19:05:51 <notgary> #startmeeting One Hundred Paper Cuts meeting for 19th Feb 2013
19:05:51 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 19 19:05:51 2013 UTC.  The chair is notgary. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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19:06:23 <notgary> BobJonkman: The lurk away my friend. If you have anything to say, then just go ahead and say it. don;t worry about interrupting
19:06:33 <BobJonkman> notgary: Thanx!
19:06:43 <notgary> #meetingtopic Review of previous meeting minutes
19:07:13 <notgary> #meetingtopic One Hundred Paper Cuts meeting for 19th Feb 2013
19:07:25 <notgary> #topic Review of previous meeting minutes
19:07:31 <notgary> That's better
19:07:45 <notgary> The agenda for this meeting can be found here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneHundredPaperCuts/Meetings/19Feb2013
19:08:13 <notgary> Item 1, review of the last meetings minutes
19:08:50 <notgary> which can be found here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneHundredPaperCuts/Meetings/24Jan2013#Outcome
19:08:57 <notgary> The first relevant part was Developer week
19:09:09 <druellan> OH, I'm still supposed to talk about all thouse items?
19:09:20 <notgary> Yep
19:09:29 <notgary> they're on this weeks agenda though
19:09:32 <notgary> so don't worry
19:09:48 <druellan> No problem, carry on.
19:10:09 <notgary> the original plan for Developer Week was to produce a couple of videos
19:10:22 <notgary> One showing the user how to download and build the source for Rhythmbox
19:10:27 <notgary> and another doing the same for Unity
19:10:34 <notgary> Neither were done :P
19:10:45 <notgary> which is what I was supposed to do.
19:10:47 <notgary> :P
19:11:03 <notgary> I'm going to put them off for the Global Jam next weekend
19:11:29 <notgary> and try and get a Google+ Hanhout going with Jose, so people can watch them in real time and ask questions
19:11:58 <druellan> Ubuntu communty on G+ is getting some traction now
19:11:58 <notgary> We also decided we needed a more coherent strategy for attractting new contributors
19:12:08 <notgary> I've noticed
19:12:09 <notgary> :P
19:12:17 <notgary> G+ seems to be setting some as well
19:12:21 <notgary> but I digress :P
19:13:01 <notgary> I had planned to reach out to Daniel Holbach to discuss some new ideas for getting people interested in contributing to Ubuntu, which I didm;t get round to doing
19:13:09 <notgary> Jeez I'm bad at getting things done :P
19:13:28 <notgary> The next item we decided on was to hold regular meetings
19:13:58 <notgary> We didm;t do so well for the couple of weeks after that one, but hopefully this one we're in now will be the start of a new dawn for paper cuts meetings :)
19:14:17 <druellan> well, about the per week meetings
19:14:29 <notgary> Shoot
19:14:29 <druellan> its good if you need to quickly be in touch with people
19:14:54 <druellan> but is hard to promote, I mean, if you have a meeting too often you loose some traction
19:15:31 <notgary> how so?
19:15:54 <druellan> sorry, phone
19:17:13 <notgary> What do you mean by 'lose some traction'? Do you think people will lose interest if we have too many meetings?
19:18:11 <notgary> druellan: you still there?
19:18:38 <druellan> I'm here, sorry. Yes, I believe that cen be the case, but we can use the current schedule to prove me wrong
19:18:41 <cprofitt> notgary: this is focused on papercuts?
