#title #ubuntu-meeting Meeting Meeting started by s-fox at 23:02:08 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-25-23.02.log.html . == Meeting summary == *FC meeting ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda (bodhi_zazen, 23:02:51) *Archiving forums *Close tutorial and tips and move to wiki ''ACTION:'' Staff to promote wiki effort (s-fox, 23:14:33) *Add new staff ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Forums/Membership (bodhi_zazen, 23:23:57) ''LINK:'' https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-forum-members (bodhi_zazen, 23:24:26) *Forums upgrade ''ACTION:'' Poke jcastro for news on the ETA on fix (s-fox, 23:27:48) *Community building ''LINK:'' http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/fridge/ (bodhi_zazen, 23:33:28) ''LINK:'' http://wordofgreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/I-love-when-a-plan-comes-together.gif (bodhi_zazen, 23:36:54) *Team Reports ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/April2012 (bodhi_zazen, 23:40:23) *Firefox / Ubiquity forum links ''ACTION:'' PM philinux for firefox update (s-fox, 23:50:38) *Staff selection process *Forums team ''LINK:'' http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=348 & subforum it seems (jacob, 23:54:57) *Fix a meeting time *New UFM *Add top level suport forum for ubuntu app developers ''LINK:'' http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php (bodhi_zazen, 00:15:41) ''LINK:'' http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=310 (bodhi_zazen, 00:15:52) ''LINK:'' http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=326 (bodhi_zazen, 00:24:27) ''ACTION:'' Sticky in new section outlining post criteria (s-fox, 00:31:55) ''ACTION:'' Post in Cafe about new section (s-fox, 00:32:32) ''ACTION:'' Post in PT about new section (s-fox, 00:32:48) *U+1 moving *Division of labour ''ACTION:'' Team report -> s-fox & cariboo907 (s-fox, 00:47:14) ''ACTION:'' Admin thread -> Iowan (s-fox, 00:47:55) ''ACTION:'' Mailing list -> bodhi_zazen (s-fox, 00:48:40) ''ACTION:'' s-fox to mail coffeecat some spam (s-fox, 00:49:25) ''ACTION:'' Effenberg0x0 to send fc draft and post on agenda (s-fox, 00:56:45) ''ACTION:'' cariboo907 to handle precise and create QQ Subforum (s-fox, 01:01:33) ''ACTION:'' New member message -> s-fox (s-fox, 01:02:31) Meeting ended at 01:04:41 UTC. == Votes == * Make concerted effort to discuss archiving out of date information with wider community For: 6 Against: 0 Abstained: 0 * Get UFM to nominate other UFM for staff poitions For: 6 Against: 0 Abstained: 0 * Remove old unused forum teams For: 6 Against: 0 Abstained: 0 * u+1 specific then move, if question is generic then leave in General / ABT For: 4 Against: 0 Abstained: 1 * Move u+1 so it is more visible For: 4 Against: 0 Abstained: 1 * cprofitt for UFM For: 4 Against: 0 Abstained: 1 * App developers forum to be created and placed under main suport categories For: 4 Against: 0 Abstained: 1 == Action items == * Staff to promote wiki effort * Poke jcastro for news on the ETA on fix * PM philinux for firefox update * Sticky in new section outlining post criteria * Post in Cafe about new section * Post in PT about new section * Team report -> s-fox & cariboo907 * Admin thread -> Iowan * Mailing list -> bodhi_zazen * s-fox to mail coffeecat some spam * Effenberg0x0 to send fc draft and post on agenda * cariboo907 to handle precise and create QQ Subforum * New member message -> s-fox == Action items, by person == * bodhi_zazen ** Mailing list -> bodhi_zazen * cariboo907 ** Team report -> s-fox & cariboo907 ** cariboo907 to handle precise and create QQ Subforum * coffeecat ** s-fox to mail coffeecat some spam * Effenberg0x0 ** Effenberg0x0 to send fc draft and post on agenda * Iowan ** Admin thread -> Iowan * s-fox ** Team report -> s-fox & cariboo907 ** s-fox to mail coffeecat some spam ** New member message -> s-fox * **UNASSIGNED** ** Staff to promote wiki effort ** Poke jcastro for news on the ETA on fix ** PM philinux for firefox update ** Sticky in new section outlining post criteria ** Post in Cafe about new section ** Post in PT about new section == People present (lines said) == * bodhi_zazen (251) * s-fox (198) * meetingology (90) * jacob (43) * Iowan (40) * cariboo907 (39) * mhall119 (30) * coffeecat (27) * Effenberg0x0 (25) * moergaes (19) * quackers (8) * uRock (8) * overdrank (7) * oldos2er (4) * pleia2 (2) * duanedesign (1) == Full Log == 23:02:08 #startmeeting 23:02:08 Meeting started Wed Apr 25 23:02:08 2012 UTC. The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 23:02:08 23:02:08 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 23:02:13 OK, anyone want to drive ? 23:02:31 I 23:02:35 [TOPIC] FC meeting 23:02:51 [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda 23:03:23 I would like to make a few opening comments if I may ,promise they will be short =) 23:03:32 Okay bodhi_zazen, go 23:03:37 First, thank you all for coming 23:03:51 we are trying to get input from across the community 23:04:15 during the month, please use FH&F , #ubuntuforums, etc to discuss issues with staff / FC 23:04:44 these meeting are (hopefully) for decisions, with minimal discussion, discussion should have already taken place 23:05:00 /end 23:05:21 Well said and very good point made. 23:05:46 Okay, first item on the agenda... 23:06:02 [TOPIC] Archiving forums 23:06:14 * bodhi_zazen hides 23:06:22 I think we forgot to discuss this topic 23:06:31 I know ;) 23:06:39 are this and the second topic the same? 23:06:42 We should make a proposal to the community, set some guidelines 23:06:51 no jacob 23:06:55 But the idea to archive out of date information is solid. 