15:03:55 <slangasek> #startmeeting
15:03:55 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 22 15:03:55 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
15:03:55 <meetingology> 
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15:04:22 <slangasek> #topic lightning round
15:04:31 <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
15:04:34 <slangasek> infinity doko stgraber bdmurray slangasek stokachu ogra cjwatson barry jodh ev xnox
15:04:39 * xnox win!
15:04:47 * barry sets his alarm to wake up in 30m
15:04:49 <infinity> - Fresh round of kernel SRUs this week
15:04:50 <infinity> - Other AA and SRU tasks
15:04:50 <infinity> - A few FTBFS fixes
15:04:50 <infinity> - Lots of babysitting buildds during and after the DC move
15:04:50 <infinity> - Started work on livefs-in-soyuz on the lp-buildd side
15:04:52 <infinity> - Started looking at old kernel cleanup
15:04:54 <infinity> - d-i upload and tracking fallout from new xorg-server deps
15:05:09 <cjwatson> livefs-in-soyuz> yay yay yay
15:05:27 <infinity> Also, forgot to sleep last night.
15:05:30 <infinity> [...]
15:06:01 <slangasek> doko: your turn
15:06:11 <doko> - merge binutils cross patches from linaro
15:06:12 <doko> - binutils update to support aarch64 and x32
15:06:12 <doko> - gcc-snapshot update
15:06:12 <doko> - gcc-4.4, gcc-4.6 updates (should be "final")
15:06:12 <doko> - gcc bug triage
15:06:14 <doko> (done)
15:06:32 <stgraber> - 12.04.1
15:06:33 <stgraber> - 12.04.1 team meeting and minutes
15:06:33 <stgraber> - Verified a bunch of SRUs.
15:06:33 <stgraber> - Continuing release process.
15:06:33 <stgraber> - Fixed 10.04 to 12.04 upgrades using media only and regressions introduced by the fixes.
15:06:36 <stgraber> - ISO and upgrade testing
15:06:38 <stgraber> - Containers
15:06:41 <stgraber> - Rebased lxc-api-and-python branch, working on a few changes, will be pushed upstream and in Ubuntu before FF
15:06:43 <stgraber> - TODO this week
15:06:46 <stgraber> - Continue the work on 12.04.1.
15:06:49 <stgraber> - Will be traveling to Montreal on Monday (on 3G while on the bus) and to San Diego on Tuesday for Plumbers
15:06:52 <stgraber> (DONE)
15:07:13 <bdmurray> bug triage of iso testing bug reports
15:07:13 <bdmurray> bug triage of ubuntu-release-upgrader duplicates of bug 930839
15:07:13 <bdmurray> research into and data gathering of how people modify /etc/default/grub
15:07:13 <bdmurray> work on bug 1020994 error reports missing data
15:07:14 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 930839 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with SIGABRT in __assert_fail_base(): Assertion !xcb_xlib_unknown_req_in_deq failed in dequeue_pending_request" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930839
15:07:16 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1020994 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "Ensure whoopsie sends complete crash files to the error tracker" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020994
15:07:26 <bdmurray> worked on and pushed a regression potential finding bug script for the SRU team
15:07:29 <bdmurray> reviewed and merged lp:~mvo/apt-clone/show-diff into apt-clone upstream bzr branch
15:07:37 <bdmurray> (DONE)
15:09:10 <stokachu> want me to go?
15:09:38 <ogra_> no, please stay !
15:09:41 <stokachu> haha
15:09:46 <ogra_> :)
15:10:19 <stokachu> slangasek: ?
