14:01:08 #startmeeting Ubuntu QA - agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings 14:01:08 Meeting started Wed Aug 22 14:01:08 2012 UTC. The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 14:01:08 14:01:08 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 14:01:38 #topic attendance 14:01:54 can those present please asy o/ 14:01:57 o/ 14:01:58 *say* 14:02:20 o/ 14:03:06 #topic previous actions 14:03:38 balloons: have you actioned the one from 2 weeks ago? 14:03:57 * phillw balloons edit http://qa.ubuntu.com/ to reflect correct time of weekly meeting (phillw, 14:57:28) 14:05:08 phillw: I looked at qa.ubuntu.com, and I think balloons hasn't done it. 14:05:10 phillw, theres an open rt with ops to fix 14:05:20 i cannot do this myself 14:05:31 the reason is someone made it part of the theme 14:05:32 balloons: is this okay to carry over to be chased? 14:05:41 yea.. really :p 14:05:55 yes, carry 14:06:13 #action balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com 14:06:13 * meetingology balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com 14:06:43 #topic Ubuntu updates 14:07:05 balloons: would be so kind as to give the current state of play? 14:08:54 sure 14:11:00 12.04.1 for ubuntu testing is fairly complete 14:11:22 there's been a couple bugs targetted for inclusion should a respin need to occur, but that's not happened 14:12:07 on the flavors side, I know there has been some upgrade failure bugs :-) 14:12:47 .. 14:12:52 12.04.1 is for a later topic, but thanks. how is Quantel going? 14:13:14 #link http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds 14:14:19 ahh :-) 14:14:37 quantal has seen some new testing efforts with unity and compiz this week 14:15:01 that i think is going well, with some folks getting the first pass at llvmpipe and reporting bugs 14:16:01 I clarified my thoughts on cadence testing, and talked a bit about the future. arm daily builds are currently broken in quantal due to the unity3d move 14:16:42 in addition, nvidia driver is broken causing some havoc among the community depending on the driver to run quantal and unity3d 14:17:03 (since unity2d has been dropped) 14:18:34 discussions as to how this was handled will happen later, although, as I mentioned, I would like to see us change how we handle changes like this in the future 14:19:27 we don't have stability outside of milestones.. 14:19:27 .. 14:19:37 thanks. 14:19:40 :) 14:20:08 #topic discussion of test cases on iso tracker 14:20:17 I'll start this one... 14:20:43 The moving to 'old' of test cases without 'new' has caused issues 14:21:12 phillw: That's not moving:( 14:21:17 This really does need to looked into. 14:22:17 balloons: smartboyhw maybe we should move to the last sub-topic? 14:22:33 phillw, I'm unsure what your saying here 14:22:38 balloons: I agree 14:23:33 balloons: I went to carry out a test on behalf of a team and was met with a redundant test example, with no updated information available. 14:23:52 phillw: I don't understand now, really 14:23:54 ? 14:24:03 precise sadly is using the old testcases 14:24:22 updating the links would take a bit.. and this is the last time it will be used. I let it go 14:24:24 it simply said that the test case was 'old' 14:24:49 smartboyhw: does help explain it for you? 14:25:14 phillw, I'm confused.. I guess move on and we'll come back 14:25:14 phillw: I'm more confused with your lines 8 lines above. 14:25:46 #topic Updating Wiki 14:26:45 * njin arrived 14:26:45 balloons: with your permission, I'll put in an action for us both to catch our breath & have a concerted effort once again, to get it more new comer friendly? 14:27:03 welcome njin 14:27:17 hallo everybody 14:27:22 phillw, the fight must go on :-0 14:27:22 welcome njin 14:27:30 but i think we are in a good spot 14:27:47 i plan to maybe make a new video 14:27:50 Actually I forgot to add a G+ and FB topic to the agenda... 14:27:53 #action phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki 14:27:53 * meetingology phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki 14:28:26 smartboyhw: it can be disussed at AOB 14:28:31 OK 14:29:00 I can skip 12.04.1 as we have already had an update. 14:29:19 Wait, I saw Mythbuntu images not tested now 14:29:36 #topic Any Other business, over load of QA team 14:29:45 o/ 14:29:50 smartboyhw: it's here 14:30:06 balloons: please take the floor 14:30:20 phillw: ? 14:30:42 I also wanted to mention I ended some testing campaigns this week that had run there course 14:30:54 I'll post some followup feedback and thank yous 14:31:00 OK 14:31:07 .. 14:32:27 balloons: just for discussion, I think QA attempted a 'bridge too far'. 14:32:36 phillw: What bridge?:) 14:32:55 smartboyhw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Market_Garden 14:33:10 ? 14:33:42 I'm not used to you guys showing Wiki links that I don't understand. 14:34:34 What? balloons left? 14:34:42 Oh, he's back:) 14:34:45 whoa... sorry 14:35:06 balloons, your dog pllayng with the power cqable ? 14:35:12 lol.. 14:35:19 me hitting ctrl + w 14:35:19 njin: +1, LOL and :P 14:35:31 dog is napping 14:35:39 sorry phillw, ask again 14:35:47 balloons: I think that trying to do re-writes of testing cases, carrying on standard release testing, bringing in cadence testing, testing 12.04.1 was too much for our resources to cope with. 14:36:01 phillw: 12.04.1 will end today 14:36:09 This has resulted in some frustrated testers. 