18:05:06 <CrestedNewt> #startmeeting
18:05:06 <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Feb  1 18:05:06 2013 UTC.  The chair is CrestedNewt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
18:05:06 <meetingology> 
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18:05:13 <mhall119> CrestedNewt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology has all the commands
18:05:26 <mhall119> bobweaver: tgm4883: do you guys have specific topics?
18:05:35 <tgm4883> nope
18:05:37 <CrestedNewt> mhall119 - will check that in a inute
18:05:49 <bobweaver> nothing to crazy
18:05:54 <rewarp> I have a question about writing style guidelines. Non-programmer here.
18:06:05 <bobweaver> mhall119,  ^^
18:06:21 <CrestedNewt> OK, before we go there rewarp, lets just cover where we are
18:06:27 <mhall119> ok, let's quickly give an update on the mythtv and front-end work, then we'll get to questions
18:06:32 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver - what has been happening?
18:06:40 <bobweaver> It is 100% pluged in
18:06:49 <bobweaver> I just finshed guide
18:06:56 <mhall119> CrestedNewt: #topic Front-end updates
18:07:10 <CrestedNewt> #topic Front-end updates
18:07:18 <CrestedNewt> thx :D
18:07:19 <bobweaver> that holds real data that one can use and preview what is in each thing
18:07:20 <mhall119> np
18:07:32 <bobweaver> if it is recording or also set up recording
18:07:37 <mhall119> bobweaver: I had a question about the front-end you've been working on
18:07:38 <bobweaver> this is just temp
18:07:50 <mhall119> you have settings for different layouts, icon-view, listview, coverflow
18:07:59 <mhall119> shouldn't those be declared by the Category in the Lens?
18:08:16 <bobweaver> as I want to have all of the different things for tgm4883  scope for future
18:08:43 <bobweaver> in the future all things myth will be controled by tgm4883  scope unless we need dire things
18:08:51 <bobweaver> if that is ok with tgm
18:08:56 * tgm4883 nods
18:09:12 <bobweaver> for knnow it querys the backend and reads the xml and renders to screen
18:09:22 <bobweaver> it is like what mhall119  is talking about
18:09:25 <mhall119> bobweaver: do you have a screenshot of the guide?
18:09:31 <bobweaver> No
18:09:34 <mhall119> ok
18:09:41 <bobweaver> will not go public till 3 things on G+ go
18:09:45 <bobweaver> that is one of them
18:10:00 <mhall119> bobweaver: we got a design spec a while back, do you remember if it govers how the guide should look?
18:10:01 <bobweaver> but pm me mhall119  and I will pass you example code
18:10:08 <mhall119> ok
18:10:10 <bobweaver> yeah
18:10:19 <bobweaver> you question about frontend
18:10:22 <bobweaver> mhall119,  ^^
18:10:38 <bobweaver> Yes the lens can do that already
18:10:44 <bobweaver> but the user can also do this
18:11:03 <mhall119> ok, so it's a user override?
18:11:07 <bobweaver> Like the user can set up in his lens that he is using Channel render
18:11:16 <bobweaver> it is now living on dbus
18:11:23 <bobweaver> in unity
18:11:28 <bobweaver> well
18:11:30 <bobweaver> unity2d
18:11:38 <mhall119> ok
18:11:56 <mhall119> any other front-end updates
18:11:56 <mhall119> ?
18:11:58 <bobweaver> I can not remeber what I called the glib
18:12:03 <mhall119> I've seen you posting a lot of videos
18:12:18 <bobweaver> yeah I have made david calle lens for
18:12:33 <bobweaver> news and also for torrents stock and only call them when needed
18:12:39 <bobweaver> this has cut down ram 1/2
18:12:58 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver, so when you say that the user can change the lens, is that to remove channels that aren't wanted?
18:13:04 <bobweaver> so lens are not listening all the time unless it i needed but that is all going to change in about 3 or 5 weeks
18:13:05 <mhall119> bobweaver: you might be interested in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartScopes1304Spec as well
18:13:22 <bobweaver> mhall119,  yeah I looked at that
18:13:27 <mhall119> which is going to keep scope processes from running all the time
18:13:57 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt,  the "catagory let me take screenshot "
18:14:09 <CrestedNewt> ok
18:14:10 <mhall119> the good news is that the Dash "Home" will now be an actual scope, not hard-coded into the Dash
18:15:06 <bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/245076
18:15:24 <bobweaver> I have also cleaned up the code massivly
18:15:36 <bobweaver> and made a who;e new framework for qt5
18:15:42 <bobweaver> whole *
18:15:52 <bobweaver> any more things on front end for me ?
