#title #ubuntu-meeting Meeting Meeting started by czajkowski at 17:03:23 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-04-05-17.03.log.html . == Meeting summary == ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda (czajkowski, 17:03:41) *Bug 1 ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bug1 (czajkowski, 17:04:50) ''LINK:'' http://paste.ubuntu.com/916280/ (pleia2, 17:10:01) *Asia/Oceania Regional Membership Board Catch up *move over teams page ''ACTION:'' czajkowski to update the /teams page with working draft (czajkowski, 17:21:38) *merged code of conduct 2.0 ''LINK:'' http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/changes (sabdfl, 17:24:30) ''LINK:'' http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/view/head:/MergedCodeOfConduct.txt is the actual changed document (dholbach, 17:27:19) Meeting ended at 17:50:39 UTC. == Votes == == Action items == * czajkowski to update the /teams page with working draft == Action items, by person == * czajkowski ** czajkowski to update the /teams page with working draft == People present (lines said) == * sabdfl (61) * czajkowski (39) * dholbach (23) * dpic (21) * pleia2 (10) * beuno (8) * ubottu (5) * meetingology (4) * mog (3) * bkerensa (1) == Full Log == 17:03:23 #startmeeting 17:03:23 Meeting started Thu Apr 5 17:03:23 2012 UTC. The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 17:03:23 17:03:23 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 17:03:31 aloha and welcome to the CC meeting 17:03:41 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda 17:03:43 todays agenda 17:04:03 dpic: ping 17:04:12 o/ 17:04:21 hi 17:04:44 #topic Bug 1 17:04:50 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bug1 17:05:02 dpic: care to talk to us regarding your agenda item? 17:05:18 So, bug #1 is a bit vague because it is specific to microsoft. that means apple could solve it for us 17:05:22 Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 17:05:28 i don't think that was the intention 17:05:39 so i drafted this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bug1 17:05:55 dpic, or that ubuntu could solve the problem via equally non-free software 17:06:00 it cites the ubuntu philosophy and commitment to making floss available 17:07:41 that's interesting 17:07:49 i don't think ubuntu would be completely proprietary ever, but it does make sense to shift the conversation to proprietary software and away from windows 17:08:27 because if Apple suddenly took over the world, we would have less free software but bug #1 would technically be solved 17:08:31 Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 17:08:59 ok, i'll refer to it as "the bug" or "#1" from now on to avoid the bot haha 17:09:14 dpic, given how ubuntu already integrates non free software into the core distro i don't think its outlandish to say it would become more proprietary 17:09:22 hello hello 17:09:31 sabdfl: hello there 17:09:40 it's a shame LP is timing out right now, because I'd love to read the bug description and everything again 17:09:42 sabdfl: do you have logs or shall i pastebin? 17:09:56 thanks dpic, yes please 17:09:58 I pastebined them 17:09:59 dholbach: i can pastebin it if you like 17:10:01 http://paste.ubuntu.com/916280/ 17:10:07 pleia2: great, thanks 17:10:56 dpic, ah no, now it opened 17:11:02 this is the buf now dholbach http://paste.ubuntu.com/916281/ 17:11:10 ah, okay [= 17:11:22 i think it would be a mistake to turn bug 1 from tease to dogma 17:11:26 Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 17:11:46 and i think it would be moving the goal posts to edit it now 17:12:09 sabdfl: interesting point. 17:12:09 sabdfl, so ubuntu doesnt stand for expanding free software but was just teasing? 17:12:19 if we get too focused on it, we end up in impossible conversations 17:12:22 mog: i think that wasn't the point 17:12:24 like what the meaning of proprietary is 17:12:30 sabdfl: true 17:12:31 and mog's point 17:12:32 I've always seen bug #1 to be a bit tongue in cheek 17:12:36 Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 17:12:48 exactly, it was a tease, and frankly one i regret for being a smallminded way to start 17:13:01 we don't win by being smallminded 17:13:09 yes 17:13:11 nor do we win by being pedantic 17:13:41 and arguing about the wording of a smallminded tease sounds like the third or fourth century of a successful religion, not what we need to be now ;) 17:13:47 i think the goalposts deserve shifting, but is there a way this bug could be used for that without running into those concerns? 17:14:05 let sleeping dogs lie, is my view 17:14:10 if we close that bug, I think we can celebrate. If someone else is now dominating, well, we can always file a new bug ;) 17:14:25 if the cc feels it needs changing, fine, but i'd be happy to say 'let's focus on more meaningful discussions' 17:14:34 beuno: there will only be one (bug) #1! 17:14:52 indeed. bug 1000000 is coming up though ;) 17:14:53 Error: Launchpad bug 1000000 could not be found 17:15:00 thank you, ubottu 17:15:00 haha 17:15:07 sabdfl, then we'd better be quick :) 17:15:18 can we thank those who raised it, and move on? 17:15:37 yeah, I'm happy to leave it and look forward to closing it 17:15:43 sounds like a great idea 17:15:46 yes, same here 17:15:52 moving on 17:15:53 am happy we're even considering it needs broadening, makes it look smaller! 17:15:53 agreed 17:16:08 #topic Asia/Oceania Regional Membership Board Catch up 17:16:27 anyone here from the A/O Board? 17:16:29 I haven't gotten replies from any A/O folks about attending today, but it's the middle of the night for them 17:16:42 (3AM in Sydney, and it goes from there) 17:16:57 good, so lifeless should be awake :p 17:17:04 hah :) 17:17:07 beuno: *grin* true! 17:17:40 damn, I should've considered that when I set up the schedule :/ 17:17:45 do we have any other items to discuss ? 