#title #ubuntu-meeting: IRCC team Meeting started by AlanBell at 20:02:35 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-09-20.02.log.html . == Meeting summary == *Review last meetings action items *AlanBell to call for helpers to implement eir-like functionality in ubottu (AlanBell, 20:05:10) *meeting timeslots to be taken to the mailing list, 11:00UTC slot is in danger of being dropped (AlanBell, 20:06:09) ''ACTION:'' AlanBell to sort out fridge calendar entries (AlanBell, 20:09:18) *Open items in the IRCC tracker *Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council *bug 788503 IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric - tsimpson (AlanBell, 20:10:52) ''LINK:'' http://notes.kde.org/ubuntuguidelines (Unit193, 20:14:48) *bug 884671 Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly - jussi (AlanBell, 20:15:47) *bug 913541 there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group - AlanBell (AlanBell, 20:22:27) *bug 916247 devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention - AlanBell (AlanBell, 20:22:59) *The plan for the bots ''ACTION:'' AlanBell to mail the list asking for help to add ban timeout removal to ubottu (AlanBell, 20:38:45) *Definition of where official announcements from the IRCC will be made for those with a need for no discussion but announcements - jussi ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/IRCC (AlanBell, 20:45:57) ''LINK:'' http://blog.freenode.net/ (AlanBell, 20:52:40) *Using bots to inform users about #ubuntu-ops (and their expected behavior there) when they are banned - LjL *Concerns about using goo.gl short links in the topic/bot due to Google's privacy policy changes - LjL *Rename "probation" to "induction" in the IRC operator recruitment process - AlanBell Meeting ended at 21:22:27 UTC. == Votes == * change op recruitment terminology from "probation" to "introductory period" For: 3 Against: 0 Abstained: 0 == Action items == * AlanBell to sort out fridge calendar entries * AlanBell to mail the list asking for help to add ban timeout removal to ubottu == Action items, by person == * AlanBell ** AlanBell to sort out fridge calendar entries ** AlanBell to mail the list asking for help to add ban timeout removal to ubottu * ubottu ** AlanBell to mail the list asking for help to add ban timeout removal to ubottu == People present (lines said) == * AlanBell (127) * theadmin (57) * LjL (40) * Tm_T (37) * pangolin (32) * Pici (32) * EvilResistance (26) * meetingology (14) * jussi (11) * funkyHat (8) * oCean (8) * Myrtti (7) * ubottu (5) * Unit193 (4) * funkywhat (2) * elky (1) * niko (1) == Full Log == 20:02:35 #startmeeting 20:02:35 Meeting started Thu Feb 9 20:02:35 2012 UTC. The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 20:02:35 20:02:35 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 20:02:41 o/ 20:03:00 #meetingtopic IRCC team meeting 20:03:07 #meetingtopic IRCC team 20:03:11 o/ 20:04:12 hi all and welcome to the IRCC and team meeting 20:04:26 hi! 20:04:26 agenda is over here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda 20:04:52 and I think we can go fairly swiftly through the first section and on to some of the topics deferred from the last meeting 20:04:58 so lets start 20:05:03 #topic Review last meetings action items 20:05:10 #progress AlanBell to call for helpers to implement eir-like functionality in ubottu 20:05:41 yeah, I kind of failed to do that, however EvilResistance has just been talking about experimenting with some very relevant code 20:06:02 I will do the mail to the list this evening and we can discuss that further in an agenda item down the list 20:06:09 #progress meeting timeslots to be taken to the mailing list, 11:00UTC slot is in danger of being dropped 20:06:24 sounds good 20:06:43 we did discuss other times and picked this time for todays meeting 20:06:53 11:00 UTC isn't really a comfortable time I beleive, sounds good for me too 20:06:56 I kind of need to sort out the fridge calendar properly 20:07:14 theadmin: yeah, we tried and couldn't find *anyone* who liked that slot 20:07:35 Jussi did though 20:08:04 I am currently thinking we should have a predictable one every other sunday evening as it is now, and a less predictable one that bounces about 20:08:49 not every other Sunday, every third or fourth sunday or something 20:09:18 #action AlanBell to sort out fridge calendar entries 20:09:18 * meetingology AlanBell to sort out fridge calendar entries 20:09:44 ok, any other comments on timings? 