks to have 27 bugs for ubuntu-server

 16:06 <jamespage> quite a few of those are SRU tasks for juju-core

 16:06 <jamespage> I got a bit carried away

 16:07 <arosales> jamespage, thanks or logging them

 16:07 <arosales> need to have those back into the lts

 16:07 <arosales> one critical bug

 16:07 <jamespage> arosales: I need to apply for a MRE for juju-core

 16:07 <arosales> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1229275

 16:07 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1229275 in maas (Ubuntu Saucy) "[maas] juju destroy-environment also destroys nodes that are not controlled by juju" [Critical,Triaged]

 16:07 <jamespage> yah

 16:07 <arosales> jamespage, +1 on MRE for juju-core, moving pretty fast am

 16:07 <jamespage> so all of the fixes are avaliable in the stable juju ppa

 16:07 <jamespage> but the distro package is now out-of-date

 16:08 <jamespage> for saucy

 16:08 <arosales> thus the SRUs

 16:08 <jamespage> yup

 16:08 <arosales> is 1229275 a fix in maas though?

 16:09 <jamespage> roaksoax, is the maas multi-env destroy fix already in proposed?

 16:09 <jamespage> that might be a dupe arosales

 16:09 <roaksoax> jamespage: yes

 16:09 <jamespage> roaksoax, ack

 16:09 <roaksoax> jamespage: in fact, is already released

 16:09 <jamespage> arosales: yes the maas tasks for that can be dropped

 16:09 <arosales> roaksoax, can you update 1229275

 16:10 <arosales> jamespage, ok if we hit the high unresolved bugs?

 16:10 <roaksoax> sure

 16:10 <arosales> roaksoax, thanks

 16:10 <jamespage> good with me

 16:10 <arosales> only one critical,

 16:10 <arosales> next are highs

 16:10 <arosales> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1208455

 16:10 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress]

 16:11 <arosales> looks like stefan bader is assigned

 16:11 <arosales> in progress and confirmed . .  .

 16:11 <arosales> looks like rbasak assigned this one

 16:12 <arosales> but no objections by stefan

 16:12 <jamespage> I'm not entirely sure why that is high

 16:12 <jamespage> smb is not here to defend his position!

 16:12 <arosales> looks like not action needed atm though

 16:12 <jamespage> agreed

 16:12 <rbasak> I think somebody probably told me to assign it when I wanted an assignment at a previous meeting.

 16:12 <jamespage> its an odd edge case IMHO

 16:12 <jamespage> rbasak, I remember that

 16:13 <arosales> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1245251

 16:13 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1245251 in libvirt (Ubuntu Saucy) "Apparmor blocks usb devices in libvirt in Saucy" [High,Confirmed]

 16:13 <rbasak> IMHO, we should either stop tracking it, or assign someone

 16:13 <hallyn_> that'll get fixed when we push 1.1.4 to trusty

 16:13 <rbasak> Then we can focus on the stuff we intend to fix.

 16:13 <arosales> hallyn_, is that for apparmor?

 16:13 <hallyn_> yes

 16:13 <arosales> hallyn_, thanks

 16:14 <arosales> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1199791

 16:14 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged]

 16:14 <arosales> the next ones are for zul

 16:14 <zul> uh?

 16:14 <arosales> zul I think you are the assignee

 16:14 <zul> oh wait..yeah still pending its going to be changing in the trusty cycle

 16:14 <arosales> ok

 16:14 <arosales> zul and for http://launchpad.net/bugs/1223010

 16:15 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1223010 in keystone (Ubuntu Saucy) "Use oauthlib rather than oauth." [High,Triaged]

 16:15 <zul> (damn daylight daying hours)

 16:15 <zul> arosales:  i talked to upstream last week they are going to be moving to oauthlib

 16:15 <arosales> zul thnks

 16:15 <arosales> thanks

 16:15 <arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/maas/+bug/1228085

 16:15 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1228085 in maas (Ubuntu Saucy) "The commissioning script 00-maas-03-install-lldpd outputs to stderr." [High,Triaged]

 16:15 <arosales> looks like gavin has a fix

 16:15 <arosales> but needs to be worked in saucy

 16:16 <arosales> roaksoax, any opinions?

 16:17 <arosales> jamespage, SRU needed here?

 16:17 <jamespage> the tasks are raised so most likely

 16:17 <arosales> jamespage, any actions needed for the SRUs?

 16:18 <arosales> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1236439

 16:18 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1236439 in neutron "switch to use hostnames like nova breaks upgrades of l3-agent" [Critical,Triaged]

 16:18 <roaksoax> arosales: that was fixed too

 16:18 <jamespage> arosales: yes - still needed

 16:19 <arosales> roaksoax, ah even better. Could you update the bug if it is indeed fixed in saucy and trusty

 16:19 <jamespage> roaksoax, is it?

 16:19 <jamespage> I just checked in 2.2

 16:19 <roaksoax> jamespage: yeah I fixed it differently, IIRC. Gonna have a deeper look

 16:20 <jamespage> arosales: that neutron bug is reference upstream inthe havana release notes

 16:20 <jamespage> roaksoax, ack

 16:20 <arosales> roaksoax, thanks, could you update the bug post your research?