15:10:25 <slangasek> one sec :)
15:10:29 <stokachu> ok
15:11:16 <slangasek> * out sick last Thursday
15:11:16 <slangasek> * discussions around llvmpipe on ARM; helped tjaalton prep the new mesa that we can use for testing this
15:11:19 <slangasek> * 12.04.1 prep
15:11:21 <slangasek> * discussions around whoopsie remaining enabled in 12.04.1 and getting better information from errors.u.c
15:11:24 <slangasek> * moved from unity-2d to unity-3d^W unity, finding new bugs to be filed, and not finding my windows anymore
15:11:28 <slangasek> * suggestions on how to restore the metacity-like window switcher welcome
15:11:30 <slangasek> * reviews for multiarch library SRUs
15:11:33 <slangasek> (done)
15:11:42 <stokachu> bug #932860 - needs review, sponsor
15:11:44 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 932860 in appmenu-gtk (Ubuntu Precise) "Broken (or missing) multiarch support" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/932860
15:11:45 <stokachu> bug #977964 - needs review, sponsor
15:11:46 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 977964 in libart-lgpl (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libart-lgpl to multi-arch" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977964
15:11:47 <stokachu> bug #977959 - needs review, sponsor
15:11:48 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 977959 in libgnome (Ubuntu Precise) "Please transition libgnome to multi-arch" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977959
15:11:49 <stokachu> bug #1036834 - needs review, sponsor, and possible acceptance into precise nomiated series.
15:11:50 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1036834 in gdb (Ubuntu) "gdb should be marked "Multi-arch: allowed"" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1036834
15:11:51 <stokachu> bug #154086 - needs acceptance into precise series, and discussion if workaround is a viable fix for inclusion. (comment 12)
15:11:52 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 154086 in partman-auto-lvm (Ubuntu) "Installing to HDD with previous ubuntu fails to create fresh LVM claiming group already in use" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154086
15:11:53 <stokachu> (done)
15:12:10 <slangasek> stokachu: yep, 932860 is on my list... I saw that you had some trouble finding a patch pilot to take it up, sorry about that :/
15:12:45 <slangasek> 977964 was on my list as well; I hadn't seen 977959 until now, adding
15:12:50 <stokachu> slangasek: np, seems like not many people like multi-arch
15:13:05 <slangasek> heh :)
15:13:23 <ogra_> done:
15:13:23 <ogra_> * a fully virtualized bamboo-feeder using the omap3 server image (with automatic daily testing now, will publish regular results shortly)
15:13:23 <ogra_> * flash-kernel preEnv.txt support is done, pending upload later today
15:13:23 <ogra_> * various bug triages fixes etc
15:13:23 <ogra_> * helped fixing bug 1018907, thanks rsalveti for doing teh heavy lifting work in plymouth !
15:13:25 <ogra_> todo:
15:13:25 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018907 in plymouth (Ubuntu Quantal) "plymouth in quantal on arm does only boot with black screen" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1018907
15:13:27 <ogra_> * bug 1028905
15:13:28 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028905 in cdrom-detect (Ubuntu Quantal) "cdrom-detect in quantal omap4 hangs trying to look for install media on an extended partition" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028905
15:13:31 <ogra_> * PVR, nvidia-tegra, unity-2d, whatever ... desktop on arm fixing ...
15:13:33 <ogra_> * progress with the bamboo-feeders and publish daily results
15:13:35 <ogra_> * probably add an ac100 to the bamboo-feeder too
15:13:37 <ogra_> * prepare for beta
15:14:00 * xnox stokachu i will look into partman-lvm bug, after feature freeze, cause it does affect quantal & now ubiquity as well....
15:14:05 <ogra_> and on a sidenote i just got a new BT kbd ... just to notice that BT in ubuntu apparently cant drive both devices at the same time
15:14:09 <ogra_> :(
15:14:11 <ogra_> ..
15:14:19 <stokachu> xnox: ok cool, this was a request from support and i haven't honestly looked into it
15:14:27 <stokachu> seems valid though
15:15:01 <ogra_> (both devices = BT headset and kbd)
15:15:03 <slangasek> adding an ac100 to a bamboo feeder would surely be cannibalism
15:15:10 <xnox> stokachu: yes, it is very very valid =)
15:15:15 <ogra_> haha
15:15:23 <stokachu> xnox: cool thanks for putting on your radar
15:15:34 <slangasek> cjwatson: your turn
15:16:01 <slangasek> ogra_: there should be no reason that BT generally would fail to drive both devices; could be an adapter-specific problem?
