18:05:06 <CrestedNewt> #startmeeting 18:05:06 <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Feb 1 18:05:06 2013 UTC. The chair is CrestedNewt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 18:05:06 <meetingology> 18:05:06 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 18:05:13 <mhall119> CrestedNewt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology has all the commands 18:05:26 <mhall119> bobweaver: tgm4883: do you guys have specific topics? 18:05:35 <tgm4883> nope 18:05:37 <CrestedNewt> mhall119 - will check that in a inute 18:05:49 <bobweaver> nothing to crazy 18:05:54 <rewarp> I have a question about writing style guidelines. Non-programmer here. 18:06:05 <bobweaver> mhall119, ^^ 18:06:21 <CrestedNewt> OK, before we go there rewarp, lets just cover where we are 18:06:27 <mhall119> ok, let's quickly give an update on the mythtv and front-end work, then we'll get to questions 18:06:32 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver - what has been happening? 18:06:40 <bobweaver> It is 100% pluged in 18:06:49 <bobweaver> I just finshed guide 18:06:56 <mhall119> CrestedNewt: #topic Front-end updates 18:07:10 <CrestedNewt> #topic Front-end updates 18:07:18 <CrestedNewt> thx :D 18:07:19 <bobweaver> that holds real data that one can use and preview what is in each thing 18:07:20 <mhall119> np 18:07:32 <bobweaver> if it is recording or also set up recording 18:07:37 <mhall119> bobweaver: I had a question about the front-end you've been working on 18:07:38 <bobweaver> this is just temp 18:07:50 <mhall119> you have settings for different layouts, icon-view, listview, coverflow 18:07:59 <mhall119> shouldn't those be declared by the Category in the Lens? 18:08:16 <bobweaver> as I want to have all of the different things for tgm4883 scope for future 18:08:43 <bobweaver> in the future all things myth will be controled by tgm4883 scope unless we need dire things 18:08:51 <bobweaver> if that is ok with tgm 18:08:56 * tgm4883 nods 18:09:12 <bobweaver> for knnow it querys the backend and reads the xml and renders to screen 18:09:22 <bobweaver> it is like what mhall119 is talking about 18:09:25 <mhall119> bobweaver: do you have a screenshot of the guide? 18:09:31 <bobweaver> No 18:09:34 <mhall119> ok 18:09:41 <bobweaver> will not go public till 3 things on G+ go 18:09:45 <bobweaver> that is one of them 18:10:00 <mhall119> bobweaver: we got a design spec a while back, do you remember if it govers how the guide should look? 18:10:01 <bobweaver> but pm me mhall119 and I will pass you example code 18:10:08 <mhall119> ok 18:10:10 <bobweaver> yeah 18:10:19 <bobweaver> you question about frontend 18:10:22 <bobweaver> mhall119, ^^ 18:10:38 <bobweaver> Yes the lens can do that already 18:10:44 <bobweaver> but the user can also do this 18:11:03 <mhall119> ok, so it's a user override? 18:11:07 <bobweaver> Like the user can set up in his lens that he is using Channel render 18:11:16 <bobweaver> it is now living on dbus 18:11:23 <bobweaver> in unity 18:11:28 <bobweaver> well 18:11:30 <bobweaver> unity2d 18:11:38 <mhall119> ok 18:11:56 <mhall119> any other front-end updates 18:11:56 <mhall119> ? 18:11:58 <bobweaver> I can not remeber what I called the glib 18:12:03 <mhall119> I've seen you posting a lot of videos 18:12:18 <bobweaver> yeah I have made david calle lens for 18:12:33 <bobweaver> news and also for torrents stock and only call them when needed 18:12:39 <bobweaver> this has cut down ram 1/2 18:12:58 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver, so when you say that the user can change the lens, is that to remove channels that aren't wanted? 18:13:04 <bobweaver> so lens are not listening all the time unless it i needed but that is all going to change in about 3 or 5 weeks 18:13:05 <mhall119> bobweaver: you might be interested in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartScopes1304Spec as well 18:13:22 <bobweaver> mhall119, yeah I looked at that 18:13:27 <mhall119> which is going to keep scope processes from running all the time 18:13:57 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, the "catagory let me take screenshot " 18:14:09 <CrestedNewt> ok 18:14:10 <mhall119> the good news is that the Dash "Home" will now be an actual scope, not hard-coded into the Dash 18:15:06 <bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/245076 18:15:24 <bobweaver> I have also cleaned up the code massivly 18:15:36 <bobweaver> and made a who;e new framework for qt5 18:15:42 <bobweaver> whole * 18:15:52 <bobweaver> any more things on front end for me ? 