20:09:48 yeah, meeting times could move a bit occasionally 20:10:07 #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker 20:10:19 there has been no activity to report 20:10:27 #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council 20:10:46 not much bug activity since the last meeting either, so lets whip through them fairly quick 20:10:52 #subtopic bug 788503 IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric - tsimpson 20:10:54 Launchpad bug 788503 in ubuntu-community "IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788503 20:11:32 That kind of makes sense. I think separate guidelines for -offtopic, -irc and -ops are required. 20:11:36 there is a draft that should be linked to from the bug 20:11:59 theadmin: there will be one guideline to rule them all 20:12:02 theadmin: I disagree the guidelines should be the same for all ubuntu* channels. 20:12:13 aye 20:12:14 i don't think separate guidelines are required, guidelines are guidelines, we have bot factoids for more specific things 20:12:15 I disagree, * 20:12:30 Well, either that or rule out the current guideline to be suitable for all the channels. Yeah, that sounds better. 20:12:47 someone have a link to the draft handy? 20:12:48 what is the hold up on the draft? 20:13:10 hmm, it is on a kde.pad somesuch link 20:13:42 I thought the draft was already approved and implemented :o 20:14:23 Tm_T: hasn't been changed on the wiki 20:14:43 hohum 20:14:48 http://notes.kde.org/ubuntuguidelines 20:15:01 The draft should be on the wiki in /irc/ somewhere imo. 20:15:28 thanks Unit193, I added that to the bug 20:15:38 ok, will have a look at that later 20:15:47 #subtopic bug 884671 Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly - jussi 20:15:49 Launchpad bug 884671 in ubuntu-community "Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/884671 20:16:07 * Pici makes a note to look over the guidelines document 20:16:43 recruitment is ongoing, we need to look at the other channel queues perhaps 20:16:58 That xD I'm here because I'm a wannabe op so that's of major interest for me. I'd be happy to help out really. 20:17:21 great 20:17:32 anyone know any channels in need of a call for ops? 20:17:40 i've put my name in for consideration for op on #ubuntu, so this was one of the items on the list that piqued my interest ;P 20:17:48 (for the record) 20:18:01 When? 20:18:10 Doesn't the IRCC only do calls for the core channels? 20:18:17 pangolin: yes 20:18:17 Pici: last 7 days, dont bother with putting me onto any ops list without further vetting 20:18:22 Stuff which happens on #ubuntu nowadays is annoying, too many ciao-!list-italians (nothing we can do with them though), and huge mass of spambots and trolls :( 20:18:29 Ops care about that, but not always around 20:18:51 theadmin makes a point, there have been times i've seen spam occurring, pulled !ops, and it wasnt dealt with for a significant period of time 20:19:04 generally when freenode staffers are also not around, so going to them for emegency help doesnt work 20:19:04 AlanBell: eh, we had this kind of discussion going on too? 20:19:16 Pici: just asking if there is an urgent need in any particular area 20:19:22 * Tm_T needs to follow things more closely it seems 20:19:30 AlanBell: not at this time IMO 20:19:34 I think -server probably still lacks op coverage every now and then 20:19:34 AlanBell: I know. My question was directed at EvilResistance. 20:19:47 oCean: I don't see ops calls there happening 20:20:18 Tm_T: well the general bug is about how we do recruitment, which we are in the process of doing with the #lubuntu channel and others will follow 20:20:31 An ops responsibilities are more than just answering ¡ops calls. 20:20:43 Pici: i've put my name into the queue on the launchpad site just 4 days ago, i removed it about 17 days before that after putting myself in for consideration because of several issues that occurred simultaneously in that same time period 20:20:45 AlanBell: yeah, just that it's hidden in bug report (not mailinglist) 20:20:54 anyhow, lets move on, I want to get to a bunch of the main topics 20:21:01 Pici: I aknowledge, just wondering the need (: 20:21:02 Aye 20:21:10 Hm, aye. Even though this one is important. 