17:01:03 <pleia2> #startmeeting
17:01:03 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 16 17:01:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
17:01:03 <meetingology> 
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17:01:19 <pleia2> Community Council meeting :) welcome all
17:01:23 <czajkowski> aloha
17:01:28 <sabdfl> allo allo
17:01:47 <pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
17:01:48 <Gwaihir> o/
17:02:20 <pleia2> so I think the only thing we really have on the agenda is catching up with the 12:00 membership board
17:02:28 <pleia2> #topic Ubuntu Membership Board GMT+ catchup
17:02:37 <pleia2> who all is here from that board?
17:02:41 <cyphermox> o/
17:02:47 <czajkowski> cyphermox: hey there
17:02:48 * cjohnston is from 2200, but I'm here
17:03:01 <pleia2> the boards are rather fluid anyway, all welcome
17:03:04 <cyphermox> czajkowski: hi :)
17:03:11 * micahg is GMT- (US)
17:03:23 <hggdh> o/
17:03:32 <sabdfl> o/
17:03:39 <pleia2> we pretty much just take this opportunity to check in, make sure there aren't any problems or blockers, ask for nice stories :)
17:03:42 * hggdh is flexible
17:03:43 * micahg doesn't quite understand how GMT+ is descriptive of a time
17:04:18 <cyphermox> pleia2: it seems to me as though the new split of the boards is working pretty well to both get good time coverage, and avoid meetings without quorum
17:05:00 <cyphermox> the biggest issue I've noticed (and it wasn't all that much, just complicated) was for some applicants in Myanmar IIRC who can't sign the CoC.
17:05:13 <cyphermox> I'm not certain of the current status of that
17:05:30 <czajkowski> cyphermox: I asked the user to let us know exactly what steps they were taking
17:05:41 <micahg> there's also an issue of people not realizing that significant and sustained contributions are required for membership
17:05:50 <hggdh> indeed
17:06:00 <hggdh> but I think this has always been the case
17:06:07 <czajkowski> so launchpad could look into it and possibly see if another keyserver should be used.
17:06:23 <czajkowski> micahg: what do you mea?
17:06:32 <czajkowski> are people applying too soon or not tracking their work ?
17:06:42 <cjohnston> Possibly both.
17:06:45 <cjohnston> imo
17:06:56 <cjohnston> Or either
17:06:57 <micahg> yeah
17:07:37 <cyphermox> agree. We've had some (few) applications for membership thought of as a permission to contribute, basically
17:07:56 * pleia2 nods
17:08:17 <cyphermox> I think we did a good job at explaining the idea though; and it was well received and understood
17:08:58 <sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu is still accurate at first glance
17:09:14 <sabdfl> perhaps exhaustingly so :)
17:09:16 <cyphermox> The issue I think is that we can hardly make it clearer on the wiki, so yes we're dependent on people actually reading the pages
17:09:33 <YokoZar> cyphermox: That worries me about some unseen portion of people not contributing because they don't want to bother applying for membership
17:10:00 <cyphermox> YokoZar: I wonder if that would really stop people from contributing?
17:10:09 <pleia2> even https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards does link to the membership guidelines, and that's the page they add their name to, so it is at least seen (if not read)
17:10:12 <YokoZar> Perhaps it's a thing of making "Ubuntu Membership" a more visible concept than "contribute to ubuntu"
17:10:21 <YokoZar> (for some instances)
17:10:39 <cyphermox> pleia2: sabdfl: perhaps we could like to ContributeToUbuntu from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
17:11:14 <micahg> well,  who to apply for rights is wrong on that wiki page (I don't think I've ever seen that page before :))
17:11:27 <micahg> on the ContributeToUbuntu page that is
17:11:27 <pleia2> cyphermox: maybe something like "Not ready for membership yet? Learn more about how you can ContributeToUbuntu"
17:11:29 <cyphermox> but I don't think it's going to change all that much; I'm afraid there will always be a portion of people who don't read or don't understand what we mean, due to the language barrier maybe.
17:11:50 <pleia2> cyphermox: agreed
17:12:13 <cyphermox> I think it's far fvrom being a moajority of the applications that really run into this kind of problem, we can always explain in more detail during the meeting
17:12:20 <czajkowski> well we could ask the community to help translate the pages?
17:12:31 <hggdh> that would be nice
17:12:33 <cyphermox> cjohnston: yes
17:12:36 <cyphermox> woops
17:13:03 <czajkowski> cyphermox: :)
17:13:21 <czajkowski> ok I'll look into getting the membership age translated if folks want
17:13:39 <czajkowski> pleia2: sabdfl YokoZar that seem like a good ide?
17:13:43 <czajkowski> *idea
17:13:45 <pleia2> yes, thanks :)
17:13:53 <cyphermox> I can spend some time to translate it to French, perhaps
17:14:02 <czajkowski> pleia2: action me that and will sort that out monday
17:14:07 <czajkowski> or tomorrow before I leave
17:14:50 <pleia2> #action czajkowski to look into into getting the /Membership wiki page translated
17:14:50 * meetingology czajkowski to look into into getting the /Membership wiki page translated
17:15:26 <sabdfl> perhaps we just need a simplified version in the local language?