 16:20 <jamespage> I've pinged upstream to see if a helper is going to appear for upgraders

 16:20 <arosales> jamespage, ack on the neutron bug

 16:20 <roaksoax> arosales: yup

 16:20 <arosales> roaksoax, thanks

 16:20 <arosales> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1242363

 16:20 <ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1242363 in puppet (Ubuntu Saucy) "Puppet package needs ruby-hiera (unmapped dep)" [High,Triaged]

 16:20 <arosales> puppet bug

 16:21 <arosales> packaging issue . .  .

 16:21 <arosales> rbasak, looks to confirmed ruby-hiera  fixes it

 16:21 <arosales> rbasak, next action needed to update puppet deps or add in ruby-hiera?

 16:21 <rbasak> It's on my list.

 16:22 <rbasak> I'm hoping to combine it with a merge when I get to it, and then SRU.

 16:22 <arosales> rbasak, would you like to assign yourself?

 16:22 <rbasak> Done

 16:22 <arosales> rbasak, thank you sir

 16:22 <arosales> thats the last high

 16:22 <arosales> have a few undecided that need triaged

 16:23 <arosales> I think most of them are around juju-core

 16:23 * arosales thinks those are the SRUs jamespage was referring to

 16:23 <jamespage> yes

 16:23 <arosales> #subtopic Blueprints

 16:23 <arosales> jamespage, smoser looks like we also need a trusty topic BP

 16:24 <jamespage> arosales: we do - is that something you can setup?

 16:24 <arosales> jamespage, sure

 16:24 <arosales> #action arosales to set up topic bp for server

 16:24 * meetingology arosales to set up topic bp for server

 16:24 <jamespage> for now - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu?searchtext=servercloud-1311

 16:24 <arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html

 16:24 <jamespage> that's what we have on the list for next week

 16:24 <arosales> we should postpone the rest of these though

 16:25 <jamespage> arosales: I'd leave it until after next week

 16:25 <jamespage> we can carry stuff over and close old bp's out

 16:25 <jamespage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BlueprintSpec

 16:25 <arosales> jamespage, smoser do you want to step through these and mark postponed as necessary?

 16:25 <arosales> jamespage, ack

 16:25 <jamespage> ^^ blueprint spec for new blueprints

 16:26 <arosales> #action jamespage, smoser,  review all saucy BPs

 16:26 * meetingology jamespage, smoser,  review all saucy BPs

 16:26 <smoser> deal

 16:26 <arosales> where is gaughen

 16:26 * arosales wanted to put in an action item there too

 16:27 <gaughen> I'm right here!

 16:27 <jamespage> I see gaughen

 16:27 * jamespage waves

 16:27 <arosales> #action gaughen review saucy BPs

 16:27 * meetingology gaughen review saucy BPs

 16:27 * gaughen waves back

 16:27 <arosales> ah autocomplete just failed me

 16:27 <arosales> action items set ;-)

 16:27 <arosales> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)

 16:27 <gaughen> k

 16:28 <jamespage> mia

 16:28 <arosales> ok

 16:28 <arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)

 16:29 <psivaa> nothing much from us apart from the fact that our services are down at the moment

 16:29 <psivaa> due to 1SS hardware move

 16:29 <jamespage> psivaa, any eta on returning service?

 16:29 * jamespage hates to ask

 16:30 <psivaa> jamespage: the core services should start late this evening and the rest will be tomorrow

 16:30 <jamespage> ack

 16:30 <arosales> psivaa, ok thanks for the update

 16:30 <psivaa> yw :)

 16:30 <arosales> any other questions for psivaa

 16:30 <arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)

 16:30 <jamespage> mia as well

 16:31 <arosales> jamespage, thanks for letting me know :-)

 16:31 <arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)

 16:31 <jamespage> we had one thing we where working on with kernel team

 16:31 <jamespage> openvswitch-dkms drop for 14.04

 16:31 <rbasak> Nothing new to report from me. Any questions?

 16:32 <jamespage> can't quite make it but all of the mainline features we need are in 3.13; only need dkms for experimental stuff

 16:32 <arosales> jamespage, need a vUDS session on that or all coordination happening in a bug?

 16:32 <jamespage> no

 16:33 * arosales takes it as no vuds sessions needed

 16:33 <jamespage> it will be covered in other sesssions

 16:33 <arosales> jamespage, ack

 16:33 <arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events

 16:33 <arosales> so lots of stuff wrapping up

 16:33 <arosales> ODS

 16:33 <arosales> RubyConf last  week

 16:33 <arosales> AWS re:Invent this week

 16:34 <arosales> any other events?

 16:34 <arosales> #topic Open Discussion

 16:35 <arosales> all folks in-line with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BlueprintSpec ?

 16:36 <arosales> jamespage one point of feedback I got, perhaps around "user acceptance"

 16:36 <arosales> is how do we know this particular feature is a "success"

 16:36 <arosales> ie what is the metric to measure the bp was actually successfully

 16:37 <arosales> jamespage, thoughts?