20:21:32 Tm_T: well it is a bug report which is discussed in every meeting, so not very well hidden 20:21:52 AlanBell: I know, I just haven't been following meetings, only mailinglist 20:21:56 (including but not limited to family issues) 20:22:01 and poorly that too 20:22:03 s/issues/emergency items/ 20:22:04 AlanBell: I think the current process is fine. IRCC makes a call, people apply, ask current ops opinions?? ,IRCC makes a decision . 20:22:11 Tm_T: the one that I post the minutes to :) 20:22:19 anyhow, lets crack on 20:22:27 #subtopic bug 913541 there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group - AlanBell 20:22:28 Launchpad bug 913541 in ubuntu-community "there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/913541 20:22:52 no further progress on this one, down to about 15 I think, we will do more on that soon 20:22:59 #subtopic bug 916247 devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention - AlanBell 20:23:00 Launchpad bug 916247 in ubuntu-community "devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/916247 20:23:27 Are we still going to move this to wiki.u.c? 20:23:34 it was cleaned up which is great, and it would be nice to migrate the content on to wiki.ubuntu.com still 20:24:16 I think that'd be a good point... I didn't even know ubottu had it's own wiki o_o 20:24:29 I think moving it is a low priority now that it has been de-spammed 20:25:56 k 20:25:56 theadmin: it only has a small number of pages http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Special:AllPages 20:26:15 ok, lets get on to the main topics now 20:26:17 In that case, merging it with the main wiki makes most sense 20:26:23 #topic The plan for the bots 20:26:25 * funkywhat grumbles. Sorry I'm late everyone 20:26:30 hi funkywhat o/ 20:26:41 ohai 20:27:22 This is a rather vauge topic. 20:27:24 so EvilResistance has some plans for eir-like ban timeout removals which is great 20:27:28 My cheap VPS picked a choice time to decide to die 20:27:31 it is a vauge topic 20:28:05 AlanBell: you should, in fact, be giving niko the credit. 20:28:25 what is the plan? 20:28:39 i started looking for eir-like bantracker and ban removal functionality about a month ago for #trekweb, my group's channel, and niko presented the ubotufr code. 20:28:51 Bundled up in it is a Channel plugin that has integrated bantracker and ban removal 20:29:05 EvilResistance: so this would replace the existing bantracker entirely? 20:29:45 LjL: its been a while since i've dug around in the current structure of #ubuntu and related channel bantrackers, but it could indeed. 20:30:03 thus far, i've tested the +q and +b tracking functionality with success 20:30:12 and confirmed autoremoval of bans does operate 20:30:14 I'll just say, keep in mind that things need to scale. #ubuntu is big, and it's possible that something that works for smaller channels does not for it... 20:30:15 I think we need something that would use the existing bantracker 20:30:30 yeah, I think so too 20:30:36 pangolin: if i might inquire, what is the current bantracker? 20:30:42 pangolin: well, the existing bantracker does have its own set of issues, and there have been previous attempts to replace it. 20:30:52 Agreed. The current one seems to work fine, though I've seen accidents (like it unbanning people ops have just banned) 20:31:05 theadmin: that's not the bantracker, that's eir 20:31:08 Oh 20:31:12 What is eir if I may ask 20:31:14 ? 20:31:19 LjL: my concern is to not lose the data we have gathered in the bantracker. 20:31:20 eir's freenode's utility bot 20:31:25 The bantracker is have is a private website that we use to keep logs of bans. 20:31:31 EvilResistance: Ah, thanks. 20:31:35 pangolin: yes, that should be migrated in case of a replacement., 20:31:37 it has bantracker functionality built in. 20:31:39 theadmin: see #defocus :P 20:31:46 its also the voice-bot there 20:31:52 EvilResistance: any new bantracker will need to have the old bans migrated into it. 20:32:18 indeed. 20:32:36 i doubt sqlite can handle that :) 20:32:42 That too, and that might be a problem depending on database structures. 20:33:37 I am mainly thinking that ubottu needs to grow some code for ban timeouts, which might well be releated to code existing in ubottufr 20:33:41 or might not 20:33:51 * Pici too 20:33:58 +1 20:34:03 I apologize for my lack of knowledge (is my first time here), but isn't ubottu mainly just a factoid bot? 20:34:05 plus there are a heap of other plugins in the ubottufr codebase which do interesting things 20:34:13 theadmin: no, not really 20:34:23 theadmin: that is the tip of a fairly substantial iceburg 20:34:30 theadmin: the user facing part of it yes. 20:34:31 theadmin: if i'm not mistaken, its also got bugtracker modules in it, amongst other supybot modules which are available 20:34:40 Ah yeah the bugtracker 20:34:43 I see 20:35:01 And the package info stuff. 