17:03:25 #startmeeting Ubuntu QA 17:03:25 Meeting started Wed Feb 29 17:03:25 2012 UTC. The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 17:03:25 17:03:25 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 17:03:39 can we get a roll call of who's around 17:03:54 o/ 17:05:08 could be a short meeting :/ 17:05:22 heh 17:05:24 o/ 17:05:32 o/ 17:06:00 alrighty.. well let's dive into the agenda 17:06:12 there was one outstanding item, for me to update the wiki 17:06:23 * balloons balloons to update QA Team wiki heading 17:06:31 i wanted to add an activities icon 17:06:39 I seem to only be successful at breaking the header page 17:07:50 cproffit from ubuntu-begginers helped me when I got stuck with the new lubuntu header 17:08:21 phillw, awesome, I'll consult him.. expect to see that today after the meeting 17:08:32 i picked the <3 icon for activities 17:08:33 hehe 17:08:51 [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates 17:09:12 jibel, are you around? 17:09:24 hey 17:09:41 hello :-) care to update us on ubuntu qa activities this week? 17:10:26 sure, Precise Beta 1 testing in progress 17:10:46 list of images that need testing http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/builds 17:11:18 a bunch of bugs has been found http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/defects/opened 17:11:34 major bugs with the installer and the live session are: 17:11:43 bug 940908 17:11:45 Launchpad bug 940908 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Keyboard layout not set on persistent USB image" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940908 17:11:52 bug 939450 17:11:53 Launchpad bug 939450 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "ubiquity crashed with TypeError: argument of type 'NoneType' is not iterable in ubi-partman.py" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/939450 17:11:59 bug 942560 17:12:00 Launchpad bug 942560 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "keyboard layout screen - Keyboard navigation broken" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942560 17:12:11 o/ 17:12:19 yes brendand ? 17:12:23 and bug 942030 17:12:23 http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/builds/12727/testcases 17:12:24 Launchpad bug 942030 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "'Take a photo' preview pane not showing live preview" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942030 17:12:34 http://launchpad.net/bugs/942573 17:12:35 Launchpad bug 942573 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Network connections indicator not shown" [Undecided,Fix released] 17:12:45 is in xubuntu, but marked against an ubuntu testcase?? 17:13:53 right, I saw that but didn't talk to primes2h yet 17:15:05 on the image testing side, a tester reported a hang on the keyboard layout screen on the second stage of an OEM install 17:15:49 I've been unable to reproduce, it be nice if we could have more testers to validate that if it is a local issue or not 17:16:31 jibel, can we draft some of this up into a mail for the qa list? I'll also send a tweet on status 17:16:32 apart from that, beta 1 should be released tomorrow, that's plenty of hours for more coverage 17:16:42 balloons, ok 17:16:50 thanks jibel! 17:16:53 .. 17:17:15 Alright, let's talk about flavors now 17:17:24 [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates 17:17:31 lubuntu first, how's that 17:17:37 http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/bugs/938472 17:18:05 We're all over it like a rash, this was caused by  it's a change on GTK3 3.2.1 syntax and theme standards (I'm angry because of so many changes, they won't make any standard if it goes that way) and Unico 1.0.1 (some textures changes, too). 17:18:19 Which pulled the rug from under lubuntu for a week. 17:19:05 a rough patch is hoped for today, and then all the isos will need respinning. 17:19:15 yikes 17:19:54 IMHO, it was an epic fail via QA for this to happen. We had no warning nor information. Just black screens. 17:21:13 alrighty. good luck, I'm looking at the screenshot of the issue 17:21:27 thata's no fun.. and very vague as to what could be the issue 17:21:30 so, the request is - is there any way to stop this in thre future? 