19:18:51 <notgary> cprofitt: yep
19:18:56 * cprofitt nods
19:19:27 <notgary> I'd taken the idea from the weekly meetings the kernel and desktop team were having
19:19:33 <notgary> thinking it might be good for us too
19:19:52 <cprofitt> I think regular meetings help keep a team focused
19:20:08 <notgary> that was my thinking
19:20:12 <cprofitt> but regular does not have to be a every week or every other week
19:20:32 <cprofitt> irc meetings can cause some to feel they are losing touch with the team if they can not make meetings
19:20:39 <druellan> Yes, I have the feeling that per week maybe can be too often
19:20:45 <cprofitt> with the timezone issue that is often a fact of life
19:21:04 <druellan> since a papercutter is more a hobbyst than a regular contrbutor
19:21:24 <cprofitt> I think ensuring that you summarize the meetings on the mailing list and the wiki helps avoid that
19:21:37 <cprofitt> but with one team I was on decision were made in meetings via vote
19:21:51 <cprofitt> and some people became frustrated because they were never able to vote
19:22:31 <notgary> I wanted to use the meetings as a place where team members would come together in real time, and where new contributors could come in and speak with them. Perhaps a better idea than a single hour long meeting each week could be "On tuesday's between 6pm and 10pm you're guaranteed to find paper cutters on IRC. Come talk to them"
19:22:48 <notgary> So it;s  a lot less formal
19:22:50 <cprofitt> notgary: I think that is an excellent idea
19:23:04 <cprofitt> not so much a meeting, but a 'work' session
19:23:13 <druellan> cprofitt: well, a meeting per two week or per mounth you get sure you make the time to assits, per week is usually more difficult if you're bussy or your timezone
19:23:26 <cprofitt> perhaps extend that to having team members be able to fill time slots
19:23:45 <cprofitt> that would allow people in different TZs to mentor too
19:23:56 <notgary> Great idea
19:24:43 <notgary> Shall we vote on it, since it might be our last meeting for a while :P
19:24:46 <cprofitt> your team is one I have wanted to get involved with for a while, but the three children keep be busy
19:25:52 <notgary> Excellent. Well I hope you manage to find some time. Even just an hour a week can make a world of difference
19:26:07 <notgary> Anyway
19:26:19 <notgary> Lets move onto this weeks agenda
19:26:32 <notgary> #topic what are we working on
19:27:08 <notgary> One thing I've learned from my job is that it's very useful for team members to briefly tell each other what they're working on and what problems they're currently facing with the task
19:27:20 <notgary> And I'd like to try that out here
19:27:22 <notgary> I'll go first
19:27:47 <notgary> I'm currently putting together ideas for some events during the global Jam next weekend
19:27:58 <notgary> I've left it too late to organise a physical event
19:28:05 <notgary> So I'm going to host it in IRC this time round
19:28:17 <notgary> It'll run along two tracks
19:28:25 <notgary> Bug triage and development tutorials
19:28:37 <notgary> Those videos I mentioned earlier, about how to build some of the packages
19:28:46 <notgary> Will be reorded then
19:28:49 <notgary> *recorded
19:29:13 <notgary> I also want to try and get some people together and trawl through the backlog of bugs on some of the core GTK+ packages
19:29:32 <notgary> and try and touch as many of them as possible, forwarding relevant ones to the paper cuts team in the process
19:29:43 <notgary> Not really got a lot of problems with it so far
19:29:51 <notgary> druellan: over to you
19:30:41 <druellan> Well, I was trying to get into a meeting :P
19:30:45 <notgary> :)
19:30:58 <druellan> To expose the topics I posted on the wiki
19:31:31 <notgary> You mean the ones you were going to discuss last time?
19:31:35 <druellan> Basically, since I was away on holidays, somehow disconnected
19:32:18 <druellan> I found diffucult to understand what was going on in here, so, thats way I proposed this topics to discuss
19:34:07 <notgary> Would you prefer to discuss them outside of the meeting, such as on the mailing list or IRC?
19:34:18 <notgary> It seems like you're having some connection issues.
19:34:41 <druellan> Yes, sorry I'm a bit complicated right now
19:34:49 <notgary> No worries mate
19:34:59 <druellan> I send a mail to you and the ninja list explaining some of the ideas
19:35:06 <notgary> Cool
19:35:14 <druellan> If you like I can try to quickly explain them here
19:35:28 <druellan> (if I remember all of them :p)
19:35:51 <notgary> The wiki: the landing page.
19:35:52 <notgary> Impressions about the new wiki organization.
19:35:53 <notgary> The new Dojo.
19:35:54 <notgary> Whats everybody doing right now? Milestones and crowdfixing bugs.
19:35:55 <notgary> Papercuts Ninjas: to fix, to triage or both (why I need to be a ninja)?
19:35:56 <notgary> Papercutters superninjas?
19:36:00 <notgary> thats what you posted to the wiki agenda
19:36:27 <notgary> Wow, seems like there was some kind of collision there
19:36:56 <druellan> Yes, half of them I don't remember whats about, but I'll try
19:37:08 <notgary> If you can't remember, then don;t worry about it just now
19:37:19 <notgary> Just write it in an email. that'll be better for all.
19:37:29 <druellan> The thing is, when we started focusing in apps
19:37:47 <druellan> The cycle where tied to a calendar
19:38:00 <druellan> say, one app per mouth, is that correct?
