18:07:30 #startmeeting 18:07:30 Meeting started Fri Feb 15 18:07:30 2013 UTC. The chair is tgm4883. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 18:07:30 18:07:30 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 18:07:34 I don't have anything really 18:07:39 #chair CrestedNewt tgm4883 18:07:39 Current chairs: CrestedNewt tgm4883 18:08:00 I'll let CrestedNewt lead this meeting 18:08:28 OK, I had a Google hangout with bobweaver last sunday which was great 18:08:54 'after' he had his coffee - so hopefully he will be back in a minute 18:09:03 3 min 18:09:43 OK 18:09:56 #Topic arm port 18:10:05 we are ready and have a img 18:10:09 #chair CrestedNewt tgm4883 bobweaver 18:10:09 Current chairs: CrestedNewt bobweaver tgm4883 18:10:15 #Topic arm port 18:10:35 thing is I am trying to get virtual arm set up 18:10:54 I got a letter from canonical saying that there going to get me some hardware to test on 18:10:58 (will ) 18:11:12 we will see how that works out 18:11:17 OK, Bobweaver, I have contacted ARM in the UK looking for a good match for you in the USA to get you a board. I have had no response as yet so I am planning on talking to them on Monday. 18:11:32 cool CrestedNewt 18:11:58 any more questions about arm? 18:12:14 #action CrestedNewt - chase up ARM re supplier of ARM boards in USA 18:12:14 * meetingology CrestedNewt - chase up ARM re supplier of ARM boards in USA 18:12:41 #action bobweaver needs to stay in touch with canonical 18:12:41 * meetingology bobweaver needs to stay in touch with canonical 18:12:56 #topic Qt5/qml2 18:13:13 so I am porting weverything over to qt5/qml2 18:13:28 this is a big thing and is going to take me some time 18:13:59 good news about this is though I almost have all the tools that are needed for unity 2d to be running on qt5/qml2 18:14:26 then on the 21 (if I get done by then) I will be porting it all to the Phone 18:14:39 * tgm4883 tries to not make a comment about duke nukem 18:14:58 #action keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5 18:14:58 * meetingology keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5 18:15:28 #action keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5 18:15:28 * meetingology keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5 18:15:49 Is the phone OS still due out the end of this month or has that date lapsed doe we know? 18:15:57 feb 21 18:15:58 bobweaver, you're suppose to put your nick in there as well 18:16:04 woops 18:16:09 there is 3 of us lol 18:16:35 any more questions about qt5/qml2 ? 18:16:46 #action bobweaver keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5 18:16:46 * meetingology bobweaver keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5 18:17:02 #action bobweaver keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5 18:17:02 * meetingology bobweaver keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5 18:17:08 I have none 18:17:17 tgm4883, ? 18:17:27 I have no questions 18:17:34 #topic wayland 18:17:59 one can run wayland (if they have the hardware) and qt5 lets us do this 18:18:18 OK, apologies for being a bit backward here - what is wayland? 18:18:20 I will be pushing a example of this after porting of qt5 is done 18:18:26 !wayland 18:18:34 stupid bot 18:18:37 !X 18:18:38 The X Window System is the part of your system that's responsible for graphical output. To restart your X, type « sudo /etc/init.d/?dm restart » in a console - To fix screen resolution or other X problems: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Resolution 18:18:42 * tgm4883 wonders why were worrying about wayland 18:19:01 because it is cool 18:19:12 and I like the idea 18:19:33 bobweaver, ah, so Ubuntu TV is going to be the new Duke Nukem Forever? 18:19:57 CrestedNewt, if wayland is a servre just like X 18:20:06 I've just looked it up :D 18:20:21 But that said I want 3 different ports 18:20:49 1) wayland 2) X ok only 2 at the moment 18:21:17 tgm4883, it is not that I am going to target wayland it is more that it works so why not show it off :) 18:21:28 I don't see why it should matter, as long as the toolkit supports the underlying display server (which Qt does) 18:21:35 and (I dont know what Duke Nukem is 18:21:48 bobweaver: it's a game that's been in development for like 20 years 18:21:55 bobweaver, I would like to have a downloadable, supported ISO at some point 18:22:07 mhall119, it was released after 15 years of development 18:22:14 tgm4883: they released it? 18:22:19 when did that happen? 