20:35:07 it also nags to us 20:35:13 nagity nagity nag 20:35:15 and the floodbot integration 20:35:16 <3 20:35:43 Generally, http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins 20:35:54 Anyway, I'd personally be looking for a short term solution right now, i.e. hacking ban removal into ubottu. 20:35:57 I think the best thing would be to implement fresh code or translate some of niko's code if applicable and make it work with what we have. 20:36:08 Then replacing the bantracker would still be something to be considered (because it *is* old). 20:37:03 yup, agreed 20:37:12 ok, so some actions arising from this? 20:37:28 ask for help from the users 20:37:50 email the users list and see who is willing to hack at ubottu 20:37:58 or help hack it 20:38:20 ok. I will do that this evening 20:38:45 #action AlanBell to mail the list asking for help to add ban timeout removal to ubottu 20:38:45 * meetingology AlanBell to mail the list asking for help to add ban timeout removal to ubottu 20:38:49 include what channel and who to talk to :) 20:39:10 ubottu is python right? 20:39:10 theadmin: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) 20:39:12 in the email, right 20:39:12 * theadmin considers 20:39:18 theadmin: yes, she is 20:39:19 theadmin: ubottu's supybot if i remember right... 20:39:20 theadmin: yeah 20:39:23 Remember there is still #ubuntu-bots-team. I think even though it's little used, people who want to brainstorm *should* do it there. 20:39:48 LjL: yes, that is where I was going to say in the mail 20:40:06 ok, lets move on for now 20:40:10 forgive the ignorance, but which mailing list is the users mailing list? 20:40:16 #topic Definition of where official announcements from the IRCC will be made for those with a need for no discussion but announcements - jussi 20:40:50 ubuntu-irc@lists.ubuntu.com 20:40:50 EvilResistance: ubuntu-users@list.ubuntu.com iirc 20:40:54 ah that 20:41:15 Isn't there a news/fridge thing on the planet too? 20:41:23 well, Im here... 20:41:28 jussi: :) 20:41:29 so this item from jussi was asking where we announce things 20:41:35 jussi: \o/ 20:41:35 Pici: asking planet is a good idea also 20:41:44 Last time, someone (maybe me) was saying that those of you who blog, could agree on a "tag" to use for IRCC-related stuff... 20:42:27 personally I am kind of keen on announcing things in meetings so they are minuted, and sending to the mailing list and or news team as appropriate 20:43:08 as I said in the background, I would like to have a central place all these things are - the problem with ircc'ers individual blogs are that they change, if you were looking for all the announcements now, where would you need to go, my blog, topyli's, elkys etc etc 20:43:22 jussi: hence a tag 20:43:23 AlanBell: meetings good, but should never be that alone (: 20:43:26 A dedicated place on the wiki could be used then 20:43:32 jussi: if you're aggregated on the planet, one could search for that, no? 20:43:32 I think we can learn from freenodes successful blogging here 20:43:33 yeah, I don't think blogs are so great 20:43:36 A tag for all blog's and then a central aggregator, sure 20:44:21 in the end, best way to catch irc people is, tadaa, irc /: 20:44:28 Then again I don't blog lol 20:44:40 Tm_T: yes, which is why I like IRC meetings :) 20:44:55 AlanBell: that way there's mailing list trace too 20:45:03 Yeah IRC 20:45:06 Tm_T: but irc sucks for this kinds of stuff. its hard to parse, hard for finding old stuff 20:45:11 but nothing stops doing blogs too 20:45:15 jussi: I know 20:45:19 doesnt suit longer announcements. 20:45:22 But I do kind of agree with AlanBell, the actual/official/whatever-you-call-it place to announce things should be on the mailing list (which can come on its turn from meeting minutes), the rest being accessory. 20:45:26 Mailing lists are need, although... Say, are Ubuntu's mailing lists available as RSS feeds? 