23:07:20 I agree on getting input from the wider community, just like we did for the tutorials 23:07:27 I suggest we make a concerted effort to discuss the topic over the next month 23:07:54 That sounds reasonable to me. 23:08:20 [VOTE] Make concerted effort to discuss archiving out of date information with wider community 23:08:20 Please vote on: Make concerted effort to discuss archiving out of date information with wider community 23:08:20 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 23:08:23 +1 23:08:23 +1 received from bodhi_zazen 23:08:26 +1 23:08:26 +1 received from cariboo907 23:08:28 +1 23:08:28 +1 received from s-fox 23:08:29 +1 23:08:29 +1 received from coffeecat 23:08:33 +1 23:08:33 +1 received from Iowan 23:08:55 +1 23:08:55 +1 received from jacob 23:08:58 [ENDVOTE] 23:08:58 Voting ended on: Make concerted effort to discuss archiving out of date information with wider community 23:08:58 Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 23:08:58 Motion carried 23:09:14 Bad jacob 23:09:16 ;) 23:09:18 :D 23:09:29 Okay, next item 23:09:49 [TOPIC] Close tutorial and tips and move to wiki 23:09:52 IMO closing T& T has gone fantastic 23:10:02 This appears to have started and the ball is rolling 23:10:04 I think there have been some (appropriate) concerns 23:10:08 but ... 23:10:26 we have connected people from forums to wiki and have interest from askubuntu 23:10:29 What are the main concerns ? 23:10:35 pixie has done outstanding work 23:10:46 people do not like change ;) 23:10:49 forestpiskie has been amazing 23:11:00 we need to encourage these efforts, and more important 23:11:09 engage the community to use and contribute to the wiki 23:11:12 I think the only real concern was the migration of tutorials, which seems to be going along smoothly 23:11:29 I seem to recall some sort of script helping with the markup 23:11:48 There was the concern if we closed the T&T, no one would contribute to wiki, and we would loose a valuable community asset 23:12:12 but, honestly, group effort on documentation is easier and it did not take long for the advantages to become obvious 23:12:24 I encourage all staff to encourage wiki as much as possible 23:12:29 I think the problem was the wiki was not very well advertised on the forums. if a link for T&T is made to the forums somehow, i think it'll be less of an issue. 23:12:45 By the looks of things it has evolved, and T&T section has been used for supporting specific wiki pages 23:12:46 s/forums/wiki/ 23:12:51 If people complain the page is out of date -> help encourage the community to maintain 23:12:59 +1 Jac 23:13:25 that is the plan s-fox , wiki is for documentation , T&T is to discuss documentation 23:13:34 there is an editor for editing wiki pages in the repositories called editmoin 23:13:37 should we add foo or bar to rootsudo ? 23:13:40 Okay, I am not really sure anything to vote on here. But well done to all and lets continue to ease the transtition 23:13:42 discussion -> change 23:14:05 no vote needed, just an update 23:14:13 and ask staff to promote the effort 23:14:33 [ACTION] Staff to promote wiki effort 23:14:33 * meetingology Staff to promote wiki effort 23:14:37 :) 23:14:45 If we get 10 people to edit 1 wiki page / month -> wiki will improve 23:15:04 Needs to be a sustained effort, not a burn out fast effort 23:15:12 Yes agreed 23:15:19 Lets move on 23:15:27 [TOPIC] Add new staff 23:15:39 OK, I'll say it 23:15:47 I think we should add 2-4 staff 23:16:13 I would like to try some sort of volunteer -> short list -> vote 23:16:22 I think we are coping, but we could do we a few more staffers. With a focus on asia / oz timezones 23:16:50 coping, yes, but too closed, IMO 23:16:59 even western north america, as at times I'm the only there 23:16:59 Anyone got any comments ? 23:17:02 we need to engage the community, not just "cope" 23:17:17 How much is need, versus rewarding active participants? 23:17:27 bodhi_zazen: can you explain "too closed"? 23:17:44 I really don't like the idea of volunteers 23:18:02 The staff is viewed as too closed, a select group selected by favoritism or cronyism 23:18:18 bodhi_zazen: thank you 23:18:21 people come and go, staff fall inactive, we need to train the next group 23:18:22 i'm not sure about volunteers either, but it might be worth a try. an experiment. 23:18:38 Volunteering was discussed in SCC. There were several objections. 23:18:58 Post criteria -> ask UFM to volunteer or nominate other UFM -> review candiates -> UFM vote 23:19:40 I think the major objection was that volunteers would not be reviewed 23:19:41 OMG - The entire forum council is here 23:19:43 was the criteria of requiring an active ubuntu membership to be one of them? 23:19:45 Hey overdrank 23:19:46 I could see UFM's nominate members for staff positions 23:19:58 oh wait, no ai 23:19:59 Hello all 23:20:02 nomination works for me 23:20:17 We need to "test the waters" 23:20:27 +1 to that 23:20:38 If we want to continue with the current staff selection, that is fine 23:20:44 Okay, well we are only looking to add a couple new staff so it is a good test to iron out the process 23:20:55 We need to be able to say , we tried .... and had ... problem ;) 23:21:02 Or , perhaps it will be better 23:21:03 it's worth a shot if nothing else 23:21:07 [VOTE] Get UFM to nominate other UFM for staff poitions 23:21:07 Please vote on: Get UFM to nominate other UFM for staff poitions 23:21:07 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 23:21:10 positions 23:21:16 +1 23:21:16 +1 received from cariboo907 23:21:19 and perhaps encourage UFM -> join u+1 or wiki team 23:21:20 positions 23:21:24 +1 23:21:24 +1 received from bodhi_zazen 23:21:27 +1 23:21:27 +1 received from s-fox 23:21:28 +1 23:21:28 +1 received from Iowan 23:21:29 +1 23:21:29 +1 received from overdrank 23:21:37 +1 23:21:37 +1 received from s-fox 23:21:44 Gah 23:22:00 CLarification please. 