18:15:55 <mhall119> a framework for what? 18:16:01 <bobweaver> Phone 18:16:12 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver - superb looking! 18:16:14 <mhall119> I don't follow 18:16:17 <bobweaver> like removing all the c++ stuff for backend 18:16:38 <bobweaver> for a explaintion of that size we are going to have to do G+ 18:16:45 <bobweaver> sorry google hangout 18:16:48 <bobweaver> next time 18:16:51 <mhall119> ok, another time 18:17:06 <CrestedNewt> ok - so we need to sort out a G hangout at some stage 18:17:11 <mhall119> shall we move on to MyTV updates? 18:17:12 <bobweaver> mhall119, feel free to ping me after thi and we can do a hangout if you like 18:17:22 <mhall119> bobweaver: ok 18:17:23 <bobweaver> sounds good 18:17:43 <CrestedNewt> #topic MyTV updates 18:18:00 <CrestedNewt> OK where are we? 18:18:17 <mhall119> tgm4883: I saw you posted a video of it in action, thanks for that 18:18:37 <bobweaver> tgm4883, and I have been talking about his awesome scope 18:19:00 <tgm4883> it's being packaged 18:19:01 <bobweaver> I am pacakging his old on <12.04 18:19:23 <tgm4883> I'm running into issues today with it not starting for some reason 18:19:26 <bobweaver> the one that I use on my TV 18:19:27 <mhall119> tgm4883: I saw that your Dee bug is being worked on 18:20:03 <tgm4883> yep 18:20:06 <mhall119> hopefully that will be in 12.04's backports soon 18:21:00 <bobweaver> anything else ? 18:21:34 <mhall119> bobweaver: once that's packaged, are you going to put it in the PPA with the packages you made for the ubuntu-fr team? 18:21:45 <bobweaver> nope u2t 18:21:54 <bobweaver> which is when that goes stable 18:21:57 <mhall119> are there unity2d TV packages in there? 18:22:10 <bobweaver> yeah it is all one big metapackae 18:22:15 <bobweaver> package 18:22:25 <mhall119> and what versions of Ubuntu does it support? 18:22:30 <bobweaver> 12.04 18:22:38 <mhall119> ok 18:22:43 <CrestedNewt> superb - LTS is good 18:22:51 <bobweaver> And I am not moving from that at all 18:22:58 <mhall119> why not? 18:22:59 <bobweaver> but if someone else wants to.... 18:23:11 <bobweaver> because I am going to use Phone 18:23:24 <bobweaver> and because I love qml 18:23:26 <mhall119> for >12.04? 18:23:35 <bobweaver> we will see mhall119 18:23:45 <bobweaver> that all depends on future 18:24:01 <mhall119> is there anything technical that would stop us from making those packages available on 12.10 or 13.04? 18:24:05 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver, so you are going to use the Phone OS for TV? 18:24:30 <mhall119> CrestedNewt: the shell parts of the Phone are in QML 18:24:33 <bobweaver> for now because there is no unity 2d on >12.04 I am not going to move it up because I can not do all the cool things that I can do in qml qith Nux this is because this is just me 18:24:56 <tgm4883> I still need someone to explain to me why previews from 12.10 don't work in Ubuntu TV 18:24:57 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, I will be using what Is in front of me but yes it will run on the phone 18:25:02 <CrestedNewt> mhall119 - thx for that 18:25:13 <bobweaver> sure tgm4883 18:25:31 <mhall119> tgm4883: because the Previews API was never implemented in Unity 2d 18:25:48 <bobweaver> the way that I have coded the previews for unity 2d it just reads from the lens 18:25:59 <bobweaver> there is no catagorys to add to them 18:26:03 <bobweaver> though I could make them 18:26:19 <bobweaver> but that is a waste of my time as 1) I have something that is awesome 18:26:23 <mhall119> bobweaver: you've implemented the Previews API? 18:26:40 <bobweaver> 2) I want to make Phone and it togeather 18:26:44 <bobweaver> mhall119, yes 18:26:47 <mhall119> ok 18:26:51 <bobweaver> there are now previews in Ubuntu TV 18:26:57 <mhall119> cool 18:27:00 <bobweaver> for almost everything 18:27:05 <mhall119> for any scope that provides it? 18:27:19 <bobweaver> yeah just reads things like uri 18:27:27 <bobweaver> cat mimeType 18:27:30 <bobweaver> ect 18:27:45 <bobweaver> anything that one is passing to unity in lens/scope 18:28:03 <mhall119> bobweaver: in 12.10 there was a new API introduced to provide more data for Previews 18:28:06 <mhall119> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/python/Unity-6.0.html#Unity.Preview 18:28:09 <mhall119> that's what I was asking about 18:28:16 <bobweaver> not that far yet 18:28:20 <mhall119> ok 18:28:40 <bobweaver> I do not want to hack that deep ^^ which should also anwser tgm4883 question 18:28:51 <bobweaver> until we get phone 18:28:59 <mhall119> ok 18:29:04 <bobweaver> then what ever that is using to talk to Unity I will be using that 18:29:13 <mhall119> makes sense 18:29:16 <bobweaver> which I am sure all that is going to be AWESOME ! 