17:21:30 glad you isolated it 17:21:56 our graphics guy is proud of his work and was gutted over it :( 17:22:05 :-( that's no good at all 17:22:53 I feel like the future for stopping this is doing more testing of key components before they entire the archive 17:22:59 the only other thing to note is the ppc *may* not be working on G3 macs, but until we can actually install it's hard for our few testers to test :( 17:23:20 I'll sidebar for a moment to mention this list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/DesktopCriticalPackages 17:23:27 o/ 17:23:34 sure, go ahead brendand 17:23:45 is lubuntu being iso tested? 17:23:49 in jenkins? 17:24:29 I'm not sure phillw ? jibel? 17:25:06 balloons: I know very little about jenkins 17:26:34 balloons, we test ubuntu, but the code we use for testing is available if you want to run it on your own infrastructure 17:26:35 https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server-iso-testing-dev/ubuntu-server-iso-testing/trunk 17:27:07 brendand, do you feel like having jenkins on this would have helped in this case? 17:27:14 is that the answer going forward? 17:27:53 balloons, well it looks like an integration issue to me 17:28:15 balloons, as in Gtk didn't break itself , it broke something else 17:28:45 k, let;s move this discussion to the mailing list.. phillw it looks like there may be a way to improve QA for future 17:28:57 thanks. 17:29:04 i'm sure brendand and jibel will speak more about it there 17:29:05 balloons, in this case, for ubuntu, we don't have tests that cover the rendering of the UI and similar defects are found with manual testing 17:29:30 jibel, thanks for the info. it certainly depends on what your coverage is 17:29:44 ok, how about kubuntu? 17:29:46 but the plan is to be able to do this type of test with the next testing framework we are working on 17:29:53 phillw - i have an idea to share. on the mailing list - if you can send a message to get things rolling 17:30:20 brendand: looking good for beta I think 17:30:34 we have kubuntu-active images yet but nobody has tested and almost certainly they don't do anything 17:32:07 yes.. any thoughts on getting hardware to try those out? will they be a published image for 12.04, or just ? 17:35:34 Riddell, thoughts on what will be happening with the kubuntu-active images? 17:36:07 balloons: it'll be a "tech preview" at best 17:36:16 ok, makes sens 17:36:19 if we get it going that's nice, if not then we won't worry too much 17:36:31 awesome.. anything else? 17:37:12 alrighty, let's move on to ubuntu studio.. anyone about care to update us? 17:38:53 no one about.. :-) 17:39:01 how about edubuntu? 17:40:03 lastly, any updates from xubuntu? 17:41:39 heh.. kk.. Let's move on 17:41:45 we've got alot to chat about 17:42:00 [TOPIC] Other topics 17:42:07 o/ 17:42:12 yes brendand ? 17:42:15 ok 17:42:17 manual testing 17:42:27 balloons, love what you're doing with checkbox 17:42:45 however 17:43:00 the whole story around creating test cases is really messy 17:43:12 we have a wiki, but it's not complete 17:43:21 we have a spreadsheet, i'm not sure if that's complete 17:43:28 we're looking at case conductor 17:43:41 and now you can also submit jobs to checkbox 17:44:00 (the checkbox-app-testing branch to be precise) 17:44:25 brendand, yep your correct on all those things 17:44:33 can the wiki die anytime soon? 17:44:38 the wiki is not the long-term solution 17:44:55 that was discussed last year afaik, and the decision to leave it was made then 17:45:17 if not I would propose we go ahead and formally say so now ;-) 17:45:33 balloons, yes but then as far as i can tell you're using the test cases as written on the wiki for the checkbox tests... 17:45:52 am i wrong? 17:46:02 I pulled the test cases we re-wrote as part of the spreadsheet rewrite project 17:46:05 that is correct 17:46:19 so they are *all* in the spreadsheet? 17:46:26 all the checkbox testcases? 