18:22:25 then make it what does that have to do with wayland or display server ? 18:22:41 bobweaver, mhall119 and the reason it was in development for 15 years, was because they'd get close to releasing it then see a new cool technology that was out that they had to use 18:22:48 mhall119, yes, it got pretty bad reviews 18:22:52 ahh I see 18:23:11 bobweaver: it's usually a reference made when software is in a constant state of "almost ready to release" and they goes back for more changes 18:23:14 #action tell people that make thoughts to stop thinking 18:23:14 * meetingology tell people that make thoughts to stop thinking 18:23:25 bobweaver, mhall119 the length of time something is in development is directly proportional to what the community expects from it 18:23:31 Basically what tgm4883 is saying is that we need to concentrate on getting an image out that works currently. Am I correct? 18:23:45 there is one image out there that works 18:23:45 so the longer it takes to make something, the more perfect it better be 18:23:55 the good news is that bobweaver will soon have all the Phone code available 18:24:08 I don't know of a single supported ISO for Ubuntu TV 18:24:22 Yea I don't see Ubuntu TV listed at http://releases.ubuntu.com/ 18:24:32 only on 12.04 but it is something. Or people can use 11.10 and the crazy old one 18:24:43 tgm4883, want to be incharge of that ? 18:24:47 tgm4883: it's not an official release so it won't be hosted there 18:24:48 #topic ISO 18:24:57 See 18:24:58 mhall119, why not 18:25:06 everything that I do gets roadblocked 18:25:17 tgm4883: technical and legal reasons, really 18:25:18 or "Duke Nukemed " 18:25:26 mhall119, Mythbuntu is listed there 18:25:43 isn't mythbuntu a supported flavor? 18:25:52 mhall119, define supported 18:25:55 it is 18:25:56 so lets just tell people to install that for now 18:26:10 and "recognised flavor" is the term 18:26:11 I could make a iso or see if orga will elp me 18:26:19 definition: what pleia2 says :) 18:26:25 mhall119, I mean, if our aim isn't to become a recognised flavor, then what is the point of this project? 18:26:41 tgm4883: the aim is to be fully integrated into Unity itself 18:26:43 +1 18:26:52 then hire unity developers 18:27:02 I am sick and tired of all this talk 18:27:02 we're working on that 18:27:10 port to this No port to tha t 18:27:14 mhall119, I mean, at one point there were even paid developers for Ubuntu TV, which is far more than Mythbuntu has 18:27:19 bobweaver: I understand the frustration 18:27:34 All I want is a working TV and I have that 18:27:42 I dont care if it is part of Ubuntu 18:27:49 But it does say things about Ubuntu 18:27:54 tgm4883: Ubuntu TV wasn't every supposed to be a separate installation though, it was just supposed to be "Ubuntu" with a TV-friendly configuration of Unity 18:27:59 I am so confued 18:28:13 I get emails from canonical people telling me that qml2 is the future 18:28:23 then I hear that Nux is the future 18:28:26 mhall119, what you just said is far more information that was said to the public 18:28:44 tgm4883: it is? I thought we were clear on that from the get-go 18:28:53 if not, I apologize, we should have been 18:28:57 again lets see how the phone is tied in 18:29:06 mhall119, my understanding is that it was going to be preloaded on TV's 18:29:18 mhall119, which is one of the reasons I'm here, to prevent that from being the only option 18:29:21 the intent is to eventually have just one "Unity" codebase that can change between desktop, mobile and TV layouts 18:29:32 I'm getting a bit pessimistic about this project :/ 18:29:32 what ever it does not matter that I code 100's of hours 18:29:37 and port all this stuff 18:29:49 OK, I have come to the game late in the day... I need to pull together everything that I can so that we can have a 'route plan' to get this working AND to keep everyone happy. 