15:16:12 <slangasek> (the stack certainly supports multiple simultaneous BT pairings)
15:16:46 <ogra_> slangasek, well, i have two usb adapters (one came with the kbd) either the kbd stops taking input and disconnects or the audio gets choppy and the headset disconnects
15:17:05 <cjwatson> Packaged libisoburn 1.2.4 and made some initial steps to using it in our CD builds (just amd64 for now to make EFI hybrid ISO9660/USB work; HFS+ hybrid as soon as I can make it work).
15:17:05 <ogra_> no matter which adapter i use
15:17:09 <cjwatson> Lots of merges.
15:17:12 <cjwatson> Increased apt's maximum override line length (bug 1038961).
15:17:13 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1038961 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "Maximum override line length is too short" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1038961
15:17:14 <cjwatson> Enabled biosdevname by default in d-i (bug 891258).
15:17:15 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 891258 in biosdevname (Ubuntu) "Biosdevname auto enabled on Dell HW" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891258
15:17:17 <cjwatson> Re-enabled a few lost hardening options (bug 1039554, bug 1039597).
15:17:19 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039554 in cyrus-sasl2 (Ubuntu) "Please re-enable PIE" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039554
15:17:19 <cjwatson> Giant live-build merge, requiring consequential changes to livecd-rootfs and ubuntu-defaults-builder.
15:17:20 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039597 in openbsd-inetd (Ubuntu) "Please re-enable PIE and BIND_NOW" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039597
15:17:23 <cjwatson> Removed the ubuntu-security celebrity from Launchpad, now that we have fully-working Archive.copyPackage.
15:17:26 <cjwatson> Cleaned up publisher timestamp handling (bug 1033581).
15:17:27 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1033581 in Launchpad itself "Publisher should set modification times on Releases et al" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033581
15:17:28 <cjwatson> Fixed some OOPSes when copying packages (bug 1023372, bug 1031089).
15:17:30 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1023372 in Launchpad itself "Direct-copying an already-published package OOPSes" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1023372
15:17:31 <cjwatson> Working on an efilinux-signed package.  Will be uploaded today.
15:17:31 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1031089 in Launchpad itself "PPA async copy attempting to "undelete" a package OOPSes" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031089
15:17:33 <cjwatson> Working on final bits and pieces of python3-debian patch set.  Should be uploaded today.
15:17:36 <cjwatson> Switched back from unity-2d (which I've been using for months) to unity.  All surprisingly trouble-free so far.
15:17:39 <cjwatson> On holiday from Friday 24th to Friday 31st.
15:17:42 <cjwatson> ..
15:17:49 <slangasek> ogra_: maybe it's your personal EMF interfering with the frequency, not leaving enough bandwidth for both devices? :)
15:17:51 <xnox> ogra_: I use wireless keyboard & mouse with a special dongle (not BT) works much nicer =) it's microsoft ergonomic one.
15:17:57 <ogra_> heh
15:18:03 <barry> been working exclusively on the gwibber backend dbus service port to py3.  making great progress, but it's a huge port and not quite ready for integration and release.  a significant part of the work is to actually write tests for all the code being ported (including over dbus), which has already provided huge benefit.  may not be ready for ff, but upstream is already planning an ffe so the backend work will fall under that.  working
15:18:03 <barry> now on the hairiest class in the code base.  lp:~barry/gwibber/py3.  done.
15:18:19 <ogra_> xnox, yeah, i have a logitech mouse with such a dongle
15:18:20 <slangasek> ogra_: or it could just be wifi interference too, since it's all in the same band :(
15:18:20 <jodh> * misc:
15:18:20 <jodh> - Thurday off.
15:18:20 <jodh> - Booked flights and registered for UDS-R.
15:18:20 <jodh> * boot/upstart:
15:18:23 <jodh> - Stateful re-exec:
15:18:26 <jodh> - Got Upstart to re-register on D-Bus post-exec.