20:45:38 jussi: but you have minutes from the meetings on the mailing list 20:45:38 Planets don't keep reasonable amount of history, I don't think, so that's probably not ideal 20:45:39 jussi: don't ask how often I grep through my multigigabyte logs... 20:45:57 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/IRCC 20:47:15 I think there is a disconnect here, between "the official place to announce stuff" and "places to get announcements read and archived by lots of people" 20:47:21 irc meetings covers irc and mailinglist, people can write longer announcements to mailinglist after/before the meeting and the same message can be blogged... 20:47:34 and it isn't just announcements I think 20:48:00 AlanBell: minutes are one thing, blog posts are another. the blog posts are supposed to have the deeper explanation of what the ircc has done, and perhaps why. Its announcements, but with reason as well. 20:48:13 so things like a call for ops gets announced in a meeting, gets mailed to the list, goes to the news team 20:48:19 I don't think that there can be only one place for announcements. 20:49:29 Pici: I agree 20:49:48 jussi: are you proposing specifically that the IRCC set up a blog somewhere? 20:49:49 but there has to be one starting point, from where you then spread it further 20:50:09 The wiki makes the most sense to me. 20:50:17 AlanBell: yes, I am. making a multi user blog is minimal work. 20:50:19 Agreed. Mailing lists aren't central, blogs have the same problem to a degree... I guess if we had a central blogs/news site it would work 20:50:52 we could have one up on ubottu.com in a short time 20:51:02 I think the IRC team landing page on the wiki is the best place. 20:51:07 jussi: it is minimal work, but an empty blog is a sad sad thing, we need to know if it is something we can love and care for 20:51:45 this page Pici? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam 20:51:46 I have found more info in blogs in the past 20:51:56 AlanBell: yes, agreed. that of course is something for the ircc to decide if thwey can maintain. 20:52:17 Then again blogging usually means more or less long announcements 20:52:25 AlanBell: what Im proposing is somethign like the freenode blog 20:52:34 For something short we could probably set up a status.net setup or something... 20:52:38 I dunno even 20:52:40 http://blog.freenode.net/ 20:53:13 jussi: We know :) AlanBell tries to make a point that not all members would care for it 20:53:21 jussi: Maybe, that is 20:53:35 well we could post meeting minutes there at least 20:54:12 freenode does have a facebook/google+/twitter/identica-accounts for quick "oh noes, verne kicked the bucket" messages... 20:54:17 Im really sorry, need to go tend to the little one, I think Ive made my point though 20:54:27 thanks jussi 20:54:37 Myrtti: and wallop (so irc) 20:54:50 jussi: give a hug from me 20:54:57 so it wouldn't be much effort to set up a blog, but it is one more thing to have and maintain 20:55:10 Tm_T: if something on freenode side is broken, people don't have access to it necessarily... 20:55:16 and probably wouldn't get used massively often 20:55:23 so it has to be offsite as well 20:55:25 Myrtti: yup, thus not relying on just one 20:55:34 medium 20:56:22 gah, we need to move on, I think we need to consider this and decide next meeting 20:56:25 I think I agree with AlanBell that irc stuff should be done on irc and also with pici in backing it up with w.u.c 20:56:37 anyway, I think things should be said on irc meeting, thus mailinglist, and if there's anything worth a blog post, then do that too 20:56:40 but in this order 20:56:45 yes 20:56:47 agreed 20:56:51 Sounds great for me 20:56:57 yes 20:57:02 yup 20:57:03 ok 20:57:06 sí 20:57:17 we have consensus. 20:57:24 the Borg prevail 20:57:24 * funkyHat asplodes 20:57:27 so I think we can agree that "the definition of where official announcemnets will be made" is in an IRCC meeting 20:57:35 yes 20:57:36 Yeah :) 20:57:47 and then we communicate out from there, in routes which may or may not include a team blog at some point 20:58:23 #agreed official announcements from the IRCC will be made in IRCC meetings on IRC with minutes and articles distributed as appropriate 20:58:35 #topic Using bots to inform users about #ubuntu-ops (and their expected behavior there) when they are banned - LjL 20:58:46 yeah, lets do that :) 20:58:54 ok so my proposed announcement for the bot to give would be 20:59:07 You have been banned from #ubuntu. If you believe this ban was in error or want to appeal it, join the channel #ubuntu-ops and discuss it. Please be calm and patient and avoid being confrontational while there. Your ban will only be resolved if the operators can be convinced you can act reasonably. 