18:29:51 all I care about is a working tv at my house 18:29:57 you all can use it if you like 18:30:02 This has all the markings of a Canonical project, without any of the canonical backing it seems 18:30:14 tgm4883: pre-loading on TVs was the distribution plan, since providing installers for TVs wasn't a very attractive option 18:30:15 Until canonical makes up there mind I am not doing anyuthing more for TV 18:30:31 mhall119, personally, IMO it was a bad plan 18:30:42 OK, bobweaver, send me the names of people I can meet face to face in London 18:30:54 #action make iso and 18:30:54 * meetingology make iso and 18:31:01 mhall119, should have targeted a arm chip that you could plug into an HDMI port 18:31:10 LOL 18:31:29 tgm4883: the target was any hardware that could run Ubuntu 18:31:40 which included a variety of ARM devices with HDMI out 18:31:45 mhall119, all that aside, it doesn't help that "canonical" says "unity unity unity", then bobweaver does all the work 18:32:05 and CANONICAL IS NOT SAYING UNITY UNITY UNTIY 18:32:08 tgm4883: I agree, and bobweaver knows I've been doing everything in my power to get more resources available 18:32:11 mhall119, I mean, I like unity, but at this point i'd rather ask bobweaver to work on mythfrontend since it doesn't change so much 18:32:14 or at least that is the emails that I get 18:32:31 bobweaver, when this project started, that is exactly what was being said 18:32:38 tgm4883: I do share your frustrations, I really do 18:32:41 I can get to the Canonical London offices easy enough. Who do I need to meet up with? 18:32:59 CrestedNewt: for what? 18:33:10 bobweaver, I know, because a few of us asked why we aren't using projects that are already existing 18:33:14 to get some backing or whatever you guys NEED from them 18:33:29 #aaction bobweaver introduce CrestedNewt to key people 18:33:36 #action bobweaver introduce CrestedNewt to key people 18:33:36 * meetingology bobweaver introduce CrestedNewt to key people 18:33:55 CrestedNewt: What you going to do when you get to the office? 18:33:58 mhall119, I just wish this wasn't a project that canonical was half into 18:34:00 I like how CrestedNewt is busness minded somethin g that I am not 18:34:03 either be in or get out 18:34:08 CrestedNewt: it wouldn't be someone in London 18:34:14 ok no more Unity fights please 18:34:18 tgm4883: we all wish that 18:34:28 If they want to use unity then that is up to them 18:34:32 bottom line ! 18:34:35 I need to talk to tgm4883, bobweave and mhall119 offline to pull together an agenda. If the problems are 'blockages' let me see if I can unblock these 18:34:51 * tgm4883 is unsure who CrestedNewt represents 18:35:01 the TEAM 18:35:11 #action bobweaver set up google hangout with CrestedNewt and tgm4883 and anyone else that wants to work on this team 18:35:11 * meetingology bobweaver set up google hangout with CrestedNewt and tgm4883 and anyone else that wants to work on this team 18:35:21 CrestedNewt: the main problem is resources, or rather the finite nature of them 18:35:25 CrestedNewt, bobweaver and I are community. mhall119 is canonical. I'm unsure which you are 18:35:40 Any more questions about ISO ? 18:35:45 !topic 18:35:46 Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic 18:35:47 I am community 18:35:53 CrestedNewt, ok 18:35:59 I can help manually roll an ISO if need be, but that's about all the experience I have 18:36:02 well that did not work out like I liked 18:36:06 #topic 18:36:11 ERGHHH 18:36:14 sorry 18:36:31 Ok if no one else has questions about ISO lets move on 18:36:49 #topic remote 18:37:10 I have made a qml2 remote that controls mythfront ends from other devices 18:37:22 so that remote can be phone or tablet 18:37:34 it uses mythtv services api 18:37:42 quesstions comments ? 18:38:06 I want to make a youtube vid for you on something that someone else uses 18:38:19 it won't be today but hopeully over the weekend 18:38:23 cool 18:38:43 tgm4883, is there anything in the remote that the services dont offerer that you think it should ? 