15:18:29 <jodh> - Identified cause of post re-exec Upstart issues. Currently working
15:18:32 <jodh> on fix.
15:18:36 <jodh> - lots of tidy-up and minor bug fixes.
15:18:39 <jodh> Ϡ
15:19:05 <ogra_> slangasek, well, if i add the second device it reliably kills the first one (if the second can connect at all) ... no matter what order
15:19:17 <stokachu> jodh: next week i'd like to see a unicorn
15:19:20 <ev> Week of Thursday, August 16th
15:19:20 <ev> - Continued discussion about whether 12.04 should have error reporting
15:19:20 <ev> enabled.
15:19:20 <ev> - Finished the implementation of the django-openid-auth integration. As
15:19:20 <ev> mentioned previously, this will let us cache login details and will form the
15:19:20 <ev> foundation of having team-level views.
15:19:28 <ev> - Started working in the "90 day moving window" for the average problems per
15:19:28 <ev> day denominator. Had to back fill 12.10 rows of unique system IDs per day,
15:19:29 <ev> as we did before for 12.04. This was slowed down by the webops datacenter
15:19:29 <ev> move. Ready to go, but blocked from landing by the django-openid-auth work,
15:19:29 <ev> which is ahead in the queue.
15:19:29 <ev> - Made http://errors.ubuntu.com/?launchpad=false work. This will let us judge
15:19:29 <ev> whether the timeouts we're seeing on the month view and sometimes on the day
15:19:30 <ev> view are caused by talking to Launchpad.
15:19:36 <jodh> stokachu: is there not a btrfs glyph yet?
15:19:40 <ogra_> and there is not much wifi in my office (there are waves but not many devices... (one AP)
15:19:41 <ev> - Meeting with Tom.
15:19:41 <ev> - Discussed the possibility of us handling deployment without involving
15:19:41 <ev> webops. He'd like to see us get the infrastructure charmed and structured
15:19:41 <ev> so deployments are push-button events, with scripts to handle both rollout
15:19:41 <ev> and rollback.
15:19:41 <ev> - He sounds okay with adding Hadoop to our infrastructure, which will let us
15:19:42 <ev> open the data to more free-form queries. Filed an RT:
15:19:42 <ev> https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=55518
15:19:44 <stokachu> lol
15:19:52 <ev> - He's going to look into getting the same amount of disk space in the
15:19:52 <ev> staging cluster, as finding a way to sync data into a smaller cluster is
15:19:52 <ev> currently blocking this much-needed ticket.
15:19:52 <ev> - He raised the priority on getting Brian access to the database.
15:19:52 <ev> - Continued work on the "multiple problems in a single dialog branch of
15:19:52 <ev> apport:
15:19:52 <ev> https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/apport/multiple-simultaneous-errors
15:20:00 <ev> However, Martin is not convinced we have sufficient data to show this is
15:20:00 <ev> actually going to have a net-benefit when you factor in the confusion around
15:20:00 <ev> talking about multiple problems in a single treeview. Not dropping it
15:20:00 <ev> per-se, but dropping the priority to focus back on other work.
15:20:00 <ev> - Fixed a security vulnerability in daisy.ubuntu.com.
15:20:09 <ev> - Ran some numbers for Brian to determine whether the recent change to apport
15:20:09 <ev> to fix the missing Packages field was having a detrimental impact.
15:20:09 <ev> - Finally got package version numbers in the drop-down box on
15:20:09 <ev> errors.ubuntu.com. The data currently comes from Launchpad.
15:20:09 <ev> - Nearly finished implementing URL field specification for errors.ubuntu.com.
15:20:09 <ev> So soon you'll be able to do this:
15:20:09 <ev> https://errors.ubuntu.com/filter/+release/Ubuntu 12.10/+package/software-center/+version/5.3.0/+period/20120801
15:20:19 <ev> - Reviewed software-center's recoverable problem integration:
15:20:19 <ev> https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/software-center/polkit-lp785117/+merge/112292
15:20:19 <ev> We have our first consumer, yay!
