17:00:09 <balloons> #startmeeting
17:00:09 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jan 18 17:00:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
17:00:09 <meetingology> 
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17:00:35 <alourie> o/
17:00:45 <phillw> o/
17:00:48 <astraljava> o/
17:00:54 <balloons> so I see we have at least a few folks.. everyone ready?
17:00:59 <alourie> yep
17:01:05 <retoaded> and me too
17:01:13 <ScottK> \o
17:01:18 <balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
17:01:21 <nuclearbob> howdy
17:01:32 <balloons> ok, so there were a couple previous actions, one of which was mine :-)
17:01:43 <alourie> and one was mine :-)
17:01:52 <balloons> kubuntu and ubuntu studio are on the agenda now, so that should be good going forward
17:02:13 <balloons> alourie, how did the wiki migration go?
17:02:21 <alourie> balloons: it went fine
17:02:30 <hggdh> ~ô~
17:02:34 <alourie> since about couple of hours we have a new wiki page
17:02:44 <alourie> so everyone is invited to provide a feedback
17:02:50 <balloons> can you let us know how you did it? I know we were wondering if it was possible to copy, etc...
17:02:57 <alourie> I actually like this layout
17:03:00 <alourie> balloons: ah
17:03:46 <alourie> well, considering that you already merged a hefty part of it, it went quite fast
17:03:46 <alourie> I just copied over relevant parts
17:03:49 <albrigha> alourie: to be clear, is this the page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
17:03:56 <alourie> albrigha: yes
17:04:01 <alourie> there are still a lot of digging required for the nested stuff, I'm on it
17:04:12 <alourie> but it'll take some time, as there's a /lot/ of stuff
17:04:16 <alourie> ...
17:04:37 <albrigha> I was going to ask about that..it seemed like AutomatedTesting has a lot of info and is rather hard to get to. but sounds like you are already looking at it :)
17:04:49 <alourie> albrigha: yes, I am
17:05:22 <alourie> I am looking into all things /QA wiki/, so if anyone has ideas/suggestions/questions, fire them up to me
17:05:28 <balloons> yes, I agree.. General page cleanup is next and the more eyes on it the better
17:05:39 <gema> alourie: link AutomatedTesting in a visible place
17:05:50 <gema> I am taking care of linking all the important new stuff we do for automation there
17:06:14 <gema> thanks !
17:06:15 <gema> ..
17:06:26 <alourie> gema: there's an "Actions" link on the main page, that leads to all activities
17:06:30 <alourie> including Automation
17:06:49 <alourie> would you like Automation to be special and have a separate link on the main page?
17:06:58 <gema> I don't find the Actions link
17:07:06 <albrigha> I don't see it either
17:07:18 <balloons> i see activities
17:07:30 <alourie> sorry
17:07:34 <balloons> and it's there.. it's not a prominent link though on the main page
17:07:35 <alourie> I meant Activities
17:07:45 <gema> that may be it, yep, it needs to be on the main page not just under activities
17:07:48 <gema> imo
17:07:55 * balloons likes the beaker graphic with the cd in it
17:08:11 <alourie> balloons: for ISO testing? :-)
17:08:23 <gema> maybe a bullet point under What kinds of things does the Ubuntu QA Team do or so
17:08:41 <gema> ..
17:08:47 <alourie> gema: maybe we could bulletlist activities alltogether?
17:08:55 <gema> alourie: indeed
17:08:59 <alourie> great
17:09:01 <balloons> do we want aactivities on the top of the page next to roadmap, schedule
17:09:13 <alourie> balloons: I'm not sure
17:09:18 <albrigha> I say so..it seems like it's pretty important..
17:09:27 <alourie> testing is not the only thing we do
17:09:27 <gema> I think we should discuss this on the list
17:09:29 <gema> and move on
17:09:34 <gema> or else we won't get through :)
17:09:42 <balloons> ok, so no actions right now
17:09:47 <alourie> +1
17:09:47 <alourie> balloons: put this on my actions list
17:10:04 <balloons> [ACTION] alourie to feature AutomatedTesting wiki page prominently in wiki, based upon list discussion
17:10:04 * meetingology alourie to feature AutomatedTesting wiki page prominently in wiki, based upon list discussion
17:10:11 <alourie> thanks
17:10:21 <balloons> let's move on then
17:10:27 <alourie> great
17:10:34 <alourie> thanks for the feedback!
17:10:37 <balloons> [TOPIC] Blueprints Updates and Community Tasks
17:10:50 <balloons> alourie, your welcome.. at a glance the wiki is already nicer
17:11:24 <alourie> yep
17:11:48 <balloons> ok, does anyone have any updates on tasks to sharE?