20:59:15 like yes/no 20:59:26 Replace #ubuntu with $channel or something like that. 20:59:36 But otherwise looks good heh 20:59:54 sure 20:59:58 Should be in a privmsg imo 21:00:03 I would remove "Your ban will only be resolved if the operators can be convinced you can act reasonably." 21:00:10 Otherwise the user might not notice it. 21:00:19 it would certainly be in PM 21:00:22 pangolin: why? 21:00:26 theadmin: it would have to be, they have just been kicked out of the channel 21:00:38 might invite some to act as if they will follow the guidelines only to have the ban removed and continue trolling/whatever got them banned. 21:00:41 AlanBell: My point -- most clients close the window on part/kick 21:01:01 if the floodbots are going to do this, though, it will only work for #ubuntu. otherwise ubottu could do it I guess, but in that case I'm not sure I could implement it myself. 21:01:16 ah, good point 21:01:53 Hm yeah 21:02:05 I agree with pangolin, not sure how to rephrase that last part yet 21:02:18 I think it would probably be best done by ubottu (or the floodbots would have to figure out which one is doing the messaging) 21:02:31 otherwise I like the idea and we should get it started asap 21:02:39 AlanBell: that shouldn't be a problem, the floodbots already decide that among themselves with other kinds of messages 21:02:45 ok 21:03:12 The thing is, with the floodbots, I could do it within the next 10 minutes in all likelihood, with ubottu, who knows. 21:03:16 anyhow, having it in ubottu makes sense to me, could be useful for all the lubotu clones but sending to #ubuntu-irc 21:03:30 I need to step away. thanks for the good meeting folks. 21:03:49 #agreed private message from bots on ban explaining how to get to #ubuntu-ops would be a good feature 21:04:02 #topic Concerns about using goo.gl short links in the topic/bot due to Google's privacy policy changes - LjL 21:04:17 ok, for this one I believe we are all sorted LjL? 21:04:26 Are we? 21:04:39 Or can the rest of us be enlightened? 21:04:42 and yeah, we are running slightly over time 21:04:52 About this one, in case anyone missed the news, Google are changing their privacy policy, and they will aggregate all data from users among their various services. 21:05:04 I don't like us supporting that aggregation, and I would rather switch to a different shortener. 21:05:15 I've set up one on ubottu.com that could serve our purpose. 21:05:31 That sounds great, I wanted to suggest using our own as well. 21:05:52 Because that will never change rules without our approval. 21:05:54 I'd prefer something that doesn't break if ubottu.com goes down. 21:06:01 Advantages are: it has detailed statistics we can use; it can allow things like http://ubottu.com/y/gl for the Guidelines URL, i.e. our custom shortcuts 21:06:22 Pici: anything can go down, can it not? 21:06:42 Yeah that's just paranoia pici, anything goes down. Sorry, no offense but >.< 21:06:44 Pici: well if ubottu.com goes down then ubottu won't be handing out factoids with links in them 21:06:55 AlanBell: although there is still the channel topic 21:07:06 which is where most "short" links are currently found 21:07:41 yeah, it isn't a general purpose public shortening service, just for topic links and factoid contents, with links being created by any ops 21:08:10 What's the point of shortening links anyway? Most lead to pages with pretty short URLs anyway, I don't really see long ones. Then again it's good to have things like that at handy 21:08:17 But I do think when ubottu.com goes down, we have worse concerns than the links 21:08:24 like missing the bot, the bantracker and ALL THE THINGS 21:08:35 Beacuse the topic and factoids are limited by the number of characters they can be 21:08:42 theadmin: http://help.ubuntu.com/community/Blah is not very short ;) 21:08:59 LjL: Not really, much shorter than URLs I keep accidentally pasting from Google searches 21:09:07 I was tempted to get a really short URL for it by I couldn't find a nice one available 21:09:22 anyhow, lets move on as this topic is mostly resolved I think 21:09:35 #topic Rename "probation" to "induction" in the IRC operator recruitment process - AlanBell 21:09:41 Agreed, let's decide on ubottu.com shortener for that one and move on 21:09:42 what do you think of this? 21:09:54 what's in a name 21:10:07 hhmmmm... In my opinion it should be just called "testing period" :/ Neither "probation" nor "induction" make much sense to me 21:10:07 I think probation is a bit negative sounding 21:10:28 theadmin: testing? 