15:20:19 <ev> - Finally sent the first State of the Ubuntu Error Tracker email:
15:20:19 <ev> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-August/035636.html
15:20:26 <ev> Hopefully this will bring more developers to the team and keep us all in
15:20:27 <ev> sync. Suggestions always welcome on how we can make it even easier to get
15:20:27 <ev> involved.
15:20:27 <ev> - Pointed http://wubi.sf.net to the downloads page, finally.
15:20:27 <ev> - Looked into RT 55339 for webops, which was about picking a better compaction
15:20:27 <ev> strategy for the Cassandra cluster:
15:20:27 <ev> https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=55339
15:20:32 <ogra_> dmesg
15:20:32 <ev> - More bug triage for errors and daisy.
15:20:32 <ev> - Fixed wubi for dailies in 12.04.1.
15:20:33 <ev> (done)
15:21:12 <xnox> * Merges - done:
15:21:12 <xnox> - mdadm, cryptsetup and lvm2 uploaded (thanks slangasek for reviewing lvm2)
15:21:12 <xnox> * Ubiquity - done:
15:21:12 <xnox> - removed pictograms on the ask page (regaining vertical space)
15:21:12 <xnox> - made crypto passphrase page centred and fixed
15:21:13 <xnox> - crypt option visible by default
15:21:15 <xnox> * Ubiquity - in progress:
15:21:18 <xnox> - re-factoring advanced partitioner UI to fit/add crypt, lvm and raid options
15:21:20 <xnox> - advanced partitioner encryption in progress
15:21:22 <xnox> - "missed" encryption key sizes & algorithms in the design spec, mpt is on it.
15:21:24 <xnox> ☙❦❧
15:22:20 <slangasek> jodh: you saw that json-c 0.10 has been packaged?
15:22:21 * ogra_ wonders if there isnt a way to force a bigger size for these utf toys on IRC
15:22:36 <ogra_> its really hard to recognize what they are
15:23:13 <jodh> slangasek: great news!
15:23:31 <cjwatson> jodh: shall I sync that into quantal for you?
15:23:40 <cjwatson> if nobody else has hit the button already
15:24:17 <slangasek> jodh: yep!  is there anything we need to coordinate with diwic before accepting it?
15:24:56 <jodh> slangasek: I believe he's happy if someone runs through then normal set of PA tests, but will double check...
15:25:42 <xnox> ogra_: is your desk made out of wood or metal?! made a massive difference to my wireless keyboard lagging
15:25:45 <cjwatson> well, just shout when you want it synced
15:25:52 <ogra_> wood
15:25:58 <xnox> ogra_: hmm...
15:26:19 <jodh> cjwatson: ta.
15:26:46 <slangasek> ev: so the timeouts on http://errors.ubuntu.com/?launchpad=false have been much less frequent; I've even occasionally been able to load the 12.04 month view.  Does that confirm that the timeouts are from the launchpad bits?
15:27:24 <ev> slangasek: I would have very much preferred it if you said, "the timeouts no longer exist with launchpad=false" :-/
15:27:46 <ev> slangasek: so yeah, I suspect the launchpad bits are playing a role
15:27:49 <ev> but there's more going on here
15:27:56 <cjwatson> Launchpad has had a good deal of teething trouble with the DC move, which has been worked on over the last couple of days, so I expect there's been some change due to that alone
15:27:57 * ev pines for that JMX ticket to be finished
15:28:00 <slangasek> ev: hmm, that might be the case... let me pay closer attention over the next couple of days
15:28:26 <ev> I have a todo list item to check to make sure our etag checking is working
15:28:31 <ev> it kind of feels like it isn't
15:28:45 <ev> as subsequent loads on my local environment take just as long
15:28:50 <ev> which shouldn't happen with such caching
15:29:44 * ogra_ has something else too
15:30:40 <ogra_> i'm constantly asked by seb128 during the release meeting about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-xdg-runtime-dir and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-upstart-session-requirements ...
15:30:40 <slangasek> xnox: so do encryption key sizes / algorithms really need to be part of the ubiquity UI?  As opposed to, say, a preseed?