23:22:01 I am suggesting we need to encourage the Ubuntu forums community to participate and contribute beyond the forums 23:22:15 Silly tablet scroll issue >.< 23:22:21 Forums is the entry, identify the good, the bad, and the ugly -> get them involved =) 23:22:37 go coffeecat 23:23:03 I haven't voted yet. "UFM to nominate OTHER UFM"?? 23:23:13 Ubuntu Forums Members 23:23:19 Ubuntu forum members UFM 23:23:23 coffeecat for staff positions 23:23:25 No - I know what UFM are . OTHER?? 23:23:57 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Forums/Membership 23:24:00 UFM nominate from the list of UFMs 23:24:01 forum members nominate other forum members 23:24:12 for staff positions 23:24:13 Yes - OTHER - not themselves? 23:24:19 for staff positions 23:24:26 https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-forum-members 23:24:29 no, not themselves 23:24:34 s-fox, thanks 23:24:40 non ufm == ubuntu community 23:24:50 ubuntu forums community 23:25:00 coffeecat what is your vote ? 23:25:17 That's not what I was asking. s.fox has clarified. 23:25:17 (abstain is allowed) 23:25:19 +1 23:25:19 +1 received from coffeecat 23:25:27 [ENDVOTE] 23:25:27 Voting ended on: Get UFM to nominate other UFM for staff poitions 23:25:27 Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 23:25:27 Motion carried 23:25:30 obstain = 0 23:25:38 +1/0/-1 23:25:43 Okay, next item.... 23:26:01 [TOPIC] Forums upgrade 23:26:10 I have an update on this 23:26:15 yea! 23:26:21 :) 23:26:24 SSO is supposed to be fixed today 23:26:31 good to hear! 23:27:02 castro informs me that the drives have been sourced but the SSO (which was fixed) is now broken again 23:27:14 He was going to get back to me with an eta on the fix 23:27:28 I know this is bad news, but it is still an update. 23:27:48 [ACTION] Poke jcastro for news on the ETA on fix 23:27:48 * meetingology Poke jcastro for news on the ETA on fix 23:27:53 :) 23:28:29 Any comments before moving on? 23:29:42 I guess now 23:29:43 not 23:29:47 Next topic 23:29:54 [TOPIC] Community building 23:29:56 community building is going very well, but will never going to be on autopilot 23:30:03 As staff, you are leaders 23:30:15 I encourage you to get involved, there are tons of projects 23:30:27 you do not have to to them, just know they are there 23:30:40 Example - xubuntu could have used some help this release ... 23:30:45 U+1 23:30:48 wiki efforts 23:30:57 join #ubuntuforums and #ubuntu-community-team 23:31:05 If you like forums, that is fine 23:31:14 be active in FH&F 23:31:34 I don't know if this comes under community building, but kansasnoob has been diagnosed with dementia 23:31:34 be [s]active[/s] friendly in café and community games 23:32:16 If you are too busy to get active, fine, the would fall under need more staff ;) 23:32:46 * jacob shuffles about 23:32:47 Just be aware , we are reaching critical mass where we really can integrate with, and contribute to the Ubuntu community 23:32:56 Starting this month I am going to be writing a monthly news update kind of thing for the wider community to view on planet ubuntu 23:33:24 but agreed, and I know I sound hypocritical, but being active on staff is what helps keep a community going 23:33:28 http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/fridge/ 23:34:27 You do not need a google account to view the fridge calander 23:34:27 bodhi_zazen ? 23:34:42 Oh I see, never mind 23:34:49 fridge calendar = major community discussions / meetings 23:34:56 * s-fox nods 23:35:29 Otherwise, see my update to the staff in scc 23:35:56 Staff only : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1953124 23:35:58 Oh, incase you missed it I added links to the forum irc channel in the quicklinks bar in the site menu 23:36:38 I know, IRC is new, even frightening at first, but, after a while you will be in 10 channels 23:36:53 lol 23:36:54 http://wordofgreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/I-love-when-a-plan-comes-together.gif 23:37:03 (I struggle with 2) 23:37:12 and idle in 9 ;) 23:37:18 I can manage 5 :) 23:37:20 Don't worry, everyone is like that 23:37:26 if you need help ask 23:37:36 Really? :) 23:37:43 If you irc via issri in screen 24/7 - seek a therapist 23:37:53 lol 23:37:53 irssi , lol 23:38:02 (via IRS?) 23:38:03 No 23:38:05 bodhi_zazen: hah. i don't need a therapist, i use weechat. 23:38:05 :) 23:38:12 (IRC) 23:38:18 I would like to move on.... 23:38:19 bodhi_zazen: i resemble that remark :) 23:38:28 * bodhi_zazen pleads the 5th 23:38:55 [TOPIC] Team Reports 23:39:01 Hello ubottu 23:39:03 uRock 23:39:14 * bodhi_zazen hides 10 fedora channels, gentoo, and linux-libre channels, not to mention #ubuntu-montana and a few -team, oh and lxc ... 23:39:24 hello s-fox 23:39:39 Team reports are greatly appreciated by the community, and the look nice 23:39:52 Only thing is, make sure they get on the community monthly report 23:39:52 What did I mess up last month? ;) 23:39:58 Well done to everyone for getting them back on track 23:40:21 Few minor issues with the ones that had been done 23:40:23 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/April2012 23:40:40 1 - Missing items that were discussed in the meetings 23:40:43 We should be on the community team report automatically 23:41:04 We are right under the Community Council 23:41:05 2 - Naming convention is very important, other pages link to CURRENT MONTH 23:41:18 ^ bodhi_zazen 23:41:29 :( Thought I verified that it was there... 