18:15:55 <mhall119> a framework for what?
18:16:01 <bobweaver> Phone
18:16:12 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver - superb looking!
18:16:14 <mhall119> I don't follow
18:16:17 <bobweaver> like removing all the c++ stuff for backend
18:16:38 <bobweaver> for a explaintion of that size we are going to have to do G+
18:16:45 <bobweaver> sorry google hangout
18:16:48 <bobweaver> next time
18:16:51 <mhall119> ok, another time
18:17:06 <CrestedNewt> ok - so we need to sort out a G hangout at some stage
18:17:11 <mhall119> shall we move on to MyTV updates?
18:17:12 <bobweaver> mhall119,  feel free to ping me after thi and we can do a hangout if you like
18:17:22 <mhall119> bobweaver: ok
18:17:23 <bobweaver> sounds good
18:17:43 <CrestedNewt> #topic MyTV updates
18:18:00 <CrestedNewt> OK where are we?
18:18:17 <mhall119> tgm4883: I saw you posted a video of it in action, thanks for that
18:18:37 <bobweaver> tgm4883,  and I have been talking about his awesome scope
18:19:00 <tgm4883> it's being packaged
18:19:01 <bobweaver> I am pacakging his old on <12.04
18:19:23 <tgm4883> I'm running into issues today with it not starting for some reason
18:19:26 <bobweaver> the one that I use on my TV
18:19:27 <mhall119> tgm4883: I saw that your Dee bug is being worked on
18:20:03 <tgm4883> yep
18:20:06 <mhall119> hopefully that will be in 12.04's backports soon
18:21:00 <bobweaver> anything else ?
18:21:34 <mhall119> bobweaver: once that's packaged, are you going to put it in the PPA with the packages you made for the ubuntu-fr team?
18:21:45 <bobweaver> nope u2t
18:21:54 <bobweaver> which is when that goes stable
18:21:57 <mhall119> are there unity2d TV packages in there?
18:22:10 <bobweaver> yeah it is all one big metapackae
18:22:15 <bobweaver> package
18:22:25 <mhall119> and what versions of Ubuntu does it support?
18:22:30 <bobweaver> 12.04
18:22:38 <mhall119> ok
18:22:43 <CrestedNewt> superb - LTS is good
18:22:51 <bobweaver> And I am not moving from that at all
18:22:58 <mhall119> why not?
18:22:59 <bobweaver> but if someone else wants to....
18:23:11 <bobweaver> because I am going to use Phone
18:23:24 <bobweaver> and because I love qml
18:23:26 <mhall119> for >12.04?
18:23:35 <bobweaver> we will see mhall119
18:23:45 <bobweaver> that all depends on future
18:24:01 <mhall119> is there anything technical that would stop us from making those packages available on 12.10 or 13.04?
18:24:05 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver, so you are going to use the Phone OS for TV?
18:24:30 <mhall119> CrestedNewt: the shell parts of the Phone are in QML
18:24:33 <bobweaver> for now because there is no unity 2d on >12.04 I am not going to move it up because I can not do all the cool things that I can do in qml qith Nux this is because this is just me
18:24:56 <tgm4883> I still need someone to explain to me why previews from 12.10 don't work in Ubuntu TV
18:24:57 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, I will be using what Is in front of me but yes it will run on the phone
18:25:02 <CrestedNewt> mhall119 - thx for that
18:25:13 <bobweaver> sure tgm4883
18:25:31 <mhall119> tgm4883: because the Previews API was never implemented in Unity 2d
18:25:48 <bobweaver> the way that I have coded the previews for unity 2d it just reads from the lens
18:25:59 <bobweaver> there is no catagorys to add to them
18:26:03 <bobweaver> though I could make them
18:26:19 <bobweaver> but that is a waste of my time as 1) I have something that is awesome
18:26:23 <mhall119> bobweaver: you've implemented the Previews API?
18:26:40 <bobweaver> 2)  I want to make Phone and it togeather
18:26:44 <bobweaver> mhall119,  yes
18:26:47 <mhall119> ok
18:26:51 <bobweaver> there are now previews in Ubuntu TV
18:26:57 <mhall119> cool
18:27:00 <bobweaver> for almost everything
18:27:05 <mhall119> for any scope that provides it?