 16:37 <jamespage> its quite subjective; but it could be anything from some dep-8 tests to a more detail decription on how to use a new feature in the docs

 16:37 <hallyn_> or does 'feature is a success' mean that the users got what they wanted?

 16:38 <jamespage> actually that's a good point - 14.04 will have associated ubuntu-server docs; so don't forget to include doc tasks in your blueprints

 16:38 <arosales> sorry, its more of what the folks working on the BP define as success

 16:38 <jamespage> hallyn_, I think it means that you can demonstrate how the use cases documented are fulfilled

 16:38 <arosales> ie if dep-8 test pass that is a _metric_ for success

 16:38 <arosales> but that is definitive, and measurable.

 16:39 <arosales> it should tie directly to the goal, but be more straightforward on how the goal is going to be specifically meet.

 16:40 <arosales> basically what are tangible working towards, and how do we know we are done

 16:40 <arosales> thoughts?

 16:40 <arosales> perhaps this is covered in an existing template point . . .

 16:41 <arosales> crickets

 16:41 <jamespage> those are the ones in my head doing that

 16:41 <gaughen> so I'm way late here - but another event  coming up is vUDS

 16:42 <jamespage> I think it comes down to how do you demonstrate that a feature is implemented

 16:42 <arosales> jamespage, correct

 16:42 <arosales> jamespage, basically I was looking for a way to document _when_ the feature is complete.

 16:42 <hallyn_> that's the halting problem

 16:43 <arosales> hallyn_, please expand

 16:43 <arosales> gaughen, good point on http://uds.ubuntu.com/

 16:43 <arosales> #link http://uds.ubuntu.com/

 16:43 <gaughen> arosales, it's on my mind because of having to host some sessions ;-)

 16:43 <hallyn_> arosales: nah, just being a wiseass

 16:43 <arosales> hallyn_, jamespage so any bp work we define should have a deliverable we can measure and define as done

 16:43 <gaughen> arosales, it's hallyn_'s turn today to be the wiseass

 16:43 <jamespage> yup

 16:44 <arosales> if we don't have that how do we know it was done and done well?

 16:44 <jamespage> so when arosales comes along and say - show me - you can point and say - there!

 16:44 <jamespage> and he can try it himself!

 16:44 <arosales> yup, no ambiguity as to what is going to be delivered.

 16:45 <hallyn_> the bp tracks the work items.  we mark them as done.  we trust that we dont' mark them as done if they're not.  you're asking for something higher level.

 16:45 <arosales> ie _this_ is what we are defining for delivery of this feature and what we will call success

 16:45 <arosales> success = we delivered what we set out to and meet user stories and the goal

 16:45 <arosales> but needs to be tangible, and quantifiable

 16:45 <hallyn_> each work item is that

 16:46 <arosales> hallyn_, so those are pieces

 16:46 <arosales> what are those pieces incrementally working to deliver?

 16:46 <arosales> hallyn_, not high level

 16:46 <hallyn_> as someone said, that's the user stories

 16:47 <arosales> hallyn_, what I am looking for when all work items are done what specifically did the BP deliver?

 16:47 <arosales> is it?

 16:47 <hallyn_> arosales: user stories.  i know what you're getting at, but i don't think it's a good use of our time to try and build test cases - and run them - for each user story

 16:48 <hallyn_> maybe it is, in which case we may have to have fewer work items so we have time for that

 16:48 <hallyn_> but i think that's what uds is for each time - gauge last cycle, plan next.

 16:48 <hallyn_> anyway maybe we ned to discuss elsewhere

 16:49 <arosales> sure, I just don't think we are doing a great job of stating what is tangibly delivered

 16:49 <arosales> hallyn_, not a test case for each user story

 16:49 <arosales> just a specific deliverable stating what this BP is going to be delivered, that we can measure

 16:49 <arosales> perhaps that sets better in the goal

 16:49 <arosales> if the goal is written well. . .

 16:50 <arosales> in any case I have beaten that to death

 16:50 <arosales> I"ll try to write up something for the goal section

 16:50 <hallyn_> ok

 16:50 <arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time

 16:51 <arosales> Tuesday 2013-11-19 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting

 16:51 <hallyn_> let's not

 16:51 <arosales> thanks for joining

 16:51 <hallyn_> arosales: that's uds

 16:51 <jamespage> thanks arosales

 16:51 <arosales> hallyn_, ah good point

 16:51 <hallyn_> nov 26?

 16:51 <arosales> #action arosales send email to server list to cancel Nov 19 server meeting in liu of UDS

 16:51 * meetingology arosales send email to server list to cancel Nov 19 server meeting in liu of UDS

 16:52 <arosales> nov 26 may collide with us holidy too

 16:52 <hallyn_> eeeeh, maybe.  i'll be here.  misses by 2 days.

 16:52 <arosales> Thanksgiving may later in the week

 16:53 <arosales> Tuesday 2013-11-26 at 1600 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting

 16:53 <arosales> thanks everyone

 16:53 <arosales> #endmeeting



Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)