23:41:55 It's OK Iowan , this is why I am trying to get FC members up to speed =) 23:42:07 Needs to be there by end of month 23:42:14 my tranny keeps slipping... 23:42:23 Iowan Don't be sad, something had to be said or nothing is learned =) 23:42:51 I never can recall the syntax, so, add comments to the templates on what to do 23:43:00 Comments start with two ## 23:43:29 Who is willing to try the monthly report this month ? 23:43:39 Heck, two of you could learn together 23:43:43 bodhi_zazen i am going to do division of labour at the end 23:43:46 * cariboo907 will 23:43:55 OK, sorry s-fox 23:44:09 np 23:44:10 next topic ? 23:44:15 yep 23:44:38 Leave the agenda in place, agenda items = bullet points for team report 23:44:40 [TOPIC] Firefox / Ubiquity forum links 23:45:00 I have an update on ubiquity side of things 23:45:07 This one is short, if you want them fixed, file a bug report on LP with code 23:45:26 we missed 12.04, but if we submit decent code it will be considered for 12.10 23:45:49 then accept the decision of the community who reviews the request 23:45:54 No more WWIII 23:45:58 =) 23:46:11 From what I gather the slide was rewritten and askubuntu was removed. That wasn't what we were after. I have written a html slide and sent code to bodsda. i need to poke him again 23:46:24 \o/ 23:46:39 You have about 3 months s-fox 23:47:14 philinux was pushing the firefox bookmarks, and has posted a revised bookmark file 23:47:46 I recall he was having issues getting the maintainers to look at the revised file, which is a bit sad. 23:47:56 Aye, but after the 12.04 deadline, otherwise bookmarks looked good 23:48:07 Having UF in the bookmarks would be great 23:48:12 Probably need to submit for 12.10 23:48:37 we were late, and to be honest, they have better things to do with the impending release of 12.04 23:48:43 target 12.10 release 23:48:46 Okay, that is me done on updates. Perhaps we should ask philinux for an update 23:48:56 PM ? 23:49:05 Yep :) 23:49:22 Any other comments ? 23:49:26 isn't he still off fishing in Scotland? 23:49:58 Oh yes, that is right 23:50:38 [ACTION] PM philinux for firefox update 23:50:38 * meetingology PM philinux for firefox update 23:50:53 [TOPIC] Staff selection process 23:51:02 We discussed staff selection, entire staff feels candidates need to be reviewed, and when we have a short list of UFM -> UFM vote , honestly current staff is the largest single voting block, so it is not the compete loss of control we might fear 23:51:10 I think we covered this earlier with adding new staff 23:51:22 I have no further comment 23:51:26 Next topic? 23:51:40 It has been extensively discussed b4 now 23:51:45 action on this one s-fox 23:51:48 vote ? 23:51:58 We already voted on it 23:52:11 OK with me , any objections ? 23:52:12 [TOPIC] Forums team 23:52:30 This one is not my topic (surprise) 23:52:40 lol 23:52:56 Anyone want to summarize this ? 23:53:13 I think we should kill off the teams and use #ubuntuforums 23:53:21 I think we should nuke the entire collection of forums teams, honestly. Even if it means re-making some that are desired to keep. 23:53:34 If enough people want to start some project, have them make a proposal 23:53:37 aye 23:53:46 other than that, my thoughts are in the thread 23:53:52 probably the cleanest way 23:53:59 Spring cleaning on old teams 23:54:05 i don't believe any of the six have seen any activity 23:54:15 Anyone got anything to add before the vote? 23:54:23 also the forums attached to some of those 23:54:24 Only one is "active", and I use the term loosly 23:54:34 which one BT? 23:54:34 T&T has a T&TT forum that is dead 23:54:38 yea 23:54:38 The BT bodhi_zazend ? 23:54:57 http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=348 & subforum it seems 23:54:58 zmg, it's alive 23:55:07 Okay, vote time 23:55:08 I asked duanedesign to lead the BT 23:55:30 [VOTE] Remove old unused forum teams 23:55:30 Please vote on: Remove old unused forum teams 23:55:30 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 23:55:34 It is sort of detached from forums at the moment 23:55:35 +1 23:55:35 +1 received from bodhi_zazen 23:55:37 +1 23:55:37 +1 received from s-fox 23:55:40 +1 23:55:40 +1 received from overdrank 23:55:41 +1 23:55:41 +1 received from coffeecat 23:55:46 +1 23:55:46 +1 received from cariboo907 23:55:56 +1 (all teams?) 23:55:56 +1 (all teams?) received from Iowan 23:56:02 lol 23:56:06 hah. 23:56:11 just the unused ones Iowan 23:56:20 same thing s-fox 23:56:28 hah 23:56:37 doh 23:56:49 [ENDVOTE] 23:56:49 Voting ended on: Remove old unused forum teams 23:56:49 Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 23:56:49 Motion carried 23:56:57 \o/ 23:57:28 Do we need to post a "warning" that they are going? 23:57:29 I think it would be polite to email the team leader if we close the subforums 23:57:29 \~/ 23:57:44 Iowan: i doubt anyone would notice without one for quite some time. :P 23:57:46 No one reads the [s]warnings[/s] stickies Iowan 23:57:52 \m/ 23:57:58 Direct email bodhi_zazen 23:58:21 s-fox: there's only one subforum that I can see 23:58:25 My apologies but I have to excuse myself 23:58:26 I'm sorry , that email has been disconnected ... 23:58:27 well scraatch that 23:58:33 See you overdrank 23:58:38 thanks overd 23:58:40 thanks for coming 23:59:03 bodhi_zazen we should at least try 23:59:04 next topic, coming up on the 60 minute mark 23:59:07 bounce or not 23:59:11 OK s-fox 23:59:34 [TOPIC] Fix a meeting time 23:59:48 I think the only issue with this time is AI :/ 23:59:49 This time seems to work, 3rd Wed of the month ? 