18:29:32 <mhall119> well we're half way through our hour, should we move on to Q&A? 18:29:40 <CrestedNewt> OK 18:29:48 <bobweaver> good call 18:29:50 <CrestedNewt> #topic Q&A 18:30:02 <mhall119> rewarp: you had a question? 18:30:08 <rewarp> Yes. 18:30:24 <rewarp> I did some corrections for the spellingcheck branch. 18:30:42 <rewarp> And I was wondering whether there were any official writing guidelines I could base my edits on. 18:31:07 <rewarp> I edited the document based upon my academic training, so it may not be suitable for a UI. 18:31:29 <mhall119> not that I know of 18:31:35 <bobweaver> which is awesome btw rewarp and I approved your branch for merged 18:32:00 <rewarp> Thanks. I did some Googling and found this guideline on lp: https://dev.launchpad.net/UserInterfaceWording 18:32:23 <rewarp> And Canonical's styleguide: https://dev.launchpad.net/UserInterfaceWording/CanonicalStyleGuide 18:32:27 <tgm4883> omg, i don't want your stupid landline service comcast, leave me alone! 18:32:31 <mhall119> I didn't even know we had that 18:32:38 <mhall119> tgm4883: ? 18:32:40 <bobweaver> lol 18:32:52 <bobweaver> tellie 18:32:55 <CrestedNewt> lol is right :D 18:32:59 <tgm4883> people calling me 18:33:00 <tgm4883> bah 18:33:11 <CrestedNewt> ok - lets get back on track 18:33:19 <bobweaver> good call ^^ 18:33:23 <tgm4883> it's like, I know more about your service than you do. leave me alone 18:33:28 <tgm4883> ok 18:33:37 <mhall119> so, bobweaver, do you have any guidelines or anything you think should be followed for the UI text? 18:33:43 <mhall119> or just anything that looks and sounds good 18:34:02 <bobweaver> Well I am the worse person to do spell chacking 18:34:19 <rewarp> There is this line in the lp guidelines: Buttons should be Headline Case; the last word capitalized, and all other words capitalized except those three letters or fewer that are prepositions, articles, or conjunctions. 18:34:25 <bobweaver> I told him about what the things like \t and \n do and He understood it real well 18:34:45 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver, do I understand that rewarp is helping take some of the strain away from you? 18:34:57 <mhall119> rewarp: it seems you're move of an expert on this than the rest of us, so I think we'll follow your lead here 18:35:01 <bobweaver> correct and he is doing a great job 18:35:05 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, ^^ 18:35:15 <CrestedNewt> GJ rewarp! 18:35:16 <mhall119> thanks for your contributions rewarp, they are very much appreciated 18:35:25 <rewarp> Thanks. And you are welcome. 18:35:31 <bobweaver> rewarp, how about this 18:35:37 <rewarp> I have always wanted to contribute something back to the project. 18:35:37 <bobweaver> you set the rules for now 18:35:49 <CrestedNewt> Are there any other area's that you can help bobweaver with? 18:35:56 <bobweaver> and if we get yelled at we will change 18:36:41 <rewarp> I am not sure. Not much programming experience. 18:36:56 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, I put a thing up on g+ looking for help and there are now 2 people 18:37:04 <mhall119> \o/ 18:37:13 <bobweaver> which is also right you all should join the temp team that I made for this 18:37:14 <CrestedNewt> YIPEE!! 18:37:37 <bobweaver> rewarp, apply to join lp~u2t 18:37:55 <CrestedNewt> superb bobweaver - do you have a framework setup for who is doing what? 18:37:56 <rewarp> Okay bobweaver. 18:38:12 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, not yet I have some blue prints and also bugs 18:38:31 <bobweaver> that is what I am hoping will happen more but I am not good at stuff like that 18:38:35 <CrestedNewt> OK but there is a starting point - will PM you later 18:38:53 <bobweaver> would be cool if we could find a different person that can tell people what to do 18:39:05 <bobweaver> "when you dont ask you dont expect " 18:39:09 <bobweaver> :P 18:39:11 <mhall119> a project manager of sorts? 