16:02:16 <ara> #startmeeting
16:02:16 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov 28 16:02:16 2011 UTC.  The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
16:02:16 <meetingology> 
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16:02:30 <ara> Welcome to the Ubuntu Friendly Squad meeting!
16:02:37 <ara> The agenda today looks so far:
16:02:40 <ara> Ubuntu Friendly on Ubuntu variants (roadmr). I'll start discussion on this on the ML but if needed, we can hash this out on the meeting too.
16:02:41 <ara> AOB
16:02:52 <ara> only one topic
16:02:56 <ara> let's get started
16:03:08 <ara> #topic  Ubuntu Friendly on Ubuntu variants (roadmr)
16:03:11 <ara> roadmr, all yours!
16:03:20 <roadmr> OK thanks!
16:03:43 <roadmr> we've received a few bug reports and complaints, indicating that theuser experience for UF is somewhat subpar on Kubuntu (specifically) - but I guess this would apply to other Ubuntu variants.
16:04:09 <roadmr> I sent a request to the mailing list to see what people think of UF's user experience on those variants
16:04:19 <roadmr> and also to ask for some help or ideas on tasks to tackle this
16:04:31 <roadmr> to make the UF experience better on variants of Ubuntu
16:05:07 <roadmr> so other than looking at the tasks I sent to the mailing list,
16:05:20 <roadmr> the thing is that a lot of the work to make this happen will have to come from the community
16:05:32 <ara> o/
16:05:45 <roadmr> so first, if anyone has anything other than the tasks I posted on the ML it'd be nice to hear about it
16:06:12 <roadmr> also, if there are some ideas on how to engage and/or reach communities for those variants who may be interested in helping with this, that'd also be nice to discuss.
16:06:42 <roadmr> the topic on the ML has not received a lot of attention but it may be because of last week being mostly about vacation :)
16:06:47 <roadmr> so any ideas on this?
16:06:48 <roadmr> ..
16:06:55 <cr3> o/
16:07:02 <ara> OK, I go first :D
16:07:21 <roadmr> ara go
16:07:37 <ara> I think the best idea would be to send the same email (with a bit of introduction) to the kubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu mailing lists
16:07:47 <ara> to see if anyone is interested in doing that work
16:07:54 <ara> ..
16:08:32 <roadmr> that's a nice idea - also would help get more people interested in ubuntu friendly :)
16:08:35 <roadmr> cr3: your turn
16:08:37 <cr3> when we talk about the "UF experience" for Ubuntu variants, I'd just like to make sure we not only consider the client, checkbox, but also the web interface which needs to reflect a rating based on the variant which may have significant user interface implications
16:08:41 <cr3> ..
16:09:10 <ara> o/
16:09:21 <roadmr> yep, that's a valid concern, up until now we'd only been focusing on the client (i.e. can't run UF at all, help!)
16:09:36 <roadmr> however to be fair, save for some application-specific tests we're mostly testing the hardware
16:09:46 <cr3> roadmr: without a web interface counterpart, might as well just not install the client
16:09:59 <roadmr> and part of the work we want to do is ensuring we're testing the same components in the same way (i.e. even on kubuntu the audio and video tests use gstreamer)
16:10:34 <roadmr> ara: go ahead, and I'll let you chair the meeting, sorry for hijacking it :)
16:10:49 <ara> roadmr, no worries, conversation needs to flow :)
16:11:05 <ara> what I was going to say was basically what you were saying, roadmr
16:11:16 <ara> that we are testing hardware on ubuntu, basically
16:11:27 <ara> there shouldn't be a difference on the rating based on variant
16:11:32 <ara> ..
16:11:51 <brendand> o/
16:12:05 <ara> brendand, go ahead
16:13:13 <brendand> ara - are you sure about there being no difference. at least kubuntu uses a different bluetooth stack (not certain it affects hw interaction) and maybe a different network manager (i'm only like 20% sure about that one though)
16:13:15 <brendand> ..
16:13:27 <roadmr> o/
16:13:32 <ara> roadmr, your turn
16:13:46 <roadmr> brendand: I looked at a stock kubuntu install and nmcli was at least present
16:14:07 <roadmr> so part of the problem is that we know next to nothing about these variants, thus engaging their communities is a reasonable first step
16:14:33 <MrChrisDruif> Ubuntu Friendly?
16:14:34 <roadmr> it may lead to considering the variants as worthy of an entirely separate rating, as per cr3 - but the point seems to be that we won't know until we have on board some people who know them better
16:14:50 <brendand> o/
16:14:51 <roadmr> MrChrisDruif: yep, you're in the right place. Welcome!
16:14:52 <roadmr> ..
16:15:08 <ara> brendand, go ahead
16:15:13 <MrChrisDruif> I wasn't paying attention to the time
16:15:20 <brendand> Ubuntu: BlueZ
16:15:21 <MrChrisDruif> o/
16:15:25 <brendand> Kubuntu: BlueDevil
16:15:27 <brendand> ..
16:15:59 <ara> MrChrisDruif, go ahead
16:16:38 <MrChrisDruif> O, sorry I thought that was for saying your here. Please continue brendand
16:17:29 <ara> can anyone copy-paste the latest bits, please?