00:00:12 works for me :) 00:00:18 Works for me 00:00:19 Good here... 00:00:28 +1 00:00:45 Time= now +/- 3 hours 00:01:10 Again, my worry is for AI 00:01:26 Agreed - this will always be bad for AI 00:01:37 Why not cycle times every meeting? you'll get a different selection of FC every time 00:02:06 because, no time that is good for AI works for anyone else 00:02:20 that's... tricky. 00:02:45 I think we should discuss this further, perhaps vote later 00:02:58 so when we look at avability, say there are 4,5,or 6 members available as time foo and bar and another_time 00:03:05 It is always AI missing 00:03:28 and when you look at AI times, only 1 or 2 members at most are available 00:03:44 so , no matter what, we are going to need to learn to communicate outside of FC meetings 00:03:48 It is difficult 00:03:59 +1 to communication 00:04:19 Okay, next topic 00:04:34 [TOPIC] New UFM 00:05:04 Only one this month, and he is already an ubuntu member.... 00:05:30 which i still don't understand the point but anyway 00:05:30 Is there anyone who does not know cprofitt ? 00:05:34 I'm confused - do I also need to re-apply via forums? 00:05:50 Iowan: because we have 2 categories 00:06:03 Iowan: I think he just want to have a more formal forum membership. 00:06:05 Ubuntu members -> they all get the little user benefits 00:06:10 and Ubuntu Forums Members 00:06:40 Only Ubuntu members active on the forums (UFM) are eligible for staff and to vote 00:07:04 Does this mean I need to reapply? 00:07:13 so, if they go or have gone through an alternate membership board, they need to apply for UFM 00:07:17 I did not get my membership for forums activites 00:07:18 I would say so s-fox 00:07:27 ditto 00:07:38 Does cprofitt just want to become a UFM so that he is eligible to become a staff member 00:07:42 That is the best way to identify UM active on the fourms 00:07:54 no cariboo907 , he wants to vote for staff 00:08:38 I do not think it is the general policy of Ubuntu Team, nor do I think we want, all UM to vote for ubuntu forums elections 00:08:51 Okay, that I understand 00:09:02 As an ubuntu member, if you are not active on IRC, you do not get asked to vote for ubuntu irc board 00:09:07 etc 00:09:20 I anticipate a small # of these applications 00:09:21 [VOTE] cprofitt for UFM 00:09:21 Please vote on: cprofitt for UFM 00:09:21 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 00:09:27 +1 00:09:27 +1 received from bodhi_zazen 00:09:31 +0 00:09:31 +0 received from cariboo907 00:09:32 +1 00:09:32 +1 received from coffeecat 00:09:33 +11 00:09:33 +11 received from s-fox 00:09:49 +1 00:09:49 +1 received from Iowan 00:09:55 Nice vote by me ;) 00:10:19 (vote -10 to balance?) 00:10:25 [ENDVOTE] 00:10:25 Voting ended on: cprofitt for UFM 00:10:25 Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1 00:10:25 Motion carried 00:10:58 mhall119 ping ? 00:11:06 good to see another CC member getting more involved with forums (we miss technoviking!) 00:11:29 'lo pleia2 00:11:55 sorry, don't mean to interrupt meeting :) 00:12:19 no bother, glad to have you 00:12:31 mhall119 added an item to the agenda wanting to add a programming related forum to the main page rather than under the programming section. i am not sure on the reasoning and generally think it is unorganised if we do that 00:12:34 s-fox: here 00:12:42 Hey mhall119 :) 00:12:46 mostly 00:13:00 I say, add the forum, we can remove it if it is unused 00:13:10 [TOPIC] Add top level suport forum for ubuntu app developers 00:13:42 mhall119 can you explain your idea please? 00:14:02 so one of our big goals in the 12.10 cycle is to build a community of independent application developers 00:14:32 and one thing that almost every other developer.*.* website offers app devs is a forum 00:14:38 mhall119: can this be a subsection of the ubuntu+1 forums ? 00:14:43 o/ 00:14:45 not just for technical/programming support either 00:14:59 bodhi_zazen: no, it'll be a permanent fixture 00:15:11 duanedesign: if it on topic, speak, otherwise wait for open floor 00:15:24 so questions and support will range from programming to packaging, pricing, promotion, collaboration, etc 00:15:24 Where would you propose we add it ? 00:15:41 http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php 00:15:52 http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=310 00:15:59 bodhi_zazen: I was hoping to get it in the "Main Support Categories" area 00:16:08 as top-level as possible 00:17:18 we'll link to it from developer.ubuntu.com/community 00:17:25 I have someone who wants to learn to package the linux-libre kernel into a ppa (they make .deb now, but want to learn better) 00:17:32 as one of the official places for app developers to get support and meet other app developers 00:17:37 would they use the forums for that sort of activity ? 00:17:43 learning to package ? 00:17:43 I think it sounds like a reasonable idea; it could attract a healthy developer community, and is no worse than any of the partner forums under main support ;) 00:17:51 bodhi_zazen: no, that's ubuntu development, not app development 00:18:10 we're targeting people who make, say, Angry Birds, and wants to make a native Ubuntu version 00:18:35 but programming side ? 00:18:35 they don't care about kernels or debian packaging with lint --pedantic or all that 00:18:36 mhall119 we get people building applications in that section 00:18:41 what about packaging ? 00:18:45 bodhi_zazen: programming will be part of it, but not all of it 00:18:50 packaging is a frequent FAQ 00:18:59 +1 bodhi_zazen 00:19:01 it'll also be pricing, promotion, etc 00:19:18 makes sense to me, considering the "app" model ubuntu is moving towards. consolidating things might be useful. 