18:39:17 <bobweaver> correct 18:39:22 <CrestedNewt> Well if I knew more I would be happy to oblige 18:39:23 <tgm4883> I'll tell people what to do 18:39:24 <bobweaver> we should add that to do 18:39:50 <bobweaver> ok 18:39:53 <bobweaver> I have a idea 18:40:08 <mhall119> CrestedNewt: can you #topic General Discussion 18:40:20 <CrestedNewt> #topic General Discussion 18:40:23 <mhall119> thanks 18:40:27 <bobweaver> we have 20 min left after this we can do google hangout and I will tell you all what I need or am doing if you like 18:40:47 <mhall119> bobweaver: I won't be available for a hangout right away 18:40:58 <CrestedNewt> would love to but for me it will be short as it is dinner time here 18:40:59 <mhall119> or maybe not at all today....depending on my other work 18:41:18 <mhall119> bobweaver: tgm4883: Can you guys go through the work items on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-tv-development and update them? 18:41:29 <mhall119> bobweaver: I know most of yours are blocked until the phone shell is released 18:41:36 <bobweaver> mhall119, I would like to keep all the stuff on u2t 18:41:46 <bobweaver> let me get thouse links 18:41:53 <bobweaver> untill phone that is &^^& 18:42:24 <bobweaver> Daily PPA for U2t (ubuntu tv proto) https://launchpad.net/~u2t/+archive/bleedingedge 18:42:40 <bobweaver> Team : https://launchpad.net/~u2t 18:42:40 <mhall119> bobweaver: that blueprint is being tracked as part of Raring's progress though, so we need to keep it up to date as well 18:43:12 <bobweaver> Project page https://launchpad.net/u2t 18:43:19 <bobweaver> good point mhall119 18:43:34 <bobweaver> Bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/u2t 18:43:48 <bobweaver> blue Prints : https://bugs.launchpad.net/u2t 18:43:57 <CrestedNewt> OK, for TV to be taken seriously, as much as I hate saying this, the progress and documentation must be kept up to date 18:44:05 <bobweaver> mhall119, can we medge things and what not like say that this effects this also ? 18:44:12 <CrestedNewt> I hate documentation like any IT person 18:44:18 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, you are right about that 18:44:20 <mhall119> bobweaver: in blueprints? 18:44:24 <tgm4883> I disagree 18:44:24 <bobweaver> mhall119, yeah 18:44:39 <mhall119> bobweaver: I don't know, it can do some dependency stuff, but I'm not real familiar with it 18:44:41 <tgm4883> for TV to be taken seriously, we need to actually have something someone can use 18:44:55 <CrestedNewt> that is also very true 18:45:20 <bobweaver> how many of you have tried the daily in VM ? 18:45:34 <CrestedNewt> I haven't 18:45:46 <mhall119> not me, do you have a written guide for getting it setup that way? 18:45:53 <bobweaver> I think that you should before you say that we have nothing that works 18:45:53 <tgm4883> mhall119, where should I be defining this stuff 18:46:13 <tgm4883> bobweaver, I'm pretty confident I didn't say that 18:46:33 <bobweaver> sorry tgm4883 s|you|we 18:46:58 <mhall119> tgm4883: defining which, a guide to getting it running in a VM? 18:47:07 <tgm4883> mhall119, no, my blueprint stuff 18:47:14 <tgm4883> Define what data needs to be passed between Scopes and Renderers 18:47:23 <tgm4883> Define what lenses and scopes will be used 18:47:38 <mhall119> tgm4883: at the bottom of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-tv-development there is a "Work Items" section 18:47:51 <tgm4883> mhall119, yes, I know 18:47:51 <bobweaver> I think the hardest part is going to be getting people to set up there myth 18:47:54 <tgm4883> what I mean is 18:47:57 <mhall119> just change the bit at the end to "DONE, BLOCKED or INPROGRESS" 18:48:12 <tgm4883> where should I define what data needs to be passed between scopes and renderers? 