15:31:05 <ogra_> while slangasek already gave me feedback for the xdg spec it isnt really clear if the other one will happen at all in time for beta1
15:31:53 <jodh> ogra_: highly unlikely in my view.
15:31:57 <ogra_> if it doesnt we should probably contact the desktop team about it
15:32:27 <jodh> ogra_: I thought we were waiting on them to tell us relative priorities?
15:32:29 <ogra_> jodh, yep, i thought so
15:32:31 <slangasek> ogra_: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-upstart-session-requirements> note that this blueprint was marked 'low', because that session wound up being a laundry list of everything they wanted upstart to do
15:32:51 <ogra_> slangasek, i know, i was there :)
15:33:02 <xnox> slangasek: they will work in a preseed, it was a pointer to mpt to think about / design. Didn't start implementing them in the ubiquity UI. But it is somewhat important to at least state the options for certification & compliance.
15:33:11 <ogra_> i was actually surprised to see it accepted for quantal
15:33:13 <slangasek> ogra_: so, given that they acknowledged none of this was required, it was prioritized accordingly
15:33:21 <ogra_> k
15:33:24 <slangasek> xnox: ok
15:34:00 <slangasek> ogra_: the xdg thing, by contrast, was singled out as something they do have a significant need for, and we should still land that this cycle
15:34:13 <slangasek> #topic bugs
15:35:00 <slangasek> is everyone getting their money's worth out of errors.ubuntu.com? :)
15:35:12 <ev> can I say yes?
15:35:23 <slangasek> sure!
15:35:31 <ogra_> at least some entertainment on the ubuntu-release ML :)
15:35:48 <infinity> I've paid nothing for it, and it's been worth every penny.
15:35:52 <ev> lol
15:35:55 <ogra_> heh
15:36:31 <slangasek> there was a sessioninstaller bug in quantal, regressing due to an aptdaemon behavior change, that we caught and fixed the other day
15:37:01 <slangasek> so that's good
15:37:31 <ev> there's an idea. Teach it to identify the uploaders who have the most detrimental impact on the quality of Ubuntu, then rank them in a new page with a donation form to send them on a holiday where Internet access is scarce.
15:37:52 <slangasek> oh cool, errors.u.c js just made my browser unresponsive
15:37:54 <slangasek> nuts to that
15:38:02 <ev> slangasek: get a better browser
15:38:19 <slangasek> ev: spoken like a true IE developer
15:38:57 <slangasek> bdmurray: anything you think needs more attention than it's getting?
15:39:08 <ev> slangasek: I'm one man. I can't support every platform. And it's high time you gave up Mosaic anyway.
15:39:13 <bdmurray> bug 985652 - its not clear to me if work is required by us there
15:39:14 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 985652 in Ubuntu Translations "Translations for "retrieving files" are not being used" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985652
15:39:50 <slangasek> ev: hah
15:39:55 <ev> but I have no idea what debugging tools are available to you there, but if you can isolate the problem I'm happy to fix it
15:40:15 <slangasek> ev: it's firefox, so I have no idea what debugging tools are available either :P
15:40:31 <ev> firebug probably has something, I guess?
15:40:33 <slangasek> ev: but when I view 12.04+month, it gets really slow
15:40:47 <ev> hmm
15:41:20 <ev> I'll have a look at the javascript around that view and see if anything jumps out
15:41:25 * slangasek looks at bug #985652
15:41:27 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 985652 in Ubuntu Translations "Translations for "retrieving files" are not being used" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985652
15:41:27 <slangasek> ev: cheers
15:41:39 <jodh> ev: it'd be nice if when you change a pull down, it blanks the existing data.
15:42:07 <ev> jodh: can you elaborate?
15:42:14 <ev> you mean while loading?
15:42:25 * xnox just lost irc at 16:35....
15:42:46 <jodh> ev: you get "loading..." but it keeps the existing data until either you get the new data or you get an error.
15:43:06 <jodh> ev: in fact the existing data is retained even if there is an error.