18:27:19 <bobweaver> yeah just reads things like uri
18:27:27 <bobweaver> cat mimeType
18:27:30 <bobweaver> ect
18:27:45 <bobweaver> anything that one is passing to unity in lens/scope
18:28:03 <mhall119> bobweaver: in 12.10 there was a new API introduced to provide more data for Previews
18:28:06 <mhall119> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/python/Unity-6.0.html#Unity.Preview
18:28:09 <mhall119> that's what I was asking about
18:28:16 <bobweaver> not that far yet
18:28:20 <mhall119> ok
18:28:40 <bobweaver> I do not want to hack that deep ^^ which should also anwser tgm4883  question
18:28:51 <bobweaver> until we get phone
18:28:59 <mhall119> ok
18:29:04 <bobweaver> then what ever that is using to talk to Unity I will be using that
18:29:13 <mhall119> makes sense
18:29:16 <bobweaver> which I am sure all that is going to be AWESOME !
18:29:32 <mhall119> well we're half way through our hour, should we move on to Q&A?
18:29:40 <CrestedNewt> OK
18:29:48 <bobweaver> good call
18:29:50 <CrestedNewt> #topic Q&A
18:30:02 <mhall119> rewarp: you had a question?
18:30:08 <rewarp> Yes.
18:30:24 <rewarp> I did some corrections for the spellingcheck branch.
18:30:42 <rewarp> And I was wondering whether there were any official writing guidelines I could base my edits on.
18:31:07 <rewarp> I edited the document based upon my academic training, so it may not be suitable for a UI.
18:31:29 <mhall119> not that I know of
18:31:35 <bobweaver> which is awesome btw rewarp  and I approved your branch for merged
18:32:00 <rewarp> Thanks. I did some Googling and found this guideline on lp: https://dev.launchpad.net/UserInterfaceWording
18:32:23 <rewarp> And Canonical's styleguide: https://dev.launchpad.net/UserInterfaceWording/CanonicalStyleGuide
18:32:27 <tgm4883> omg, i don't want your stupid landline service comcast, leave me alone!
18:32:31 <mhall119> I didn't even know we had that
18:32:38 <mhall119> tgm4883: ?
18:32:40 <bobweaver> lol
18:32:52 <bobweaver> tellie
18:32:55 <CrestedNewt> lol is right :D
18:32:59 <tgm4883> people calling me
18:33:00 <tgm4883> bah
18:33:11 <CrestedNewt> ok - lets get back on track
18:33:19 <bobweaver> good call ^^
18:33:23 <tgm4883> it's like, I know more about your service than you do. leave me alone
18:33:28 <tgm4883> ok
18:33:37 <mhall119> so, bobweaver, do you have any guidelines or anything you think should be followed for the UI text?
18:33:43 <mhall119> or just anything that looks and sounds good
18:34:02 <bobweaver> Well I am the worse person to do spell chacking
18:34:19 <rewarp> There is this line in the lp guidelines: Buttons should be Headline Case; the last word capitalized, and all other words capitalized except those three letters or fewer that are prepositions, articles, or conjunctions.
18:34:25 <bobweaver> I told him about what the things like \t and \n do and He understood it real well
18:34:45 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver, do I understand that rewarp is helping take some of the strain away from you?
18:34:57 <mhall119> rewarp: it seems you're move of an expert on this than the rest of us, so I think we'll follow your lead here
18:35:01 <bobweaver> correct and he is doing a great job
18:35:05 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt,  ^^
18:35:15 <CrestedNewt> GJ rewarp!
18:35:16 <mhall119> thanks for your contributions rewarp, they are very much appreciated
18:35:25 <rewarp> Thanks. And you are welcome.
18:35:31 <bobweaver> rewarp,  how about this
18:35:37 <rewarp> I have always wanted to contribute something back to the project.
18:35:37 <bobweaver> you set the rules for now
18:35:49 <CrestedNewt> Are there any other area's that you can help bobweaver with?
18:35:56 <bobweaver> and if we get yelled at we will change
18:36:41 <rewarp> I am not sure. Not much programming experience.
18:36:56 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt,  I put a thing up on g+ looking for help and there are now 2 people
18:37:04 <mhall119> \o/
18:37:13 <bobweaver> which is also right you all should join the temp team that I made for this
18:37:14 <CrestedNewt> YIPEE!!
18:37:37 <bobweaver> rewarp,  apply to join lp~u2t
18:37:55 <CrestedNewt> superb bobweaver - do you have a framework setup for who is doing what?
18:37:56 <rewarp> Okay bobweaver.
18:38:12 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt,  not yet I have some blue prints and also bugs
18:38:31 <bobweaver> that is what I am hoping will happen more but I am not good at stuff like that
18:38:35 <CrestedNewt> OK but there is a starting point - will PM you later
18:38:53 <bobweaver> would be cool if we could find a different person that can tell people what to do
18:39:05 <bobweaver> "when you dont ask you dont expect "
18:39:09 <bobweaver> :P
18:39:11 <mhall119> a project manager of sorts?