00:19:28 (as much as i despise the word "app") 00:20:02 Iowan cariboo907 coffeecat thoughts? 00:20:21 Thinking... 00:20:37 I don't really want to send them all over the forums, I'd rather give them one place specifically for them 00:20:38 I think it's a good idea 00:21:02 +1 mhall119 00:21:02 echo that 00:21:09 just like they expect from other developer portals 00:21:35 Probably worth a try - as mentioned about partner subforums 00:21:53 o/ 00:22:06 If it is on topic Effenberg0x0 speak up 00:22:07 Effenberg0x0 go :) 00:22:12 Apps need testers. I see a good opportunity for integration there 00:22:38 oh, for added clarification, this will be mainly targetting people who will be submitting apps through MyApps and the ARB, not to Universe 00:22:41 this almost seems to merit an additional section, even. but a single forum would be good to start with. 00:23:29 My 2c are to make this work as best we can 00:23:43 I like Effenberg0x0's point. 00:24:14 QA won't test 3rd parts. Ubuntu+1/U+1 Team can help. Good opportunity for knowledge exchange. 00:24:22 mhall119: can you or someone help develop the description you envision ? 00:24:27 http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=326 00:24:32 bodhi_zazen: sure, dpm and I can do that 00:24:35 "The perfect place to post for your Ubuntu support if you are new to Linux." 00:24:51 We can put it under main for visibility 00:25:05 Okay, lets vote. 00:25:07 Horse before cart: Loco forum mods? 00:25:10 as it evolved , see if it belongs there or if it should be moved to a development section 00:25:34 mhall119: yes, any help with moderating this section ? 00:25:58 bodhi_zazen: I'd be happy to, dpm will too I'm sure, and we can get he ARB to help too 00:26:03 These sorts of discussions can get , err, interesting 00:26:04 [VOTE] App developers forum to be created and placed under main suport categories 00:26:04 Please vote on: App developers forum to be created and placed under main suport categories 00:26:04 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 00:26:11 someone to help set the tone would be great 00:26:15 +1 00:26:15 +1 received from cariboo907 00:26:16 staff can help 00:26:18 +1 00:26:18 +1 received from bodhi_zazen 00:26:18 +1 00:26:18 +1 received from coffeecat 00:26:22 +1 00:26:22 +1 received from Iowan 00:26:26 with spam and stuff 00:26:26 bodhi_zazen: there's enough stake holders, I'm sure we can find a good group of mods 00:26:27 +0 00:26:27 +0 received from s-fox 00:26:39 implicit plus-one ;) 00:26:40 I think that would be best 00:26:40 [ENDVOTE] 00:26:40 Voting ended on: App developers forum to be created and placed under main suport categories 00:26:40 Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1 00:26:40 Motion carried 00:27:03 you guys rock! thanks so much for addressing this so quickly 00:27:21 Okay, mhall119 if you could email / irc the fc with the description we will do the rest :) 00:27:26 Before we move on. Something for mhall119 and all to think about... 00:27:36 s-fox: what email? 00:28:03 mhall119 the fc mailing list 00:28:23 mhall119: for future reference : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncil 00:28:28 thanks 00:28:30 ubuntu-forums-council@lists.ubuntu.com 00:29:00 mhall119, mentioned "pricing and promotion" With app developers who are new members. Have to give them guidelines so they are not mistaken for spammers. 00:29:23 +1 on spam issue 00:29:43 Pricing always raises a red flag... 00:29:48 coffeecat: yeah, I didn't mean "promote your app on the forums", I meant "ask other app devs what they did for promotion, what work and what didn't, etc" 00:30:07 As do links to products off ubuntu web pages from members with < 10-15 posts 00:30:14 mhall119, sure. But some might get it wrong! :) 00:30:22 We should make an announcement to the forum population, otherwise we are going to get buried in reports 00:30:37 Part of setting up the forums 00:30:39 sticky in neew forum 00:30:46 s-fox: we will also likely announce it on the developer portal blog 00:30:58 develop description, post guidelines as a sticky 00:31:12 mhall119 a lot of the forum users are not devs =) 00:31:33 s-fox: right, I was just mentioning it 00:31:48 Yea, we chased the dev out with pitchforks and torches =) 00:31:55 [ACTION] Sticky in new section outlining post criteria 00:31:55 * meetingology Sticky in new section outlining post criteria 00:32:32 [ACTION] Post in Cafe about new section 00:32:32 * meetingology Post in Cafe about new section 00:32:39 any other comments ? 00:32:48 [ACTION] Post in PT about new section 00:32:48 * meetingology Post in PT about new section 00:33:05 Nothing from me 00:33:12 Anyone else? 00:33:13 nothing from here 00:33:27 Nothing more here 00:33:48 [TOPIC] U+1 moving 00:33:58 thanks again, I'll get with dpm tomorrow to write up that description and some guidelines from our side, then you guys can add whatever guidelines you think will be needed 00:34:01 moergaes added this item 00:34:06 Yes 00:34:11 moergaes you have the floor =) 00:34:16 Thanks. 00:34:19 We have talked somewhat about this in the staff forum 00:34:25 but I would like to hear if we have an agreement / decision. 00:34:34 Ubuntu+1 is different from all other fora 00:34:41 as the purpose is not support, but software development 00:34:50 (particularly testing and bug reporting). 00:35:10 Therefore support request should not go there IMHO. 00:35:17 My suggestion: 00:35:21 I think the point is moot, as Precise comes out tomorrow, and there will be a new QQ subforum, 00:35:39 This is meant for U+1 in general 00:35:45 not only this cycle. 