15:43:07 <ev> jodh: right. Can you file a bug against http://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+filebug please?
15:43:23 <ev> mentioning the data being retained too, as I haven't seen that yet myself
15:43:55 <slangasek> cjwatson: so you commented on 985652 before release; any idea what the problem is there?
15:43:55 <slangasek> could this be related to our locale disabling for logging?
15:43:55 <slangasek> if the string is from apt, this seems at least somewhat plausible
15:44:43 <slangasek> xnox: just talking about bugs
15:45:21 <xnox> slangasek: so you didn't see my question about three bugs?
15:45:42 <slangasek> ev, jodh: it would be nice to keep the old data there while the new load is in progress, it gives me something to look at while the browser is busy :D
15:45:45 <slangasek> xnox: no
15:46:02 <ev> slangasek: hmm, good point
15:46:02 <jodh> slangasek/ev: bug 1040140.
15:46:03 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1040140 in Errors "error tracker should remove/grey out existing data when user changes display options" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040140
15:47:13 <cjwatson> slangasek: I don't think I actually ever managed to trace that.  The locale disabling is meant to be arranged such that it's just for dpkg
15:47:25 <slangasek> cjwatson: ah, ok
15:47:30 <xnox> no plymouth LUKS prompt after full-disk encryption install. Couple of similar
15:47:30 <xnox> bugs, here is one from myself.
15:47:30 <xnox> bug 1038055
15:47:30 <xnox> Should this be targeted for Quantal beta-2 or something like that?
15:47:32 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1038055 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "cannot unlock LUKS devices / video mode not activated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1038055
15:47:44 <cjwatson> Not that I can remember where *that*'s implemented
15:47:54 <xnox> Also, please comment and share dev-mapper/udev wisdom on how to fix these two bugs in a sane way without breaking the whole world.
15:47:54 <xnox> bug 460906
15:47:54 <xnox> bug 995709
15:47:55 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 460906 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "disk/by-uuid/foo symlink points to snapshot rather than the origin" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460906
15:47:57 * cjwatson greps frenetically
15:47:57 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 995709 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "lvm should not scan the entire /dev tree by default" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/995709
15:48:07 <cjwatson> Ah yes, DPKG_UNTRANSLATED_MESSAGES
15:48:10 <slangasek> bdmurray: so I think the answer on 985652 is that yes, action is needed, but it's not obvious how to fix
15:48:36 <cjwatson> So ubiquity does set DPKG_UNTRANSLATED_MESSAGES, but apt ignores that
15:48:42 <cjwatson> (Rightly so)
15:49:15 <bdmurray> slangasek: okay
15:49:27 <xnox> cjwatson: ok, but what locale do we spawn apt in? /me can't remember seeing translated apt logs during live-cd. Will test while doing other ubiquity work.
15:49:36 <cjwatson> It should be in the installation locale
15:49:41 <cjwatson> It's possible that the locale isn't generated?
15:49:46 <slangasek> xnox: 460906> don't use by-uuid for dm devices
15:50:20 <cjwatson> Because doing so is very slow and takes oodles of memory
15:50:57 <slangasek> cjwatson: but surely if the rest of the UI is translated, the locale is there?
15:51:23 <cjwatson> No, because ubiquity makes special arrangements for itself
15:51:27 <slangasek> ah
15:51:35 <cjwatson> Its own translations come from debconf, which doesn't care whether the locale is generated
15:52:14 <cjwatson> We do generate the locale at some point, so it may just be a matter of messing about to pull that earlier
15:52:17 <cjwatson> I can give that a g
15:52:18 <slangasek> xnox: so my position is that bug #460906 is medium importance at highest; we never use UUID to identify dm devices when setting up /etc/fstab in the installer, because this is a known issue
15:52:19 <cjwatson> *go
15:52:19 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 460906 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "disk/by-uuid/foo symlink points to snapshot rather than the origin" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460906
15:52:56 <xnox> slangasek: but update-grub notices them (if they are mounted) and generates entries for them....