17:17:57 dholbach: unless you can move timezones it's not your fault :) 17:19:34 I have a quick one - when will we move over the Teams page? :) 17:20:00 #topic move over teams page 17:20:05 sooner rather than later 17:20:12 it's already better than what went before, isn't it? 17:20:17 nods it is 17:20:31 and we've merged two columns into one to create more room 17:20:35 great 17:20:47 I think we go live with it now, it'll always need tending and updates, it's fine for now 17:20:49 if people want to add their team information to it when it's up they can 17:20:54 pleia2: exactly 17:21:06 who wants to do the honours? 17:21:08 I can copy over the /temp version to live version this evening 17:21:15 thanks czajkowski :) 17:21:16 great 17:21:38 #action czajkowski to update the /teams page with working draft 17:21:38 * meetingology czajkowski to update the /teams page with working draft 17:22:21 anything else ? anyone ? 17:23:37 merged code of conduct 2.0 17:23:50 #topic merged code of conduct 2.0 17:24:30 http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/changes 17:24:43 by way of background 17:25:01 we were looking at how to build awareness of the leadership coc 17:25:11 and how to make it possible for people to sign / support that 17:25:22 as part of our general review of governance and leadership in ubuntu 17:25:42 and thought it might be better to merge the leadership value statement into the normal coc 17:25:53 on the grounds that all of us have opportunities for leadership 17:26:06 and we should be clear throughout the community what we think makes for good leadership 17:26:31 so, (amber?) set about merging them, i crunched it down a few tens of lines, and others have made suggestions 17:26:39 along the way, it made sense to integrate the diversity statement 17:26:57 and the link is where we stand with a current draft Code of Conduct 2.0 17:27:18 there is some email from the CC on it which i confess to having failed to parse and integrate 17:27:19 http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/view/head:/MergedCodeOfConduct.txt is the actual changed document 17:27:36 should we take comments and feedback here? 17:27:46 sure 17:28:58 I think it's good we've addressed peoples issues that they couldnt sign a LCoC but with it being addressed now in the CoC this helps 17:29:00 when I googled an expression used in the CoC I was pleasantly surprised to see many other communities who adopted it :) 17:30:28 There is talk of Mozilla adopting portions of the Ubuntu CoC 17:30:46 they might want to get a heads-up on this 2.0, and we could take suggestions from them 17:30:57 i tried to generalise it but.... it was difficult 17:31:01 I'm very happy with the new CoC - the only bit I think we could improve is the BDFL bit - it might need some clarification, particularly for new contributors 17:31:08 dholbach, i've tried to demystify the BDFL reference 17:31:13 sabdfl, they're aware - czajkowski and I are in conversations 17:31:16 ok 17:33:26 any further comments on the CoC V 2.0 ? 17:34:15 should we blog this 17:34:25 post to mailing lists? 17:34:37 to let people know of this change and when should we do it ? 17:35:23 i'm going to work through the CC comments now and make tweaks 17:35:36 dholbach said the latter portion felt a bit too heavy on the delegation mechanics 17:36:05 I think that was in reference to the Leadership part no? 'Their teams' ? 17:36:38 ah yes - sabdfl, you're right - I missed that when reviewing the thread again 17:38:05 while it is important to explain leaders what good leadership is and how delegation works, a casual Ubuntu contributor might feel a bit less free to jump in and pioneer in a given area 17:38:48 ... after reading a few paragraphs about delegated powers and delegated responsibilities 17:38:56 I'm not sure if this is also a concern of yours 17:41:02 * beuno re-reads 17:41:48 there are a couple of things i really wanted to convey 17:42:04 this is as much about being a leader as it is about being lead 17:42:34 i think it's important we avoid some of the post-decision carping that is toxic in other communities 17:42:40 you know the story: 17:42:53 * there is a hard decision to be taken ("Upstart vs Systemd") 17:43:02 * someone steps up to do the analysis and the work 17:43:10 * they take a decision and do a ton of work tomake it real 17:43:47 * then others who weren't around jump in and say it's all wrong 17:43:53 * so it all goes on hold for three years 17:43:57 * people resign in frustration 17:44:05 * then someone just does it that way anyway 17:44:10 let's not go there 17:44:39 totally agreed 17:44:44 so i was being forceful about the importance of getting the delegation right (top down delegation, bottom up confirmation) 17:44:54 +1 17:44:59 and the importance of letting the folk do the work they have taken on 17:45:08 recognising the occasional need to escalate 17:45:34 all of that becomes a little longwinded 17:45:39 i'll give it another spin 17:45:46 i think that covers all the feedback 17:46:03 will push a few more commits up, then am happy for blogging and feedback 17:46:15 could we identify someone to act as a central taker of feedback? 17:46:26 so we can consider, say, one wiki page of feedback rather than a long thread? 17:46:43 nods makes sense to keep the feedback in one place 17:46:50 maybe we can blog about it on the fridge and collect replies there? 17:46:51 rather than here on a ml then another chunk elsewhere 17:47:00 +1 17:47:16 ...as we don't really have a general purpose mailing list 17:47:18 sabdfl: I could collect any feedback mailed to my @ubuntu.com address 17:47:23 and put it on a wiki page for us to review 17:47:25 +1 17:47:29 perfect 17:47:38 grand job 17:47:54 yes, I'm quite happy with it as well :) 17:49:01 ok are we done folks ? 17:49:13 * dholbach is 17:49:19 * beuno too 17:50:33 right 17:50:39 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)