18:00:14 <jono> #startmeeting
18:00:14 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 26 18:00:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is jono. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
18:00:14 <meetingology> 
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18:00:17 <jono> hey folks!
18:00:24 <jono> who is hear for the Ubuntu Accomplishments team meeting?
18:00:53 * janos_ here
18:01:03 <janos_> hey jono!
18:01:08 <notgary> Me o/
18:01:11 <jono> hey janos_!
18:01:11 <Andy80> <---- me :)
18:01:24 <margo> hi
18:01:25 <jono> cool, thanks, folks for joining us :-)
18:01:30 <jvrbanac> here
18:01:48 <jono> awesome :-)
18:02:05 <jono> so which of you folks is new and interested in helping with the project?
18:02:15 <jaywink> \o/ new here, would like to help :)
18:02:20 <margo> me too
18:02:21 <jvrbanac> I'm new here as well
18:03:02 <jono> fantastic, so maybe if you folks could just let us know the kind of things you like doing (e.g. programming, writing docs) or anything else, and we can get you started :-)
18:03:48 <jaywink> programming here: do Python mostly and I like the idea so figured this would be a nice way to try Ubuntu stuff for the first time
18:03:59 <jono> jaywink, oh awesome!
18:04:11 <jono> jaywink, you should take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/GetInvolved/Hacking first
18:04:12 <Andy80> I like to code, maybe you remember I contributed with a small accomplishment. But right now (at least until the end of august) I cannot be sure to have enough time to help, since I work all day and when I go back home I'm very tired :(
18:04:30 <Andy80> so I'm here just to listen and to remain updated with the project status
18:04:38 <jono> Andy80, no worries, anything you can do to help would be great - maybe helping with some bugfixes?
18:04:44 <jvrbanac> Programming here. I took a look at at the hacking portion of the Wiki last night
18:04:48 <margo> i can code too, but i am not too experienced, and i can write doc or translate to german too if that is needed
18:04:55 <jono> jvrbanac, ahhh cool, did it make sense?
18:04:58 <jaywink> jono, yeah did read through today, will need to dig in deeper
18:04:59 <TheTattooedGeek> Hey Jono, Just here to see where the project is headed.. the only language I currently work in is PHP
18:05:07 <jvrbanac> yes it did.
18:05:08 <notgary> I'm relatively new here. Been to one meeting before and chimed in on the mailing list once. I'm a software developer in my day job, working with C++ and Qt. I'm making my way into iOS development in my spare time and have python and Django/Quickly on my todo list to learn.
18:05:14 <epikvision> I want to learn to code.
18:05:28 <jono> cool, so it seems like a lot of coding interest here
18:05:36 <gigix> hello
18:05:37 <jono> you folks should definitely check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/GetInvolved/Hacking to get started
18:05:57 <jono> it explains how to install the branches and provides some details of how the project works
18:06:15 <jono> this is an evolving document so if things are not clear, do let me know, and I will clarify and then update the doc so everyone benefits
18:06:45 <jono> you folks should all join #ubuntu-accomplishments for sure
18:07:15 <jono> and I know a few of you mentioned being new, well the other primary hacker on the project, cielek, who unfortunately could not make the meeting today, well he was new to Python when he joined
18:07:20 <jono> and he is doing awesome work on the project
18:07:33 <jono> we just want to make sure that getting involved is as simple as possible
18:07:45 <TheTattooedGeek> nice
18:07:50 <jono> we are also growing our API docs for the project - they are linked on the Hacking page too
18:08:03 <jono> so if you want to start on something, we recommend picking a bug and hacking on it
18:08:19 <margo> sounds good ;)
18:08:28 <jono> the Viewer bugs are probably the easiest to get started with, and the bugs list is at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-accomplishments-viewer
18:08:39 <jono> just pick a bug, work on it in your branch and then submit it
18:08:57 <jono> details of how to hack on it and submit it are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/GetInvolved/Hacking#Step_4:_Create_and_Submit_Your_Fix
18:09:30 <jono> you might also want to join the mailing list at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-accomplishments-contributors
18:09:31 <jaywink> are bugs usually claimed or just worked on by however gets it done first? :) I guess that's not normally a problem ;)
18:09:40 <janos_> and if you have any questions along the way, usually somebody on #ubuntu-accomplishments can help if you explain where you got stuck
18:09:57 <jono> jaywink, right now we recommend people just pick a bug and post a comment to say they are working on it
18:10:17 <jono> but if you find you don't have time, please post a follow up comment so the bug is not blocked by others thinking you are working on it
18:10:35 <jono> yeah as janos_ says, we are always open to questions in #ubuntu-accomplishments
18:10:46 <jono> do any of you have any questions about the project, how to get started, or the code?