18:38:46 ssh 18:38:49 ect 18:38:59 hmm 18:39:04 #action CrestedNewt - make youtube video of 'other' PVR system 18:39:04 * meetingology CrestedNewt - make youtube video of 'other' PVR system 18:39:12 I'd have to look at the services APi for the frontend 18:39:45 #action tgm4883 look at services for front end and find more cool stuf 18:39:45 * meetingology tgm4883 look at services for front end and find more cool stuf 18:40:31 any more questions about the remotes ? 18:40:36 I mean, I don't exactly know what we're using the mythfrontend for, but we'll need some sort of interface anyway for remotes 18:40:54 because this is not Ubuntu TV anymore 18:40:57 mhall119, can you say anything about what saviq was working on with remotes? 18:41:00 that is what people say 18:41:15 see that is the shit that I am talking about ^^^^ 18:41:53 #topic Name and keeping bob from ripping his hair out 18:41:55 OK bobweaver, let's keep frustration low atm please. We will get there. 18:42:18 I am done dealing with do this no do that I am just going to do what I love 18:42:30 I am no longer part of the Ubuntu TV priject 18:42:35 tgm4883: sorry, I don't know anything about remote work 18:42:45 as they (canonical ) has all the people they need for this 18:43:02 we reallydon't 18:43:11 and they do not talk to me about remotes and stuff like that so I waste my time over and over again 18:43:48 OK, change of tack then.... how about a web front end built into the TV which can be controlled from any device? 18:43:48 If They do not like what I am doing then they can use the many people that are developing this in house 18:44:29 #action bobweaver make a choice if he is part of this team with canonical or if he is just getting run a-stray 18:44:29 * meetingology bobweaver make a choice if he is part of this team with canonical or if he is just getting run a-stray 18:44:41 that is up to canonical and not me 18:45:08 untill they make that choice and until they can make a choice on how they are going to do things I am out 18:45:21 * tgm4883 wonders where this meeting went off track 18:45:40 me too! 18:45:44 I am done developing things for hours to be told what I am doing isnot some "designers" Idea 18:46:03 sorry guys but this is huge 18:46:12 either this is part of Ubuntu TV or it is not 18:46:18 this needs to be talked about 18:46:27 bobweaver: I made clear from the outset that things had to follow the design spec in order to be accepted for inclusion 18:46:45 mhall119, who is the PM of Ubuntu TV 18:46:46 that's what the "product" was supposed to be 18:46:46 we as a community can not be working at this with no idea of what some "designer is going to do " 18:46:46 bobweaver - I think that this is destined to be integrated fully into Ubuntu 18:47:06 tgm4883: Will Cooke is the development manager 18:47:09 Ok so let me tell you all this 18:47:27 1) ubuntu tv has been in unity 3d fro 2 cycles now 18:47:32 there isn't a separate "PM" necessarily, that I know of anywya 18:47:33 sence 11.10 18:47:35 mhall119, nothing against will cooke, but I haven't seen him at any of these meetings. Indicating to me that what we are doing is pointless 18:47:52 +1 18:47:57 tgm4883, I talk to will all the time 18:48:06 well not all the time 18:48:06 tgm4883: Will and his team were tasked with getting the multi-media bits of the Phone done 18:48:13 1 or twice a week 18:48:29 mhall119, if he's the development manager, he should be managing the developers of Ubuntu TV at some point. AFAIK, that is bobweaver 18:48:29 which is why they haven't been actively engaged with the TV work 18:48:43 tgm4883: well, yes and no 18:48:52 So back to unity go ahead and open up dconf editor and use Unity 3d TV that is ubuntu TV 18:48:54 LOL 18:49:02 to a large extent that's my job, as a community manager, to work between Canonical and Community 18:49:37 Ubuntu TV is for now that and that is what it will stay until I get something in writing 18:49:42 Will is responsible for his direct reports and his official tasks from Canonical 18:49:43 mhall119, unless there are developers at canonical working on this, then IMO it's a community project 18:50:00 tgm4883: at the moment that is the case, yes 18:50:09 Will and jhodpp are awesome and willing to take and anwser emails 18:50:42 So again I am going to change all the wiki to tell people to use 11.10 or Ubuntu TV via Unity 3d 18:50:47 mhall119, then at some point, the community is going to get tired of Canonical being half in this and either take over the project or dump it 18:50:53 #action bobweaver change all the wiki stuff 18:50:53 * meetingology bobweaver change all the wiki stuff 18:50:59 OK.... Let us take a step backwards and let's get all our ducks in a row so to speak. 