18:39:17 <bobweaver> correct
18:39:22 <CrestedNewt> Well if I knew more I would be happy to oblige
18:39:23 <tgm4883> I'll tell people what to do
18:39:24 <bobweaver> we should add that to do
18:39:50 <bobweaver> ok
18:39:53 <bobweaver> I have a idea
18:40:08 <mhall119> CrestedNewt: can you #topic General Discussion
18:40:20 <CrestedNewt> #topic General Discussion
18:40:23 <mhall119> thanks
18:40:27 <bobweaver> we have 20 min left after this we can do google hangout and I will tell you all what I need or am doing if you like
18:40:47 <mhall119> bobweaver: I won't be available for a hangout right away
18:40:58 <CrestedNewt> would love to but for me it will be short as it is dinner time here
18:40:59 <mhall119> or maybe not at all today....depending on my other work
18:41:18 <mhall119> bobweaver: tgm4883: Can you guys go through the work items on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-tv-development and update them?
18:41:29 <mhall119> bobweaver: I know most of yours are blocked until the phone shell is released
18:41:36 <bobweaver> mhall119,  I would like to keep all the stuff on u2t
18:41:46 <bobweaver> let me get thouse links
18:41:53 <bobweaver> untill phone that is &^^&
18:42:24 <bobweaver> Daily PPA for U2t (ubuntu tv proto)   https://launchpad.net/~u2t/+archive/bleedingedge
18:42:40 <bobweaver> Team :  https://launchpad.net/~u2t
18:42:40 <mhall119> bobweaver: that blueprint is being tracked as part of Raring's progress though, so we need to keep it up to date as well
18:43:12 <bobweaver> Project page   https://launchpad.net/u2t
18:43:19 <bobweaver> good point mhall119
18:43:34 <bobweaver> Bugs:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/u2t
18:43:48 <bobweaver> blue Prints : https://bugs.launchpad.net/u2t
18:43:57 <CrestedNewt> OK, for TV to be taken seriously, as much as I hate saying this, the progress and documentation must be kept up to date
18:44:05 <bobweaver> mhall119,  can we medge things and what not like say that this effects this also ?
18:44:12 <CrestedNewt> I hate documentation like any IT person
18:44:18 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt,  you are right about that
18:44:20 <mhall119> bobweaver: in blueprints?
18:44:24 <tgm4883> I disagree
18:44:24 <bobweaver> mhall119,  yeah
18:44:39 <mhall119> bobweaver: I don't know, it can do some dependency stuff, but I'm not real familiar with it
18:44:41 <tgm4883> for TV to be taken seriously, we need to actually have something someone can use
18:44:55 <CrestedNewt> that is also very true
18:45:20 <bobweaver> how many of you have tried the daily in VM ?
18:45:34 <CrestedNewt> I haven't
18:45:46 <mhall119> not me, do you have a written guide for getting it setup that way?
18:45:53 <bobweaver> I think that you should before you say that we have nothing that works
18:45:53 <tgm4883> mhall119, where should I be defining this stuff
18:46:13 <tgm4883> bobweaver, I'm pretty confident I didn't say that
18:46:33 <bobweaver> sorry tgm4883  s|you|we
18:46:58 <mhall119> tgm4883: defining which, a guide to getting it running in a VM?
18:47:07 <tgm4883> mhall119, no, my blueprint stuff
18:47:14 <tgm4883> Define what data needs to be passed between Scopes and Renderers
18:47:23 <tgm4883> Define what lenses and scopes will be used
18:47:38 <mhall119> tgm4883: at the bottom of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-tv-development there is a "Work Items" section
18:47:51 <tgm4883> mhall119, yes, I know
18:47:51 <bobweaver> I think the hardest part is going to be getting people to set up there myth
18:47:54 <tgm4883> what I mean is
18:47:57 <mhall119> just change the bit at the end to "DONE, BLOCKED or INPROGRESS"
18:48:12 <tgm4883> where should I define what data needs to be passed between scopes and renderers?
18:48:15 <tgm4883> a wiki page?
18:48:19 <tgm4883> in an email to bobweaver
18:48:23 <tgm4883> etc?
18:48:23 <mhall119> oh, that
18:48:33 <mhall119> tgm4883: yeah, a wiki page would be good
18:49:01 <mhall119> tgm4883: you can make a sub-page on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV
18:49:33 <bobweaver> something that we should think about docs for what kinda capture cards are cheap and also work with kernel OFB and
18:49:48 <bobweaver> Like a recomended stuff like that
18:49:48 <tgm4883> OFB?