18:10:58 <TheTattooedGeek> negative
18:11:16 <gigix> so far so good for me
18:11:28 <jono> cool
18:11:43 <jono> well feel free to chip in with questions if you have them
18:11:47 <janos_> the wiki has step-by-step instructions, if something is missing or was not clear to you, let us know because others might be blocked by the same thing too
18:11:47 <jaywink> have been scared to participate in any UBuntu project so far - but this has been laid our so well that had to :) props, no questions so far, the hacking page is a good intro
18:12:12 <jono> jaywink, awesome! well, happy to take more questions so I can also expand the docs
18:12:31 <jono> jaywink, I recommend just picking a bug, starting hacking on it, and then just asking questions where you are unsure
18:12:48 <jono> and when you contribute your fix, we will also do a code review and offer further comments and guidance
18:12:56 <jaywink> ok cool
18:12:58 <jono> our goal is to make our community as welcoming and open as possible :-)
18:13:32 <jono> ok, so next topic
18:13:44 <jono> which will be of interest to janos_ and gepatino_mobile in particular
18:13:57 <jono> I have been chatting with Canonical IS about how we can have them host the project
18:14:03 <jono> I am not the best sysadmin :-)
18:14:07 <jono> this is the broad plan:
18:14:20 <jono> * Canonical IS will set up a VM with a staging and production environment
18:14:34 <jono> * trophies.ubuntu.com will be production and staging.trophies.ubuntu.com will be staging
18:14:51 <janos_> that is so awesome
18:14:54 <jono> * they will deploy our current validation server, the web gallery, and our admin interface
18:15:07 <jono> :-)
18:15:37 <gepatino_mobile> jono, will the soft be updated automatically or by request?
18:15:39 <jono> we will all work on the staging server and when we cut a release in bzr, we will notify IS who will simply do a pull on production to deploy the code (as well as any additional deployment steps)
18:16:07 <jono> gepatino_mobile, my thinking is that for staging we will try to have hourly updates but for production it will be pulled on new releases
18:16:09 <jono> make sense?>
18:16:14 <janos_> jono how do we tell them the additional deployment steps?
18:16:31 <jono> janos_, we can always put it in a document somewhere
18:16:33 * gepatino_mobile is typing in a blackberry on the bus...
18:16:45 <jono> gepatino_mobile, I admire your commitment to the meeting :-)
18:16:49 <gepatino_mobile> sounds good
18:17:00 <jono> ok cool
18:17:09 <jono> so I chatted to mbarnett today about this
18:17:24 <jono> and we can also safely presume the two django apps will be on the same machine as the validation server
18:17:34 <jono> which means we can presume the web gallery can see the shares
18:17:51 <jono> so there should be no changes requires to deploy in Canonical IS
18:18:05 <gepatino_mobile> makes sense, I was actually thinking more in staging than prod
18:18:13 <jono> right
18:18:28 <jono> it would be cool to have the current list of shares in staging as well as prod
18:18:34 <jono> so this should make your work easier
18:19:02 <jono> is there anything that you guys need janos_, gepatino_mobile?
18:20:29 <gepatino_mobile> for staging, probably we don't need live shares, a copy could be enough
18:20:31 <gepatino_mobile> updated daily, maybe
18:20:48 <jono> right
18:21:02 <jono> I am thinking we could just copy over the lives shares once a day to staging
18:21:07 <jono> hey n8k99
18:21:13 <n8k99> hi jono
18:21:30 <n8k99> got here as quickly as i could
18:21:35 <jono> no worries :-)
18:21:37 <jono> thanks for joining us!
18:21:45 <jono> n8k99, are you interested in contributing to the project?
18:22:06 <n8k99> i am, i like the accomplishments application
18:22:24 <n8k99> the concept is pretty cool way to drive more interest in the ubuntu community and project
18:22:25 <jono> n8k99, awesome - what kind of contribution? programming, docs, translations?
18:22:45 <janos_> jono: not sure the automatic updates are a good idea even on staging
18:22:57 <jono> janos_, no?
18:23:08 <n8k99> i had an idea this morning, started trying to write it, to make an accomplishment for making your first accomplishment for ubuntu-accomplishments
18:23:11 <jono> janos_, how do you think we should update staging? just a pull?