17:11:56 <balloons> let's start with you alourie
17:12:00 <alourie> ahm
17:12:12 <alourie> ok
17:12:18 <balloons> :-)
17:12:52 <alourie> I think we need to get moving with test cases rework. I have no updates yes, but I intend to get started with rewriting. gema - is there any update on the meeting with Mozilla folks?
17:13:08 <gema> alourie: on my todo list
17:13:15 <gema> alourie: I need to talk to them this week
17:13:20 <gema> balloons: give me an action
17:13:22 <balloons> alourie, I also wanted to discuss the rework.
17:13:25 <alourie> oh, great
17:13:29 <alourie> balloons: go ahead
17:13:50 <balloons> [ACTION] gema discuss case conductor with mozilla folks and provide update
17:13:50 * meetingology gema discuss case conductor with mozilla folks and provide update
17:14:05 * txomon|nqas has arrived
17:14:18 <balloons> sure. So I wanted to make sure I understood the process for how the test cases were being reworked
17:14:25 <balloons> txomon|nqas, welcome :-)
17:14:32 <alourie> balloons: ok
17:14:43 <balloons> let me find my steps..
17:15:08 <alourie> so we have decided to rewrite them, mainly because wiki doesn't seem to be a good management tool
17:15:34 <balloons> yes.. in a nutshell, essentially using the gdoc to rewrite then place back in the wiki
17:15:41 <gema> no, we have decided to rewrite them because they were wrong
17:15:54 <gema> and we are moving to case conductor because the wiki is not a good management tool :)
17:15:56 <njin> they where old
17:16:10 <gema> njin: +1
17:16:11 <balloons> yes gema is correct there
17:16:15 <alourie> rewriting allows us to review them, fix ambiguities, update the content to a more relevant one, and remove the obsolete ones
17:16:15 <alourie> because many of them are not relevant anymore
17:16:17 <alourie> and just not clear enough
17:17:05 <balloons> so I'm up to speed on that now :-) So the next step is to get some traction going on re-writing them, reviewing them, and getting them back into the wiki
17:17:09 <njin> alourie,exact
17:17:19 <alourie> balloons: wiki, for now
17:17:33 <alourie> and CC later on (or any other system of choice)
17:17:40 * gema nods
17:17:46 <balloons> +1
17:18:03 <alourie> balloons: so action here would be getting on with it :-)
17:18:52 <balloons> yes, I will take an action to solicit some folks on the list and get some cases written for next week
17:18:52 <gema> balloons: maybe you could make it a bit easier for people by making sure we have a list of test cases that haven't been worked on yet available
17:19:07 <alourie> gema: +!
17:19:12 <alourie> that's +!
17:19:14 <alourie> +1
17:19:17 <gema> because now that we've started the whole thing got a bit messy x)
17:19:35 <balloons> I was going to focus on an app or two at a time -- what do you think?
17:19:42 <gema> sounds good to me
17:19:45 <alourie> gema, balloons: I recommend going for ISO testing actually
17:20:08 <gema> alourie: indeed, so that we are ready for alpha 2
17:20:19 <alourie> say, begin with simple desktop 386
17:20:26 <alourie> and continue from there
17:20:39 <alourie> or it is x64 now?
17:20:53 <balloons> did we go default 64-bit?
17:21:02 <alourie> I don't know
17:21:15 <gema> doesn't matter, none of them are simple by any stretch of imagination, if we are talking installs
17:21:22 <alourie> yea
17:21:31 <alourie> and they would be quite similar
17:21:38 <alourie> in terms of test cases
17:21:46 <njin> sure
17:21:58 <alourie> balloons: just pick one :-)
17:22:34 <balloons> sure, so I will take an action to review what's out there for i386 and x64
17:22:40 <alourie> yep
17:22:43 <balloons> and send to the list asking for help on rewrites
17:22:55 <hggdh> all archs are important -- and we will need people to work on PPC, ARM, etc
17:23:08 <alourie> hggdh: true, but we need to start somewhere
17:23:09 <balloons> [ACTION] balloons to review test cases for i386,x64 and coordinate updates
17:23:09 * meetingology balloons to review test cases for i386,x64 and coordinate updates
17:23:28 <balloons> hggdh, I agree, and as long as we get one arch done we can model the rest after it
17:23:34 <hggdh> indeed
17:24:01 <jibel> balloons, if you start with intel you'll need to cover mac too
17:24:17 <balloons> mac as in efi boot?
17:24:22 <balloons> or as in ppc?
17:24:29 <hggdh> mac intel
17:24:38 <jibel> yes efi. amd64
17:24:46 <gema> but the test cases are similar, aren't they?