21:10:41 Tm_T: Isn't it just that? Testing the new op? 21:10:43 well, as a speaker of not-English as a native language, I understand neither "probation" nor "induction", so no difference for me :P 21:10:43 it is more of an introductory/training period 21:10:54 probationary period makes sense too though 21:10:58 theadmin: well that would be probation 21:11:08 theadmin: we don't do any tests 21:11:12 probation makes sense but I agree it does sound somewhat negative. I would prefer induction 21:11:24 theadmin: perhaps "observation period"? if you want to get rid of the potential condescending nature of the word "probation" 21:11:34 EvilResistance: That actually sounds good 21:11:36 introduction? 21:11:40 That too 21:11:47 Actually much a wide topic xD 21:11:50 I did read induction first as introduction 21:11:52 Could call it anything 21:12:01 I do suspect it originally was intended as a period when you not only train the op, but also decide whether they're quite ready to be an op. Not sure that has ever been spelled out explicitly, but... 21:13:13 LjL: well to me "induction" emphasises training and introductory stuff, "probation" emphasises observation and testing and the possible failing to be accepted 21:13:44 when that isn't really what we want to be doing, we want people to be helped to be good ops 21:14:15 Its a hand-holding period. I think thats more that just observation. 21:14:23 yes 21:14:55 I still wish we'd use something which'd be obvious to non-native speakers *without* google translate :D 21:15:05 "induction" is not a word you hear often 21:15:18 apart from induction stoves 21:15:22 :-| 21:15:22 ^ 21:15:55 ok, it is pretty standard terminology in the UK, I don't know what it is called in other countries when you get a job 21:16:08 probation 21:16:16 AlanBell: probationary or introductory period 21:16:16 probation here atleast 21:16:56 "introductory period" sounds good to me 21:17:17 yeah, that is OK 21:17:23 yep, sounds fine 21:17:38 I'll slip to my other duties, bye all 21:17:41 Sounds good although doesn't point out the "may get rejected" part 21:18:14 yeah, I don't think we need to point that out quite so loudly :) 21:18:33 I'm sure if the situation comes to that the wording of the period will be the least of our worries. 21:18:42 in theory all of us could be demoted if we decide to act up and burn the channel with us 21:18:59 indeed, we can deal with those kind of situations, I am just seeking to use more positive language 21:19:21 Myrtti: you could indeed ;) 21:19:24 "support may be withdrawn" 21:19:32 Yeah but on the other hand, if it's clear that the possibility exists especially during that period, maybe it'll make it easier if it does happen, I don't know 21:19:36 Ok, I'm happy with introductory perido too 21:19:44 Yeah. Let's have that :) 21:19:48 ok, I think a vote is in order 21:19:59 #voters Pici AlanBell funkyHat 21:19:59 Current voters: AlanBell Pici funkyHat 21:20:29 #vote change op recruitment terminology from "probation" to "introductory period" 21:20:29 Please vote on: change op recruitment terminology from "probation" to "introductory period" 21:20:29 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 21:20:37 +1 21:20:37 +1 received from AlanBell 21:20:37 +1 21:20:37 +1 received from Pici 21:20:39 +1 21:20:41 +1 21:20:41 +1 received from funkyHat 21:20:45 #endvote 21:20:45 Voting ended on: change op recruitment terminology from "probation" to "introductory period" 21:20:45 Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 21:20:45 Motion carried 21:20:46 theadmin: you're not funkyHat! 21:20:54 AlanBell: I would not mind moving the other agenda items to next meeting.. 21:21:03 oCean: great, I was going to suggest that 21:21:05 * Pici too 21:21:14 Pici: Indeed I'm not... Sorry, didn't realize I may not cast a vote 21:21:20 oCean: I will mention them in the minutes mail so people see them before the next one 21:21:33 great 21:21:34 theadmin: don't worry its fine, the bot is clever like that and ignored you 21:21:37 theadmin: its fine :P 21:21:49 next meeting is on Sunday the something or other at 6PM 21:22:00 I've been impersonated before, and I'll be impersonated again ;) 21:22:00 thanks all o/ 21:22:12 funkyHat: it happens to all of us :P 21:22:21 Sunday 26th I think 21:22:27 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)