18:23:28 <jono> n8k99, cool!
18:23:28 <janos_> jono: if it takes the IS folks days or weeks to perform the manual deployment steps, then the site can be broken for days or weeks
18:23:32 <n8k99> far too meta perhaps, but i got the .accomlishment written
18:23:44 <jono> janos_, right, this is why I think automatic staging might work best
18:23:52 <jono> janos_, updating production should be quick
18:24:00 <jono> asking them to perform a pull doesn't take much
18:24:16 <jono> n8k99, oh cool!
18:24:29 <jono> n8k99, we are definitely in need of new accomplishments so I am glad you are helping :-)
18:24:36 <n8k99> coding isn't really my strong suit, but i'm gonna give that a whack
18:24:45 <janos_> jono: the current demo site was often broken for many days because of the automatic pull and that no sysadmin had time to do the manual steps
18:24:52 <jono> n8k99, well you can help in other ways too, such as writing the docs :-)
18:25:00 <jono> janos_, ahhh I see
18:25:08 <n8k99> that was where i was seeing my bigger contributions coming in
18:25:15 <jono> janos_, so I presume you would prefer if you could do a pull directly
18:25:41 <janos_> jono: I think it's better the IS update the staging site when they can actually perform the manual steps too
18:25:51 <gepatino_mobile> jono, janos_: could we have some kind of access to do the deploys? maybe using sdome deployment tool?
18:25:53 <jono> janos_, we could do that
18:26:08 <jono> janos_, how often do you think you will need staging updated?
18:26:23 <jono> n8k99, awesome :-)
18:26:30 <jono> n8k99, well your help is much appreciated :-)
18:26:33 <gepatino_mobile> juju someone? :)
18:26:46 <n8k99> glad to be involved again after far too long away!!
18:26:48 <jono> gepatino_mobile, a juju charm might be a good solution
18:26:54 <oneouthere> jono: do you have to be on ubuntu to add to the coding?
18:26:55 <janos_> jono: i think it's better if the IS guys do the update, so they build up expertise which will be useful for troubleshooting PROD in the future
18:27:11 <jono> oneouthere, pretty much, you need at least Ubuntu 12.04 to run the current codebase
18:27:22 <jono> oneouthere, we haven't tried it on other distros
18:27:39 <jono> janos_, how often do you think you will need staging updated?
18:27:56 <oneouthere> jono, okay thank you
18:28:03 <janos_> jono: once a week or so?
18:28:17 <jono> janos_, and is it the same manual steps each time that are run?
18:28:29 <jono> I am wondering whether this could be rolled into a juju deployment charm for the site
18:28:31 <janos_> jono: most of the time there are no manual steps
18:28:38 <jono> jan
18:28:43 <jono> janos_, I see
18:29:05 <jono> lets have a conversation with jcastro about this post-meeting - I will kick off a thread and lets see if Juju can support this
18:29:11 <jono> if not we can see if there is another option
18:29:23 <jono> I think it would be good if you guys could trigger a staging update when needed
18:29:29 <jono> and IS look after the production instance
18:29:35 <jono> then you are not blocked
18:30:10 <janos_> ok let's discuss later or in emails
18:30:23 <gepatino_mobile> that would be great, theres another python framework for deploying, but i cant remember the name
18:30:31 <jono> ok cool
18:30:33 <jono> thanks folks
18:31:01 <jono> the good news is that we should be in a position to get this up and running over the next few weeks
18:31:08 <n8k99> thank you!
18:31:18 <jono> janos_, gepatino_mobile can you summarize what the web gallery does now and what functionality is missing?
18:31:45 <janos_> sure, hang on
18:32:03 <jono> thanks
18:32:29 <janos_> 1. most of the functionality is there, as per the spec document
18:32:54 <janos_> 2. most of the pages are "not the prettiest" and need some touching up in the graphics
18:33:17 <jono> maybe imbrandon can help with the CSS there
18:33:22 <jono> he is a bit of a CSS guru :-
18:33:24 <jono> :-)
18:33:40 <janos_> we definitely need that
18:34:00 <jono> seeing if he is online and can join the meeting
18:34:15 <jono> I am sure he would be happy to help
18:34:22 <janos_> 3. the opportunities page should not show already achieved accomplishments
18:35:04 <janos_> 4. locked opportunities should use a lock image overlay like the viewer does
18:36:06 <jono> awesome
18:36:21 <janos_> 5. "Responsive design" would be nice, so the site looks nice on screens of all sizes
18:36:26 <janos_> I think these are the big todo items
18:36:31 <jono> sounds great
18:36:32 <janos_> gepatino_mobile: feel free to add!