15:53:06 <slangasek> xnox: so anyone who's trying to reference their lvm devices by uuid has a gun pointed at their foot and we didn't put it there
15:53:11 <slangasek> xnox: ok; that's a bug in update-grub then
15:53:11 <xnox> slangasek: snapshots that is.
15:53:37 <xnox> slangasek: then should we stop generating those symlinks for lvm devices?
15:54:16 <slangasek> xnox: we should not spend time on the issue at all, because there's no perfect solution and the workarounds are well established
15:54:24 <xnox> ok.
15:54:32 <slangasek> but if update-grub is misbehaving (which I've never seen), that should be fixed
15:55:18 <slangasek> as for 995709... I have no idea :/
15:55:40 <slangasek> sorry
15:55:56 <slangasek> bug #1038055 is on my list to look at
15:55:57 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1038055 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "cannot unlock LUKS devices / video mode not activated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1038055
15:56:40 <slangasek> anything else on bugs?
15:57:27 <bdmurray> bug 837054
15:57:29 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 837054 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Time Zone selection shows about 20 different "New York"s and doesn't autoselect my location" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837054
15:57:29 <slangasek> #topic AOB
15:58:49 <xnox> bdmurray: i can implement a filter for it. Not sure if to do a set(location) or set(location, coordinates)
15:59:17 <slangasek> any other botanists?
15:59:54 <bdmurray> that is all from me
15:59:54 <slangasek> can we prod the data provider about their broken data?
16:00:24 <slangasek> otherwise, what ensures that "unique by coordinates" gives you the /right/ name?
16:00:47 <xnox> slangasek: well the data sometimes is good. for riga i get like "Riga", "Riga Internation Airport", "Riga Central", etc... but all of them are in the same timezone.
16:00:55 <xnox> all of Latvia is in the same timezone =)
16:01:43 <slangasek> xnox: ok, but if you look at the "New York" case, you see that a number of the values returned are translations of "New York City" into various languages
16:02:11 <slangasek> and there's nothing that tells which one should be preferred... unless you just take the first one in order, I guess?
16:02:19 <brendand> slangasek, it seems to me there's no good way to filter it and be sure that you've chosen the 'right' entry
16:02:27 <slangasek> yep
16:02:38 <brendand> slangasek, so the data is at fault really, not the code
16:02:40 <slangasek> hence my suggestion that we try to get the data provider to fix their feed
16:02:50 <brendand> slangasek, who's the data provider?
16:02:59 <slangasek> not sure
16:03:00 <ev> we are
16:03:03 <xnox> do we want to show: all names in the installer locale, or all names in "city language"
16:03:05 <brendand> slangasek, the server is an ubuntu one, so isn't it controlled by us?
16:03:07 <ev> effectively
16:03:08 <slangasek> ev: ah, heh ;)
16:03:18 <slangasek> ev: so who among us maintains it?
16:03:35 * ev chuckles
16:03:43 <brendand> ev - you?
16:03:50 <infinity> slangasek: Are you chanelling seb?
16:04:14 <slangasek> xnox: can you please file an RT about this, referencing the bug?
16:04:14 <infinity> But with an extra 'n'...
16:04:15 <ev> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-geonames-hackers/ubuntu-geonames/trunk/files
16:04:30 <slangasek> oh
16:04:50 <slangasek> ok, so not an RT just yet :)
16:05:18 <ev> http://geoname-lookup.ubuntu.com/?query=New%20York
16:05:20 <brendand> ev, so we *don't* control it then
16:05:40 <slangasek> xnox: do you want to fix the above branch? :)
16:06:43 <ev> mterry also has hacked on it in the past, if I find myself under a bus once you've finished the branch
16:06:59 <xnox> ok then.
16:07:01 <infinity> ev: Want to add foundations to that team?  Or ubuntu-installer?  Or something that seems appropriate and larger than you and mterry?
16:07:07 <ev> sure
16:07:53 <slangasek> bdmurray: ok, triaged :)
16:07:58 <slangasek> #endmeeting