14:36:23 phillw: Who are the frustrated testers, BTW?:( 14:36:48 smartboyhw: I do not need to name people. nor would I ever. 14:37:09 OK, but I thought it isn't too much, just 3 items after today or tmr 14:38:01 phillw, yes, alot has been asked of QA this cycle 14:38:43 of course, this is Q cicle 14:38:47 balloons: I fear too much has. The last thing I want is for testers to say 'this is getting silly' and walk away. 14:39:11 phillw: No. 14:39:14 I did promise that I would bring the matter up. 14:40:03 phillw, burnout potential will always be with us, no matter our workload 14:40:22 i would remind everyone to make sure they keep there own workloads sane :-) 14:40:25 balloons: it can be reduced by not asking them to do 3 tasks at one? 14:40:35 it's important to pause. 14:40:52 phillw, perhaps the issue at hand here is people feeling obligated to help on every bit of testing 14:41:10 balloons: That's my case:) 14:41:14 balloons: they are dedicated people, and fell personally that they have failed if they do not 'keep up'. i do ask that this is borne in mind in future. 14:41:15 I would rather them see 3 things going on as an oppurtunity to chose one to invovle themselves 14:41:40 balloons: I want to join all 3...:( 14:41:44 I know.. if I ask for 4 things at once, and one doesn't seemingly get attention... 14:41:50 the people will do it anyway 14:41:56 and I'm very grateful for that 14:42:15 but yes, that leads to burnout.. and I don't want that at all 14:42:25 balloons: indeed it is. we need to address the issue of 'where to concentrate our resources', they are not infinite. 14:42:47 ahh! the issue of what we test and what we work on is more concrete 14:43:06 balloons and phillw: Does that mean we will only let people to select 1 or 2 tests to do? 14:43:08 that we can speak specifically too 14:43:32 smartboyhw, you are always free to test in whatever capacity you wish 14:43:36 as is everyone else.. 14:43:58 i do try to space things out and allow for pauses, but it's not always possible 14:44:16 that said,, if there are feelings of frivilous testing going on. let's discuss specifically 14:44:26 balloons: yes, but we do need to rate which is 'please do this one, the others can wait to another day when you have slept and have time' 14:44:33 OK thx balloons 14:45:01 phillw: I think the standard one is better 14:45:02 balloons: if it not made possible, then the release cycle requires looking at. 14:45:06 phillw, I can try and communicate the 'please be kind to yourself!' mantra when I push things out 14:45:26 for instance, the unity testing overlapping 12.04.1 14:45:53 I didn't want it to happen, but it did. however, there are folks who don't iso test, who could go out and mess with it right away 14:45:53 that would be one... cadence overlapping milestones would be another 14:45:54 Actually, 12.04.1 will be ending today, right??? It's 12.04.2 coming. Now I'm confused 14:46:28 if your isotesting 12.04.1... perhaps that's enough, and you can test unity if you wish later 14:46:45 ell but I think that this is not the right time to evaluate things, too many works and really few people cause vacations 14:46:47 balloons: I don't have more to test. 14:46:56 I still have no deffinitive answer to the testers. "What is the priority each week?" 14:47:04 maybe that could be done? 14:47:08 phillw: It would be difficult 14:47:20 phillw, sure.. 14:47:29 1st week: Unity 2nd week: Cadence 3rd week: Unity 4th Week: Milestone? 14:47:39 if we are working from deadlines, this week is 12.04.1 14:48:07 Well, today IS the deadline for 12.04.1 testing, am I correct?:) 14:48:26 balloons: indeed, and a major problem in upgrade-manager has been found that will result in a 'no-go' 14:48:46 * balloons notes they are respinning the alts as we speak 14:49:11 balloons: True 14:49:15 Also Mythbuntu 14:49:23 10.04.4 --> 12.04 is a massive fail. This should have been caught much earlier, but the testers were running around doing other testing. 14:49:57 phillw, well.. 14:50:17 this is a big topic.. I'm not sure opening that can of worms would be productive 14:50:51 let's push forward to what you want to see in the future 14:50:58 I think we should discuss it in #ubuntu-testing instead... 14:51:04 balloons: maybe next time testers are asked to do stuff, maybe explain back that they are as rare as rocking horse droppings? :P 14:51:15 :D 14:51:21 :D 14:51:22 .. 14:51:25 .. 14:51:28 yeah, we have to put more attention on lts to lts+1 14:51:36 balloons: that is what I was hoping to do. 14:51:45 phillw, which problem in upgrade-manager are you talking about ? 14:51:47 but number ? 14:51:50 bug 14:52:34 I'we only run one test and it was working 14:53:10 jibel: I have the logs from #kubuntu-devel, but that is not for a meeting 14:54:20 can we all migrate to #ubuntu-testing and discuss? this is not strictly a "meeting" topic? 14:54:21 phillw, ok, paste it on #ubuntu-testing, I'd like to know what a "massive fail" is 14:54:33 phillw: I AGREE 14:54:49 please move to #ubuntu-testing 14:54:55 #endmeeting