18:36:42 <jono> I presume the mobile stylesheet is not started yet
18:36:42 <janos_> btw guys you can see it in action here: http://213.138.100.229:8000/
18:37:02 <janos_> jono: nope, and some css guru awesomeness would be great there
18:37:03 <jono> :-)
18:37:16 <jono> I am almost 100% sure Brandon would love to help with this
18:37:20 <jono> I will drop him an email
18:37:39 * gepatino is back to a real keyboard
18:37:45 <jono> gepatino, welcome! :-)
18:37:53 <jono> thanks again for you hard work janos_ gepatino
18:37:56 <jono> so quick q
18:38:12 <gepatino> i've read up to janos_ point 2, did I miss something?
18:38:14 <jono> in the future it would be nice to show things such as "Other people who have accomplished this trophy"
18:38:26 <jono> I presume this is possible with the current data structure?
18:38:33 <jono> gepatino, he made more points:
18:38:48 <jono> <jono> maybe imbrandon can help with the CSS there
18:38:48 <jono> he is a bit of a CSS guru :-
18:38:48 <jono> :-)
18:38:48 <jono> <janos_> we definitely need that
18:38:48 <jono> <jono> seeing if he is online and can join the meeting
18:38:49 <jono> I am sure he would be happy to help
18:38:53 <jono> JanC janos_
18:38:55 <jono> <janos_> 3. the opportunities page should not show already achieved accomplishments
18:38:57 <jono> 4. locked opportunities should use a lock image overlay like the viewer does
18:38:59 <jono> <jono> awesome
18:39:01 <jono> <-- virgil153 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
18:39:03 <jono> <janos_> 5. "Responsive design" would be nice, so the site looks nice on screens of all sizes
18:39:05 <jono> I think these are the big todo items
18:39:07 <jono> <jono> sounds great
18:39:09 <jono> <janos_> gepatino_mobile: feel free to add!
18:39:11 <jono> <jono> I presume the mobile stylesheet is not started yet
18:39:13 <jono> <janos_> btw guys you can see it in action here: http://213.138.100.229:8000/
18:39:15 <jono> <-- gepatino_mobile has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
18:39:17 <jono> <janos_> jono: nope, and some css guru awesomeness would be great there
18:39:47 <janos_> jono yes we can do this: "Other people who have accomplished this trophy"
18:39:50 <gepatino> I could ad a 6th point: I'm not sure if we got rid of some duplicated urls
18:40:08 <gepatino> maybe we should review the current url catalog before going live
18:40:17 <jono> gepatino, makes sense
18:40:20 <jono> janos_, cool
18:40:39 <jono> I am concious that we don't provide leaderboards (as people game them) but other social features would be cool
18:40:55 <jono> so it sounds like the core infrastructure will support those social features
18:40:57 <jono> awesome
18:41:24 <jono> ok, anything else on the deployment topic?
18:41:45 <gepatino> is there any estimate on how many users/shared we'll have when launching this?
18:42:04 <janos_> gazillions
18:42:14 <n8k99> that's an awfully small number
18:42:37 <jono> gepatino, not sure yet, I need to give IS an estimation of traffic
18:42:47 <jono> currently we have some stats:
18:42:50 <gepatino> are we sure that crawling all the shares to get the current trophies will work with so many users?
18:43:01 <jono> today we have about 700 users
18:43:19 * gepatino only made tests with millions, not gazillions :/
18:43:25 <jono> hehe
18:43:41 <jono> I don't anticipate us hitting scaling issues for a while
18:44:01 <gepatino> ok, so it's something to be reviewed in future releases
18:44:17 <jono> I think we will be under 5000 shares for a while
18:44:30 <gepatino> ok, that's not that much
18:44:31 <jono> but who knows
18:44:37 <jono> I hope we explode with popularity :-)
18:44:50 <jono> the good news is that fixing scaling issues on the validation server would be simple
18:44:55 <gepatino> in that case we'll have to run, as usual in IT :)
18:45:11 <jono> indeed :-)
18:45:17 <jono> ok then, any other questions or topics?
18:45:37 <jvrbanac> Speaking about scalability, What is the policy on contributing towards code improvements, optimization, and unit testing?