17:24:52 <gema> are we discussing test cases or execution?
17:25:41 <jibel> if you're talking about test case there should be no difference between intel archs
17:26:07 <gema> that's what I thought, we were just talking test cases, then balloons will need to move to the execution phase
17:26:16 <gema> and help coordinate that
17:26:21 <gema> with you, probably, jibel
17:26:27 <alourie> I still say we pick one, handle its test cases, see next
17:26:37 <gema> alourie: +1
17:27:56 <balloons> ok, so yes test cases first
17:28:07 <balloons> jibel can help coordinate execution
17:28:27 <balloons> that's probably an discussion point for next week
17:28:30 <balloons> make sure we followup
17:28:55 <balloons> ok, let's move on
17:29:28 <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Derivative Updates
17:29:38 <balloons> Anyone from kubuntu on?
17:29:40 * alourie is out for few minutes
17:29:45 <ScottK> Sure.
17:29:56 <ScottK> Although Kubuntu isn't really a derivative.
17:29:56 <balloons> hello ScottK
17:30:12 <ScottK> As I mentioned last week, we've got KDE SC 4.7.4 in oneiric-proposed for testing.
17:30:19 <balloons> I never know what to call them.. spins, etc.. can someone give me the right term?
17:30:25 <ScottK> It's the last planned 4.7.x update.
17:30:32 <balloons> will 4.8 be in precise?
17:30:36 <ScottK> I prefer flavors or siblings.
17:30:37 <ScottK> Yes.
17:30:51 <ScottK> It's a 4.8 rc now and 4.8 final due out soon.
17:31:08 <ScottK> IMO something like Mint is a derivative.
17:31:26 <balloons> ScottK, noted. I'll use flavors
17:31:30 <ScottK> Thanks.
17:31:33 <jibel> balloons, flavors is good as per http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/derivatives
17:31:41 <balloons> jibel, perfect thank you
17:32:08 <balloons> how about lubuntu? phillw?
17:32:51 <phillw> fairly quiet, still working on one bug. the other bug that we shared with xubuntu re:language being altered when hitting return seems resolved
17:32:55 <ScottK> BTW, the new multitouch stack is about to land on precise and if someone has appropriate hardware it'd be great to get some testing with Qt apps.  None of the Kubuntu developers have hardware.
17:33:25 <balloons> ScottK, ohh really? I've been waiting for it to land to try out with my chromebook which has a multitouch pad
17:33:32 <phillw> but my daily buold from yesterday has just failed after install.
17:33:51 <ScottK> balloons: I understand the qt4-x11 build on armel is the last thing they are waiting for.
17:33:58 <ScottK> It takes about a day and a half to build.
17:34:15 <balloons> phillw, do you know why it failed yet?
17:34:19 <ScottK> I think this needs a touch screen though.
17:34:49 <phillw> balloons: no, It just sent my VM crazy when I 1st launched it. I've only just put it on so need to have a dig around.
17:34:59 * alourie I must leave now, sorry, will read logs later
17:35:16 * alourie thanks balloons for the chairing :-)
17:35:28 <balloons> goodbye alourie!
17:35:40 <balloons> phillw, ScottK thanks for the updates
17:35:49 <balloons> How about xubuntu?
17:36:05 <gema> charlie-tca doesn't seem to be here
17:36:12 <balloons> yep
17:36:24 <balloons> astraljava, anything on ubuntu studio?
17:36:30 <njin> unity-greeter[1589] trap int3 ip:7fec4fbe4b3b sp:7fff55e32490 error:0
17:36:51 <astraljava> Nothing much. We're picking up speed in getting our first ever live-dvd developed soon-ish.
17:36:57 <njin> phillw:^^
17:37:10 <astraljava> Other than that, it's been slow.
17:37:19 <astraljava> ..
17:37:54 <balloons> just curious, how much kernel testing does your team undertake?
17:38:05 <njin> Xubuntu today install like a charm
17:38:18 <astraljava> Somewhat, as we're going to include the -low-latency kernel.
17:38:23 <njin> in my test
17:38:35 <astraljava> But it hasn't reached the repositories yet.
17:38:38 <astraljava> ..
17:38:41 <phillw> njin: I'll wait for todays build. Mine is dated 17th.
17:38:53 <njin> I too
17:38:54 * txomon|nqas would like to ask a question at the end
17:39:21 <njin> also the build useed to report the bug is 17
17:39:23 <balloons> ok great.. thank astraljava
17:39:39 <balloons> One more update njin and txomon|nqas  :-)
17:39:47 <balloons> highvoltage, anything from edubuntu?