18:48:15 <tgm4883> a wiki page? 18:48:19 <tgm4883> in an email to bobweaver 18:48:23 <tgm4883> etc? 18:48:23 <mhall119> oh, that 18:48:33 <mhall119> tgm4883: yeah, a wiki page would be good 18:49:01 <mhall119> tgm4883: you can make a sub-page on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV 18:49:33 <bobweaver> something that we should think about docs for what kinda capture cards are cheap and also work with kernel OFB and 18:49:48 <bobweaver> Like a recomended stuff like that 18:49:48 <tgm4883> OFB? 18:49:58 <bobweaver> out of box 18:50:01 <tgm4883> OOB 18:50:13 <CrestedNewt> minimum spec requirements should do, or not? 18:50:16 <mhall119> can people test capture cards running this from a VM? 18:50:25 <mhall119> or would it have to be installed natively 18:50:25 <tgm4883> mhall119, some 18:50:44 <tgm4883> mhall119, depends on the VM software 18:50:47 <mhall119> maybe we can make a table on the wiki where people can fill in their experience with different cards 18:51:03 <CrestedNewt> thats a superb idea ! 18:51:03 <tgm4883> mhall119, there are only 2 types of cards that we should worry about 18:51:25 <tgm4883> DVB, and HDHomerun 18:51:51 <tgm4883> inside of DVB, good luck making recommendations that work around the world 18:52:09 <tgm4883> I say we pick a few recommended cards in a few major markets and stick with that 18:52:18 <bobweaver> tgm4883, me or you can make video about installing or should we target usb ones . 18:52:21 <tgm4883> or just point people at the mythtv wiki and/or linux tv wiki 18:52:27 <bobweaver> pci or usb 18:52:35 <tgm4883> ethernet? 18:52:40 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - there may be others as well.... There are so many different formats out there that need to be tested in each region/country 18:52:50 <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, no, DVB or HDHomerun 18:53:06 <tgm4883> DVB has subtypes (eg. DVB-C, DVB-S, DVB-T) 18:53:18 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - ok 18:53:18 <tgm4883> but the two major types of cards are DVB and HDHomerun 18:53:24 <tgm4883> I have stats to back that up 18:53:35 <bobweaver> tgm4883, can you talk more about that ^^ 18:53:42 <bobweaver> like hdhomerun 18:53:43 <tgm4883> more about what part? 18:53:43 <mhall119> I'm +1 for referring to upstream wikis if they already have that info and it's accurate for UbuntuTV 18:54:04 <tgm4883> mhall119, nothing is accurate for Ubuntu TV, it needs to be accurate to Ubuntu + MythTV 18:54:15 <bobweaver> I can google after this but I know you know a bunch of good stuff 18:54:25 <tgm4883> yes I do :) 18:54:31 <bobweaver> :/ 18:54:33 <tgm4883> we're running out of time here though 18:54:45 <bobweaver> like why thous 2 18:55:00 <tgm4883> bobweaver, those two types cover ~85% of the market 18:55:03 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - lol - we have 5 mins so lets wrap this up or move to #ubuntu-tv and finnish there 18:55:06 <mhall119> ok, so tgm4883 are you going ot start a new wiki page for hardware compatibility? 18:55:21 <mhall119> and also one for the guide data model? 18:55:31 <bobweaver> tgm4883, that is the perfect reason !! 18:55:37 <tgm4883> mhall119, I did, it's at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Hardware 18:55:38 <bobweaver> thanks n 18:56:09 <mhall119> tgm4883: ok 18:56:30 <tgm4883> mhall119, I mean, it might be better for us to have a custom google search of the mythtv wiki on one of our pages 18:56:54 <tgm4883> but yea, the world is big so people are just going to have to look if they don't live in a major market 18:57:18 <CrestedNewt> OK, so we are decided on just these 2 types of card. We need to wrap this up now in reality 18:57:29 <tgm4883> I can make recommendations on USA and Canada, and maybe the UK 18:57:56 <tgm4883> but outside of those countries, it's "find a card for whatever standard you have and see if it is supported" 18:58:42 <bobweaver> tgm4883, maybe we can do a hangout and we can explain all this 18:58:43 <mhall119> alright, anything else we need to discuss before ending the meeting? 18:58:51 <tgm4883> really, we should just pick a card for each type HDHomerun, HDHomerun-CC, DVB-S, DVB-SII, DVB-T, DVB-T 18:58:57 <CrestedNewt> OK ladies and gents, lets end this meeting here and move to more details in the tv channel 18:59:04 <tgm4883> ok 18:59:04 <bobweaver> later in the week that is tgm4883 18:59:13 <bobweaver> cool 18:59:13 <rewarp> Ok. Thanks everyone. 18:59:15 <mhall119> CrestedNewt: thanks for chairing it 18:59:16 <CrestedNewt> been productive guys 18:59:27 <tgm4883> mhall119, I'm going to bug you about some scope stuff probably 18:59:29 <CrestedNewt> mhall119 no probslems 18:59:32 <tgm4883> after I look into this a bit more 18:59:41 <CrestedNewt> #endmeeting