18:45:54 <jvrbanac> ^speaking of
18:46:00 <notgary> Just like to point out that I pushed a basic iOS app to Launchpad yesterday. https://code.launchpad.net/~notgary/+junk/ubuntu-accomplishments-ios-app
18:46:07 <jono> jvrbanac, we welcome all contributions towards that
18:46:16 <notgary> It's very basic - I wrote a grand total of 4 lines
18:46:31 <jono> jvrbanac, mfisch has been working on unit tests for the daemon - most of the tests are in place
18:46:44 <jvrbanac> jono, awesome thanks!
18:46:45 <notgary> But it point to a hard-coded url, in this case the project wiki until trophies.ubuntu.com goes live
18:46:51 <jono> jvrbanac, we have performed some optimizations over the last few releases, but plenty more scope for improvements
18:47:15 <jono> jvrbanac, if you see areas of improvement that are quite big changes, we recommend you mail the list first to discuss, but feel free to hack on a branch and propose it
18:47:20 <jono> notgary, oh wow!
18:47:31 * n8k99 is wondering about some of the launchpad account interactions
18:47:42 <jono> notgary, did you see the MobileSpec?
18:47:45 <n8k99> probably more of a QA interest at this point
18:48:00 <jono> notgary, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accomplishments/Specs/Mobile
18:48:17 <jono> n8k99, what kind of interactions?
18:48:47 <n8k99> there's been a few bugs filed where the launchpad accomplishments are not being picked up
18:49:18 <jono> n8k99, yeah we have had a few bugs where trophies are not validated
18:49:39 <jono> in most cases this has typically been due to Ubuntu One downtime or someone entering their credentials with a typo
18:49:46 <notgary> jono, I've seem it. It looks like the bulk of the functionality will be implemented server-side with the device-specific CSS. My plan was to wait until that got started before adding more code into the app, so I could see what actually needed the work.
18:49:59 <jono> notgary, perfect :-)
18:50:21 <jono> notgary, yeah, our thinking is a custom stylesheet for each device, and then the app has native menus that point to different parts of the site
18:50:49 <notgary> Has anyone started an Android app yet, because I'd be willing to work on that too, given that there's little involved in a wrapper for a web site.
18:51:01 <n8k99> i probably need to look at the way its being done before i'm able to form my thinking into an actual question
18:51:02 <jono> notgary, nope, no one contributed anything yet
18:51:08 <jono> n8k99, no worries!
18:51:21 <jono> n8k99, feel free to post the mailing list or ask on IRC when you are ready
18:51:28 <n8k99> i will. :-)
18:51:36 <jono> man, the mobile is going to be sweet :-)
18:52:11 <jono> any other topics or questions?
18:52:26 <notgary> That iOS project contains an iPad app as well
18:52:32 <jono> cool
18:52:32 <notgary> so we should get tablet CSS too
18:52:45 <n8k99> speaking of mobile, are there plans to be able to push trophies out to social media channels?
18:52:50 <jono> I am going to ask imbrandon if he can contribute stylesheets for the different devices
18:53:05 <jono> n8k99, yep, we have built in support in the desktop client
18:53:13 <jono> this could arguably be added on trophies.ubuntu.com too
18:53:19 <janos_> notgary: is there a way test an ios app without an ios dev env?
18:53:45 <jaywink> optional automatic social media pushing on trophies would be cool :)  <--- lazy
18:54:00 <notgary> Not that I'm aware of. I'll look into it and let you know on the mailing list.
18:54:21 <jono> jaywink, :-)
18:54:32 <janos_> notgary: probably not. on the other hand android is a lot easier, so i'm very much looking forward for that!
18:54:50 <notgary> If you have an iOS device then you could install a (read, my) development provisioning profile on the device which means you could run pre-release code signed by me
18:54:53 <jono> janos_, maybe one approach is to pass a device=ios string to the site and then it loads the relavant stylesheet
18:55:09 * n8k99 thinks a new accomplishment is installing ubuntu-accomplishments for android
18:56:23 <jono> ok, I think we are about out of time
18:56:28 <jono> thanks everyone for joining!
18:56:29 <n8k99> is it too much scope to think about being able to use this to register meeting other people from the community?
18:56:41 <jono> be sure to add #ubuntu-accomplishments to your IRC auto-join :-)
18:56:44 <jono> and join the mailing list
18:56:50 <jvrbanac> Thanks Jono! will do!
18:56:55 <jono> n8k99, that is out of scope :-)
18:56:58 <jono> thanks, folks!
18:57:00 <jono> #endmeeting