00:35:55 cariboo907 please wait until moergaes is done. :) 00:36:24 I suggest that all threads in U+1 should serve a purpose regarding software development 00:36:28 OK :( 00:36:34 else they should be moved (or stay) somewhere else 00:36:40 mostly Absolute Beginner Talk. 00:36:46 o/ 00:36:49 Comments? 00:37:00 where should U+1 support go? 00:37:18 o/ 00:37:18 agreed. but when do we decide to stop moving threads *in* and start moving them *out* into general areas? 2 weeks before release? beta 2? 00:37:40 go Effenberg0x0 00:37:43 o/ 00:37:48 Mark created Development release USERS (not testers) when he did this: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/938, which was foralized here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-plusonemaint-priorities 00:37:48 Therefore, users exist, users need support. And we benefit from converting support requests into new testers. 00:37:57 Maybe have two sub-sections, one for devs and another for support? 00:38:08 i like that idea uRock 00:38:21 +1 uRock 00:38:22 U+1 forum always seemed a bit cluttered 00:38:33 u+1 have grown 00:38:37 We have very few developers in that section, they mainly answer support questions 00:38:42 quackers: go 00:38:57 also, I also think that U+1 support/development should be moved up a little bit. it's quite hidden, and many threads moved there are made by those who didn't see it 00:39:08 where should testers of the current development release ask for support, if not in U + 1 00:39:11 ? 00:39:11 could move it under general ... 00:39:33 isn't that thinning an already limited supply of help? 00:39:34 Let me try to answer that quackers , if I may ... 00:39:45 we'd be flooded with reports if they do not have their own section 00:40:04 There are no absolutes, people (including staff) need to use judgement 00:40:13 This release (QQ) is about quality. We need more common users testing the Development Release. I ask you to consider that cautiously in any change we do to the current structure. 00:40:17 Lets say a user needs support on u+1 ... 00:40:39 Is is a question that is very general - how do I install software ? 00:40:52 If it is general enough , leave it in ABT or GH or wherever 00:40:55 not usually 00:41:00 Or is it specific to U+1 00:41:07 In that case, it needs to be moved 00:41:14 doesn't that really echo current policy? :) 00:41:18 often specific imo 00:41:21 This last release cycle was NOT typical 00:41:28 it was MUCH MUCH more stable 00:41:38 wait until X fails on u+1 00:41:42 We usually make some suggestions, and help the new user along, as long as the question is concerneing the development release 00:41:54 so u+1 specific support / development -> u+1 00:42:02 there will always be judgement involved 00:42:05 that's my thought 00:42:12 for me, yes 00:42:40 Does the support question pertain to development , development specific problems ? 00:42:47 itconcentrates users 00:42:51 Okay, I see a few people in agreement on an idea. Time to vote 00:42:53 Or is it general enough to remain in ABT ? 00:43:10 If in doubt -> move to u+1 00:43:13 One problem is the "naive" user who has no intention of testing, install an alpha or beta without knowing what they are and needs help. It dilutes the U+1 forum. 00:43:18 until a stable beta ? 00:43:28 coffeecat: Exactly 00:43:31 +1 coffeecat 00:43:34 that was my point. 00:44:03 But again, this release cycle was more stable then average 00:44:10 [VOTE] u+1 specific then move, if question is generic then leave in General / ABT 00:44:10 Please vote on: u+1 specific then move, if question is generic then leave in General / ABT 00:44:10 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 00:44:15 +1 00:44:15 +1 received from bodhi_zazen 00:44:23 +1 00:44:23 +1 received from cariboo907 00:44:24 +1 00:44:24 +1 received from coffeecat 00:44:25 +1 00:44:25 +1 received from s-fox 00:44:34 Iowan ? 00:44:41 +0 00:44:41 +0 received from Iowan 00:44:53 [ENDVOTE] 00:44:53 Voting ended on: u+1 specific then move, if question is generic then leave in General / ABT 00:44:53 Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1 00:44:53 Motion carried 00:45:03 Great =) 00:45:07 Open floor ? 00:45:13 Thanks! 00:45:13 o/ May I? (Two quick remarks, no need to discuss it in-depth now, just a proposal for you to consider) 00:45:17 Last item 00:45:17 o/ 00:45:32 bodhi_zazen after the division of labour you will have the floor 00:45:37 WHo is going to move the Precise sub-forum to the archove 00:45:39 Oops 00:45:43 naw, give it to Effenberg0x0 first 00:45:45 archive 00:45:51 bodhi_zazen okay 00:45:56 +1 00:46:16 [TOPIC] Division of labour 00:46:18 you all see my tl;dr every day 00:46:37 Who wants the team report this month? 00:46:48 (pass) 00:47:11 * cariboo907 will 00:47:14 [ACTION] Team report -> s-fox & cariboo907 00:47:14 * meetingology Team report -> s-fox & cariboo907 00:47:15 cariboo907: volunteered earlier 00:47:35 who wants the admin thread ? 00:47:51 I'll help! 00:47:55 o/ 00:47:55 [ACTION] Admin thread -> Iowan 00:47:55 * meetingology Admin thread -> Iowan 00:48:01 doh - 00:48:17 Who wants to swat trolls on the mailing list? 00:48:25 o/ 00:48:27 and spam 00:48:36 * coffeecat is game for some troll swatting. 00:48:40 [ACTION] Mailing list -> bodhi_zazen 00:48:40 * meetingology Mailing list -> bodhi_zazen 00:48:40 And spam!!!! 00:48:49 unless you have a better task for me oh great one (s-fox) 00:49:25 [ACTION] s-fox to mail coffeecat some spam 00:49:25 * meetingology s-fox to mail coffeecat some spam 00:49:30 lol 00:49:38 I think that is it 00:49:46 Effenberg0x0 has the floor 00:49:49 Ban reversal candidates? 