18:49:58 <bobweaver> out of box
18:50:01 <tgm4883> OOB
18:50:13 <CrestedNewt> minimum spec requirements should do, or not?
18:50:16 <mhall119> can people test capture cards running this from a VM?
18:50:25 <mhall119> or would it have to be installed natively
18:50:25 <tgm4883> mhall119, some
18:50:44 <tgm4883> mhall119, depends on the VM software
18:50:47 <mhall119> maybe we can make a table on the wiki where people can fill in their experience with different cards
18:51:03 <CrestedNewt> thats a superb idea !
18:51:03 <tgm4883> mhall119, there are only 2 types of cards that we should worry about
18:51:25 <tgm4883> DVB, and HDHomerun
18:51:51 <tgm4883> inside of DVB, good luck making recommendations that work around the world
18:52:09 <tgm4883> I say we pick a few recommended cards in a few major markets and stick with that
18:52:18 <bobweaver> tgm4883,  me or you can make video about installing or should we target usb ones .
18:52:21 <tgm4883> or just point people at the mythtv wiki and/or linux tv wiki
18:52:27 <bobweaver> pci or usb
18:52:35 <tgm4883> ethernet?
18:52:40 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - there may be others as well.... There are so many different formats out there that need to be tested in each region/country
18:52:50 <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, no, DVB or HDHomerun
18:53:06 <tgm4883> DVB has subtypes (eg. DVB-C, DVB-S, DVB-T)
18:53:18 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - ok
18:53:18 <tgm4883> but the two major types of cards are DVB and HDHomerun
18:53:24 <tgm4883> I have stats to back that up
18:53:35 <bobweaver> tgm4883,  can you talk more about that ^^
18:53:42 <bobweaver> like hdhomerun
18:53:43 <tgm4883> more about what part?
18:53:43 <mhall119> I'm +1 for referring to upstream wikis if they already have that info and it's accurate for UbuntuTV
18:54:04 <tgm4883> mhall119, nothing is accurate for Ubuntu TV, it needs to be accurate to Ubuntu + MythTV
18:54:15 <bobweaver> I can google after this but I know you know a bunch of good stuff
18:54:25 <tgm4883> yes I do :)
18:54:31 <bobweaver> :/
18:54:33 <tgm4883> we're running out of time here though
18:54:45 <bobweaver> like why thous 2
18:55:00 <tgm4883> bobweaver, those two types cover ~85% of the market
18:55:03 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - lol - we have 5 mins so lets wrap this up or move to #ubuntu-tv and finnish there
18:55:06 <mhall119> ok, so tgm4883 are you going ot start a new wiki page for hardware compatibility?
18:55:21 <mhall119> and also one for the guide data model?
18:55:31 <bobweaver> tgm4883,  that is the perfect reason !!
18:55:37 <tgm4883> mhall119, I did, it's at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Hardware
18:55:38 <bobweaver> thanks n
18:56:09 <mhall119> tgm4883: ok
18:56:30 <tgm4883> mhall119, I mean, it might be better for us to have a custom google search of the mythtv wiki on one of our pages
18:56:54 <tgm4883> but yea, the world is big so people are just going to have to look if they don't live in a major market
18:57:18 <CrestedNewt> OK, so we are decided on just these 2 types of card. We need to wrap this up now in reality
18:57:29 <tgm4883> I can make recommendations on USA and Canada, and maybe the UK
18:57:56 <tgm4883> but outside of those countries, it's "find a card for whatever standard you have and see if it is supported"
18:58:42 <bobweaver> tgm4883,  maybe we can do a hangout and we can explain all this
18:58:43 <mhall119> alright, anything else we need to discuss before ending the meeting?
18:58:51 <tgm4883> really, we should just pick a card for each type HDHomerun, HDHomerun-CC, DVB-S, DVB-SII, DVB-T, DVB-T
18:58:57 <CrestedNewt> OK ladies and gents, lets end this meeting here and move to more details in the tv channel
18:59:04 <tgm4883> ok
18:59:04 <bobweaver> later in the week that is tgm4883
18:59:13 <bobweaver> cool
18:59:13 <rewarp> Ok. Thanks everyone.
18:59:15 <mhall119> CrestedNewt: thanks for chairing it
18:59:16 <CrestedNewt> been productive guys
18:59:27 <tgm4883> mhall119, I'm going to bug you about some scope stuff probably
18:59:29 <CrestedNewt> mhall119 no probslems
18:59:32 <tgm4883> after I look into this a bit more
18:59:41 <CrestedNewt> #endmeeting