18:51:20 tgm4883: I would encourage the community to take the initiative on development, but to try and follow the provided design spec 18:51:34 mhall119 - could you send me the original remit please? 18:51:40 remit? 18:52:01 community does not want to develop in NUX 18:52:02 what was expected from this project, the framework it has to adhere to, etc etc 18:52:04 mhall119, basically, from a comunity POV, canonical said "here is the design spec, make it happen" 18:52:10 bobweaver: undestood 18:52:20 community does not want to do alot of things that "Designers" are talking about 18:52:33 bobweaver: programmers rarely do ;) 18:52:42 community does not want to be told one thing then 2 weeks later something else 18:52:59 mhall119, my understanding is that things keep changing too much 18:53:04 bobweaver: if it's any comfort, community are not the only ones suffering that 18:53:11 community does not want to be told that qml2 is the future then they come to meetings and hear different 18:53:36 bobweaver: there are many voices with many opinions in Canonical 18:53:51 #action bobweaver get a hold of will and Jim and saviq and see if they will do a hang out to get this out in the open 18:53:51 * meetingology bobweaver get a hold of will and Jim and saviq and see if they will do a hang out to get this out in the open 18:54:20 bobweaver: the most official answer I have for you on that is that Qt5/QML2 is the future for our app development SDK 18:54:29 mhall119, you know that this is killing the TV today right ? 18:54:33 but that doesn't necessarily many anything for the future of Unity's foundations 18:54:37 mhall119, but if bobweaver & tgm4883 have been working on something, according to original remit, and the goal posts change.... there is a problem that needs to be sorted 18:55:00 CrestedNewt: I will try and find the design spec that was provided 18:55:11 mhall119, thanks :D 18:55:17 CrestedNewt: but for the technology, the direction was to use Unity3d and Nux 18:55:21 oh designers 18:55:29 :) 18:55:38 which has not been easy 18:55:47 I understand 18:56:06 #action get mark to talk to me about future of TV and ho it is going to run on Phone also talk about the future of the dash 18:56:06 * meetingology get mark to talk to me about future of TV and ho it is going to run on Phone also talk about the future of the dash 18:56:34 er I forgot my name again sorry 18:56:53 mhall119, then find a community that wants to do that 18:57:04 bobweaver: I've tried :) 18:57:17 as I have said like a broken record TV mode is on unity 3d 18:57:24 tell people to use it 18:57:36 see what they thing :D 18:57:40 TV mode is available on Unity 3d? 18:57:49 YEAH @ cycles NOW 18:57:54 2 * 18:58:00 does it look different from desktop Unity? 18:58:08 try it 18:58:11 how? 18:58:21 change the dconf formfactor 18:58:40 ok ladies and gents, time is short.I think that certain frustrations have come to light today, which although not great, means that we have a reference point with which to work from and move forwards. 18:58:41 my understanding was that your work was all being done on Unity 2d 18:58:55 no it has not mhall119 18:59:11 I have been told 4 different tthings at 4 different points 18:59:24 mhall119, let me try to explain something that happened at UDS 19:00:03 we are about to over-run 19:00:19 lets take this to the TV channel 19:00:24 agreed? 19:00:24 so I went to will and Jim and said hey I know that you all can not talk to me about things that are happening in the uture but if you see soething just email me saying "that is not a good idea " 19:00:28 bobweaver: we can talk in #ubuntu-tv so as not to take up this channel 19:00:30 agreeded 19:00:35 #endmeeting