17:46:28 not all all 17:46:33 *not at all 17:46:34 ok 17:47:05 if you look the wiki has only maybe the nautilus and network manager tests copied unedited 17:47:23 i took ideas from some of the others, but by and large, the wiki is pretty old and dead 17:47:29 can we make the wiki read-only? 17:47:40 (maybe it is already and i'm being a dum-dum) 17:47:56 no, it's still editable.. I'm not sure the wiki can or can't be readonly 17:48:02 if it can I would be ok with it 17:48:18 it can be tagged as depreciated to encourage people NOT to update it. 17:48:33 I would say we are at that point 17:48:47 as far as the future, we are still looking for a test case management system 17:49:08 in my post I outlined my thoughts about that.. i'll repeat them here, and see what you all think/feel 17:49:20 also, banners saying "THIS WIKI IS DEPRECATED - SEE " 17:49:41 brendand: we can do that :) 17:49:55 basically we need a test case mgmt system, test case delivery system and a test case reporting system 17:50:20 what happened with case conductor? 17:50:33 right now, we have the wiki more or less as the mgmt system, nothing (we're trying out checkbox now) as the delivry system, and nothing (we're trying out lp and the results tracker) for the reporting system 17:51:01 i'm biased, but checkbox is a good delivery system 17:51:14 i have been focusing my efforts recently on getting this checkbox prototype up and running 17:51:22 balloons: brendand we can chat on ML about a couple of systems the SII have tested out if it would help? 17:51:24 launchpad-results may need an extra layer over it to be generally suitable 17:51:34 and the case conductor folks have been working on pushing out the new release 17:51:39 but we will prototype that as well 17:51:56 phillw, yes that would be great 17:52:11 balloons, if we wanted to start using case conductor tomorrow, what would the risks be? 17:52:12 at this point I feel like we need a nicely intergrated workflow.. but all 3 needs must be met 17:52:24 and I'm not biased as to what tools we use 17:52:41 brendand, yes I agree results tracker if adopted would need more added to it 17:53:19 brendand, if we started using cc tomorrow, no real risks other than we have to adopt it.. and at the moment we have no way of delivering those tests outside of using the web browser 17:53:27 we may or may not like that delivery system 17:53:43 but it's still miles ahead of a spreadsheet 17:53:59 yes.. it is 17:54:05 balloons, have you found out does it have an api for pulling testcases? 17:54:12 everything in the spreadsheet is in checkbox tests now though 17:54:22 brendand, I'm not sure on the api for pulling tests 17:54:45 balloons, you've had meeting with the mozilla guys, right? 17:54:55 i wasn't attempting to muddy the waters, but I know having checkbox tests does deprecate the other places we've been putting them 17:55:17 brendand, yes I've met with the mozilla guys 17:55:44 I intend to revisit case conductor within the next couple weeks 17:55:50 probably next week 17:56:02 so 17:56:13 let's clarify all this 17:56:15 they were supposed to have a release around early march 17:56:19 i'm a contributor 17:56:37 and i'm reading your page, so i go and right a testcase in checkbox and propose a merge 17:57:02 the first thing you're going to tell me is 'can you write it up in this spreadsheet too' 17:57:04 ? 17:57:18 s/right/write/ 17:57:34 brendand, at this point I make no mention of updating a spreadsheet or wiki (nor have I attempted to myself) 17:57:46 aka, the checkbox tests are standalone 17:58:37 now, we could decide to deprecate all other tests and just go with the checkbox repo.. however I didn't want to do that, even tho short-term it means we have tests in 2 places (I was assuming the wiki would stay as-is for now as the repository of tests) 17:59:02 the long term solution is something like case conductor, which I think we all agree with 17:59:09 it's simply what do we do in the shortterm? 17:59:53 i think there should be some attempt to keep the authoritative location for test cases and the execution tool in sync 17:59:59 alright our time is expired.. I'll end the meeting.. can we continue this discussion in #ubuntu-testing? 18:00:08 sure 18:00:14 for those folks reading the logs we'll post to the ml a summary 18:00:16 kk 18:00:19 #endmeeting