19:38:10 <druellan> mounth
19:38:52 <notgary> Sorry about that
19:38:54 <druellan> Wow, you're all right?
19:39:09 <notgary> Got my IRC client a bit messed up when I pasted multiple lines of text in
19:39:42 <druellan> No prob
19:39:43 <notgary> druellan: Do you want to wait until later before discussion this stuff, to give you a bit of time to think about it?
19:40:01 <druellan> I'll try to expose the main idea now if you like
19:40:10 <notgary> If it's not too much troubble
19:40:50 <druellan> I was saying, if I'm not mistaken, when we started focusing on one app per cycle
19:41:14 <druellan> Cycles where tied to a calendar , say, one per month, is that correct?
19:41:32 <notgary> Yep
19:42:09 <druellan> Well, when we discovered that GTK+ and Compiz where important, things started to behave more kahotic
19:43:00 <druellan> I think we're loosing the potential that an app per cycle can give us in terms of attracting more people to the project.
19:43:27 <notgary> I see what you're saying
19:43:46 <druellan> If, for example
19:43:56 <druellan> we are currently on "Nautilus Cycle"
19:44:44 <druellan> First, we can have a title on the wiki saying: "we are currently healing Nautilus, come along"
19:44:59 <druellan> We can on advance have some sort of tutorial in place, in the dojo
19:45:28 <druellan> If people come here trying to learn how to patch, is more likely that other devs can help them
19:46:12 <druellan> And, we can advertise cycles this way
19:47:07 <druellan> Just and idea
19:48:31 <notgary> It sounds good. I've had some doubts about moving away for focused milestones as well. There's roughly two months left on the R-cycle, so we can move some things around and work on two apps during that time. How about Rhythmbox and Nautilus?
19:49:36 <druellan> I think the key is to advertise we are now working on this or that, this way newcommers can know what to do
19:50:22 <druellan> Rhythmbox cycle was very successful
19:50:30 <druellan> we can give it a proper closure
19:51:05 <notgary> Indeed
19:51:22 <druellan> Oh, another thing, if we focus on an app per calendar, we can contact upstream in advnace and say: "this month we are going to bother you a lot!"
19:51:55 <notgary> Yeah, that worked well for us with Rhytmbox. We contact them, and a week later they'd fixed a bunch of the bugs themselves :)
19:52:05 <notgary> Anyway
19:52:10 <notgary> we'll do things that way
19:52:16 <notgary> Next item
19:52:29 <notgary> #topic Review of original goals for Raring
19:52:35 <notgary> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneHundredPaperCuts/Raring
19:52:46 <notgary> I put that together at the start of the Raring cycle
19:52:55 <notgary> and proceeded to not look at it again until last week :P
19:53:12 <notgary> I won;t go into the details with the little time we have left
19:53:34 <notgary> but there's a lot of stuff on there that I'd like to try and focus on clearing
19:53:39 <notgary> before the end of the cycle
19:53:53 <notgary> such as clearing the backlog of New and Incomplete
19:53:54 <notgary> bug
19:53:56 <druellan> yes, the "indentify bugs" table was a good idea
19:54:35 <notgary> The Global Jam events I mentioned earlier will help us with that table
19:55:00 <notgary> If we have a lot of volunteers on IRC over that weened all working through the backlogs
19:55:08 <notgary> we should be all set for the next cycle
19:55:16 <notgary> with a healthy backlog of bugs to see us through
19:55:34 <notgary> But yeah
19:55:44 <notgary> I just wanted to bring this to people's attention
19:55:55 <druellan> Are you going to propose Nautilus and Rhythmbox, or anything they can catch?
19:56:37 <notgary> anything they can catch. the goal I have for that weekend is to send as many bugs our way as possible, so we can pick out the good ones to work on during the S-Cycle
19:57:00 <druellan> Ok
19:57:35 <notgary> That's about it for me. We've covered everything I wanted to talk about, though maybe not in the order they were listed on the wiki :P
19:58:03 <notgary> druellan: BobJonkman: cprofitt You guys got anything you'd like to add?
19:58:11 <notgary> Or any other lurkers out there?
19:58:24 <BobJonkman> Nothing from me....
19:58:27 <druellan> I think thats all, next meeting I can talk about other things on that list
19:58:48 <notgary> Cool
19:58:58 <notgary> Well if no one has anything else, then...
19:59:00 <notgary> #endmeeting