00:49:54 blog.bodhizazen.net | coffeecat@ubuntu.com 00:50:07 There are none Iowan 00:50:21 May I? 00:50:26 yes 00:50:26 No ban reversal candidates added themselves to the agenda, none showed up 00:50:29 Thanks, I have two items for you to consider. We can discuss both in the future as we're short on time now. 00:50:40 #1 (The small one): This cycle is about quality. We need more common users testing the Dev. Release. If possible, I'd like Ubuntu+1 to move up a little in the forum sections. It's a little hidden, and that is not compatible to current Ubuntu strategy. 00:50:49 don't worry, we're only 55 mins over our allocation of an hour 00:50:51 Effenberg0x0: np, in the future = add them to agenda ;) 00:51:03 Ok bodhi_zazen 00:51:07 And #2 00:51:09 +1 Effenberg0x0 00:51:19 +1 to moving it to main =) 00:51:20 another +1 00:51:33 +1 from me 00:51:42 +1 from me too 00:51:58 [VOTE] Move u+1 so it is more visible 00:51:58 Please vote on: Move u+1 so it is more visible 00:51:58 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 00:52:03 +1 00:52:03 +1 received from bodhi_zazen 00:52:05 +1 00:52:05 +1 received from cariboo907 00:52:07 +0 00:52:07 +0 received from Iowan 00:52:07 +1 00:52:07 +1 received from coffeecat 00:52:12 +1 00:52:12 +1 received from s-fox 00:52:32 (plus one) 00:52:36 wow, great, huge support! Thanks guys! Let me paste text for the next request. 00:52:44 [ENDVOTE] 00:52:44 Voting ended on: Move u+1 so it is more visible 00:52:44 Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1 00:52:44 Motion carried 00:53:04 #2 (The big one): UF � U+1Team partnership. The U+1 Team is independent from QA and any other structure, reporting only to CC. But it is strongly related to UF (and UF's Ubuntu+1 sub-forum). Initially, most of our members came from UF, including some UF staff and Ubuntu members via Forums. We even have 2 UF Council members in our team. I personally see UF as the most successful endeavor of Ubuntu in on-line communities. 00:53:04 We need to work together. U+1 team was designed to work via partnerships, with defined term lengths, goals, tasks, limited scope, metrics. In this sense, I'd like to propose such a partnership between U+1 and UF. 00:53:04 UF can benefit from having some of it's staff involved in learning in testing, QA and technical work � a glimpse of a broader Ubuntu universe. UF can also recruit staff and candidates to Members from U+1 (likely technical and committed to Ubuntu). 00:53:07 U+1 Team can benefit from having more Ubuntu-commited members in testing (and possibly DOC and other activities) and strong recruitment to testing via Forums. Forums are also (IMO) an amazing thermometer of Ubuntu software quality. 00:53:13 We can work to draft a scope for such partnership together and define a term-length of one development cycle as a trial. I can have a draft for your appreciation in a week or so. 00:53:34 whew 00:54:04 +1 on reviewing a draft 00:54:33 The idea really needs some discussion 00:54:56 discussion would be great, plan sounds solid 00:55:06 continue to build on success 00:55:23 I think it's a win-win. For UF and U+1 Team. We just need to set details. 00:55:52 o/ 00:55:56 Effenberg0x0 could you prepare the draft and get it to a the FC? 00:56:14 s-fox, sure. Gie a couple days and I'll send it to FC mail, ok? 00:56:15 Effenberg0x0: and add an item to FC agenda 00:56:29 bodhi_zazen, Ok, will do 00:56:32 Gotta go. It's been nice... 8) 00:56:34 Unresolved items -> carry over 00:56:45 [ACTION] Effenberg0x0 to send fc draft and post on agenda 00:56:45 * meetingology Effenberg0x0 to send fc draft and post on agenda 00:57:02 bodhi_zazen floor is yours 00:57:12 Just a few short comments on #ubuntuforums 00:57:33 The channel is intended to be a voice for the community and a place for staff to interact 00:57:43 It seems to be working well 00:58:14 feel free to participate, including steering the occasional discussion of items on the FC agenda 00:58:29 encourage discussion of community issues 00:58:50 as staff, you are the facilitators 00:59:20 We simply get more done, and have more community support for change if we have the discussion with the community 00:59:24 /end 00:59:37 o/ 00:59:46 cariboo907 go 00:59:48 go cariboo907 00:59:59 Who is going to move the Precise sub-forum to the archive, and create a new one for QQ 01:00:16 are you volunteering cariboo907 ? 01:00:52 I guess I am, it will just be a bit later this time around, 01:01:11 Is archiving it really needed? Considering many bugs and workarounds are persistent? 01:01:12 OK, if you need help, let us know 01:01:27 not archiving, closing (I assume) 01:01:33 [ACTION] cariboo907 to handle precise and create QQ Subforum 01:01:33 * meetingology cariboo907 to handle precise and create QQ Subforum 01:01:46 Okay, anything else? 01:01:49 New member message? 01:02:04 Oh yes, can i do it this month? 01:02:10 \o/ 01:02:11 +1 01:02:16 +1 01:02:31 [ACTION] New member message -> s-fox 01:02:31 * meetingology New member message -> s-fox 01:02:47 s-fox, I;m so glad! :) 01:03:03 Anything else? not like we're running late or anything 01:03:09 ;) 01:03:19 done here... 01:03:25 that's it for me, I'm getting hungry :) 01:03:37 i have work in 4 hours and yet to sleep 01:03:43 getting long in the tooth 01:03:45 eeewww 01:03:59 it's a comfortable 9pm here :3 01:04:08 Thanks for now. Good night, everybody. 01:04:12 east coast! 01:04:14 it's only 18:00 here 01:04:25 on the Pacific coast 01:04:31 okay 01:04:33 2 in the morning here. :( 01:04:35 good meeting all, night 01:04:41 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)