17:16:14 <hggdh> or perhaps a simplified version also in English, pointing to the full version
17:16:26 <hggdh> where we only hightlight the points
17:16:52 <cyphermox> hggdh: +1
17:17:38 <pleia2> #action Membership board to look into writing simplified membership page
17:17:38 * meetingology Membership board to look into writing simplified membership page
17:17:41 <pleia2> there :)
17:18:14 <hggdh> heh
17:18:26 <pleia2> anything else?
17:18:46 <hggdh> not from me, I am happy as a drunken clam
17:19:03 <pleia2> thanks for coming, we'll invite you guys back on September 20th if other members wish to join us at a meeting then
17:19:16 <hggdh> cheers
17:19:20 <pleia2> (might even plan to follow up on how this membership page stuff is going)
17:19:36 <pleia2> #topic Any other business
17:19:38 * hggdh goes for a lunch
17:19:51 <pleia2> anyone have anything else they wish to announce or bring up during this CC meeting?
17:20:13 <czajkowski> just the CoC review
17:20:33 <czajkowski> any update YokoZar ?
17:20:51 <YokoZar> Is it just waiting on me now?
17:21:06 <YokoZar> Or are there still sections we needed to redo in other ways
17:21:11 <pleia2> YokoZar: can you have a look at the etherpad and update language/grammar issues?
17:21:26 <pleia2> then dholbach will check in the changes and we'll review again
17:21:44 <YokoZar> Yeah.  I was holding off a bit on a couple sections cause I thought we might redo them to mean something different.
17:21:53 <YokoZar> But I'll take a hack at it today then.
17:22:13 <pleia2> we're pretty much set, just give me a nudge if you're unsure about any sections (I think it could use a little cleanup)
17:22:22 <YokoZar> Sorry I got disconnected for last 10 minutes somehow :/
17:22:50 <micahg> o/
17:23:06 <YokoZar> Anyway there was something I wanted to discuss (that micahg brought up earlier) :)
17:23:09 * ejat sorry im late, just arrive home from work ..
17:23:33 * micahg puts his DMB hat on
17:23:39 <YokoZar> Yup
17:24:03 <YokoZar> The idea is pretty simple: Remove the instant grant of membership that being granted upload rights has.
17:24:16 <YokoZar> and in so doing remove the requirement that an uploader be a member
17:24:44 <pleia2> beuno was supposed to send an email to the DMB board list to discuss that, but he's been quite busy
17:24:46 <YokoZar> Noting that uploading could in itself be a kind of significant/sustained contribution that could one day grant membership
17:24:50 <pleia2> can you?
17:24:53 <YokoZar> Sure
17:24:56 <sabdfl> in the name of accelerating upload permissions for promising contributors who don't yet meet the "substantial and sustained" test?
17:25:08 <micahg> sabdfl: yes, exactly
17:25:14 <sabdfl> sounds sensible
17:25:17 <YokoZar> sabdfl: precisely.  Maybe someone is trusted for a single package that they upload once a year or something.
17:25:35 <sabdfl> oh, i thought we did this when we introduced per-package-uploads, and package sets?
17:25:46 <pleia2> the meeting it was discussed and action item are from early july: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/12/July
17:25:49 <cyphermox> it sounds like a nice idea, but don't we already look for significant/sustained contributions to grant upload rights?
17:26:05 <pleia2> cyphermox: not so much for PPUs
17:26:13 <cyphermox> ah; right
17:26:45 <YokoZar> cyphermox: for general "I am Ubuntu developer and can upload to all of universe" we would though
17:27:09 <cyphermox> yes, I understand the issue is far more specific to PPU rights :)
17:27:14 * cyphermox goes to lunch
17:27:24 <YokoZar> #action YokoZar to email DMB ~ membership not being required for PPU rights
17:27:24 * meetingology YokoZar to email DMB ~ membership not being required for PPU rights
17:27:42 <pleia2> thanks :)
17:27:46 <YokoZar> #action YokoZar to push new branch of CoC update based on latest Etherpad
17:27:46 * meetingology YokoZar to push new branch of CoC update based on latest Etherpad
17:27:51 <pleia2> \o/
17:28:15 <YokoZar> All right then
17:28:21 <pleia2> ok, anything else?
17:28:22 <Laney> can normal people like me see this branch and pad? ;-)
17:28:41 <czajkowski> Laney: we will be making the branch public after this
17:29:03 <pleia2> and we won't publish formally until we have the community review again
17:29:09 <czajkowski> yup
17:29:12 <czajkowski> same as before
17:29:15 <czajkowski> which worked out well
17:29:17 <sabdfl> Laney, please do look at it to see if it reflects our UDS session
17:29:30 <Laney> I'd like to, that's why I'm asking where it is
17:29:31 <sabdfl> i will do a review once there's a delta
17:29:36 <sabdfl> cool, thank you Laney
17:29:37 <pleia2> we fixed the "ubuntu is more important than your husband and dog" part :)
17:29:58 <pleia2> but yeah, we'll get it publich asap
17:30:07 <pleia2> published too
17:30:16 <sabdfl> i liked Rick's framing - "contribute to Ubuntu with the intention of making it better for its users"
17:30:21 <sabdfl> cool
17:30:25 <sabdfl> thanks all
17:30:31 <pleia2> thanks everyone
17:30:50 <pleia2> #endmeeting