17:40:32 <balloons> or anyone else care to comment on edubuntu? stgraber? I know they said they were not usually around
17:40:38 <balloons> we'll move on then
17:40:47 <highvoltage> hey balloons
17:40:55 <highvoltage> ah sorry I forgot about this meeting
17:41:03 <balloons> hello :-)
17:41:12 <balloons> no worries -- anything to share?
17:41:26 <highvoltage> nothing that I have prepared now, but I'll give an update next time!
17:41:37 <balloons> sounds great
17:41:37 <highvoltage> how often does this meeting occur?
17:41:44 <txomon|nqas> weekly
17:41:45 <balloons> every weds at 1700 utc
17:41:49 <highvoltage> ok
17:41:56 <balloons> [TOPIC] Other Discussions
17:42:11 <balloons> ok, lastly anything from the list or otherwise anyone wants to bring up
17:42:16 <balloons> fire away njin
17:43:18 <balloons> txomon|nqas, how about your question?
17:43:23 <njin> just that today kubuntu and Xubuntu installs ok in every modality
17:43:34 <njin> on real hardware
17:44:02 <txomon|nqas> I have been thinking about this for a large time. I have several computers that I don't use, and that would like to use for testing, is there any app the qa has to make automated installs?
17:44:35 <txomon|nqas> I mean, automatically running tests, and sending reports
17:44:53 <balloons> njin: sweet!
17:45:13 <gema> txomon|nqas: not yet
17:45:23 <txomon|nqas> have been looking at the Orchestra project, but that is mainly focused on server deployment
17:45:34 <balloons> gema, what work would need to be done to enable such things?
17:45:50 <gema> balloons: we are working on a project that will allow people to do this at home
17:46:01 <gema> balloons: but we are barely gathering requirements at the moment
17:46:09 <txomon|nqas> gema: good to know.
17:46:10 <balloons> gotcha
17:46:17 <gema> balloons: having an orchestra server would be good for the time being
17:46:24 <gema> and I have been told it is very easy to use
17:46:30 <gema> but not everyone will be up for it
17:46:42 * txomon|nqas tryed orchestra...
17:46:48 <gema> txomon|nqas: and?
17:47:21 <txomon|nqas> puf, that was difficult to use in a home enviroment. It was very focussed on servers, and
17:47:35 <ScottK> This week I'm expecting we'll get postfix 2.8.7 into precise and then there will be post-release updates for natty and oneiric that need testing.
17:47:49 <txomon|nqas> there were lots of things not quite modularized
17:48:08 <gema> txomon|nqas: agreed
17:48:26 <txomon|nqas> I mean, the orchestra-provisioning
17:48:45 <balloons> txomon|nqas, any other thoughts on tools? certainly I would encourage you to see what you could come up with to do the automated testing, even if there wasn't a good way (yet) to feedback
17:48:45 <txomon|nqas> which is what I mainly wanted, is quite strange to my eyes (alone at least)
17:49:16 <txomon|nqas> balloons: I have been using apt-cacher-ng to cache, instead of squid
17:49:27 <txomon|nqas> and speeds up quite a lot installations
17:49:38 <txomon|nqas> easy to configure (doesn't need btw)
17:49:46 <balloons> and your mainly looking at iso installing or ?
17:50:17 <txomon|nqas> balloons: I was intending to create automatic installation systems, with kickstart files
17:50:23 <hggdh> ScottK: do we have tests available for postfix, or is it ad-hoc?
17:50:35 * hggdh wonders if the meeting lost focus
17:50:47 <balloons> just dual convo's :-)
17:51:16 <gema> hggdh: +1 :D
17:51:18 <ScottK> hggdh: I think it's ad hoc, but postfix upstream is one of the most careful and reliable there is.
17:51:56 <balloons> txomon|nqas, i would say keep us informed of your work and progress.. Gema as you can use feedback on requirements gathering let's plan to share and make sure txomon|nqas sees it
17:51:58 <hggdh> ScottK: k
17:52:09 <gema> balloons: ok
17:52:17 <txomon|nqas> I would be quite interested on that
17:53:04 <txomon|nqas> nothing more on my side
17:53:10 <balloons> scottk?
17:53:13 <txomon|nqas> will discuss this in #ubuntu-testing
17:53:31 <ScottK> No.  Nothing more.
17:53:40 <balloons> alright -- our time has come to an end then.. great meeting everyone. thanks for coming
17:53:52 <nuclearbob> thanks for chairing
17:53:53 <gema> thanks for chairing!
17:53:54 <bil21al> ok yw
17:53:57 <balloons> and for dealing with me as the chair ;-) See you all next week
17:54:14 <balloons> #endmeeting