16:17:33 <ara> I dropped
16:17:45 <roadmr> ara: just MrChrisDruif saying hi :) you didn't miss anything
16:18:11 <roadmr> oh and brendand pointing out the bluetooth stack differences (maybe you missed that)
16:19:08 <ara> cr3, OK, so what happens right now with Non-Ubuntu results in RT? are they accepted?
16:19:35 <cr3> ara: yep
16:20:07 <roadmr> o/
16:20:12 <cr3> ara: I'm not sure where they might be reported though, it might depend on the output of lsb_release
16:20:26 <ara> roadmr, go ahead
16:21:04 <roadmr> if due to lack of some requirements (because the variant doesn't have them for instance) some UF-required tests are not run, the system will get one star on Ubuntu Friendly :( even though it may work fine
16:21:19 <roadmr> ..
16:21:45 <ara> We are just going on circles here, I think :-)
16:21:55 <roadmr> actions, actions!
16:21:57 <ara> Any concrete proposals / action items?
16:22:06 <cr3> o/
16:22:06 <MrChrisDruif> But would it be possible to install those temporarily for the tests?
16:22:46 <ara> cr3, go ahead
16:22:58 <cr3> how about this action item: someone to submit test results from kubuntu, see whether that appears as ubuntu and whether all required tests by UF are provided
16:23:02 <cr3> ..
16:23:26 <ara> I prefer that someone to be from the Kubuntu community
16:24:49 <MrChrisDruif> o/
16:24:53 <ara> MrChrisDruif, go ahead
16:25:25 <MrChrisDruif> Might be silly, but there are certain tests performed by the suite if I'm not mistaken.
16:25:43 <MrChrisDruif> Those tests require certain packages to be install to run, correct?
16:25:59 <ara> yes
16:26:45 <MrChrisDruif> Maybe silly again, but can't the suite "depend" on those packages to be installed before you can run it?
16:27:14 <MrChrisDruif> And maybe we could have separate meta-packages for the different flavors?
16:28:04 <roadmr> o/
16:28:05 <MrChrisDruif> Just an idea of course
16:28:08 <MrChrisDruif> Go ahead
16:28:13 <ara> roadmr, you go
16:28:26 <roadmr> Right now the instructions for installing and testing on Kubuntu are
16:28:41 <roadmr> open a terminal, install checkbox-gtk and gstreamer0.10-gconf, and run checkbox-gtk
16:28:58 <roadmr> those are the deps I managed to come up with, but I may be missing something
16:29:03 <roadmr> now it doesn't seem too complex,
16:29:13 <roadmr> but it would indeed be easier to "install checkbox-kubuntu"
16:29:21 <ara> o/
16:29:29 <roadmr> which would in turn depend on checkbox, checkbox-gtk, and any other checkbox deps we know not to be in kubuntu
16:29:35 <roadmr> ..
16:29:50 <roadmr> ara, go!
16:30:08 <ara> I think that this conversation just needs to engage the kubuntu community first
16:30:13 <cr3> when in doubt, add more checkboxes (or checkboxen)!
16:30:24 <bladernr_> Noooooooooo!
16:30:25 <bladernr_> ;-)
16:30:35 <cr3> checkbox-bladernr
16:30:38 * bladernr_ imagines checkboxen to be similar to tribbles
16:30:45 <brendand> o/
16:30:56 <ara> we got a lot of people from kubuntu in the uds session
16:31:06 <bladernr_> o/
16:31:09 <ara> I am sure someone will want to get involved
16:31:23 <ara> if we don't get anybody, then, why are we going to do the effort??
16:31:24 <ara> ..
16:31:27 <ara> brendand, your turn
16:31:31 <cr3> ara: +1
16:32:53 <brendand> just to say that checkbox-kubuntu isn't really an extra checkbox any more than checkbox-gtk is, so i don't think it's that big a deal
16:33:22 <brendand> let's send an email to the mailing list. if no-one volunteers, as ara says, why are we worried?
16:33:26 <brendand> ..
16:33:34 <cr3> o/
16:33:37 <ara> bladernr_, your turn
16:33:43 <bladernr_> ok...
16:34:32 <bladernr_> first, like Brendan, I agree with ara in the "if no one stands up, why worry?" area... also, I agree that we should engage the Kubuntu community for help, especially with finding out where the failures are.
16:35:18 <bladernr_> second though, what about trying to normalize checkbox a bit too... are the missing things Gnome specific, or are there cases where a test is simply dependend on a package that Ubuntu includes that Kubuntu disregards?
16:35:52 <bladernr_> perhaps we could organize a Ubuntu Friendly Hug Day with the Kubuntu crowd to help sort this out
16:35:55 <bladernr_> ..
16:36:10 <ara> o/
16:36:30 <ara> OK, so I think that the first thing to do is sending hte email, and then follow up from there
16:36:55 <ara> the email needs to be sent to both kubuntu-devel and  ubuntu-friendly-squad, to be able to follow up
16:37:06 <ara> any takers? roadmr, you brought the topic
16:37:25 <roadmr> sure I can do it :) kubuntu only, or also lubuntu and xubuntu?
16:37:38 <bladernr_> 0/
16:37:48 <bladernr_> ^^ my head apparently got bigger
16:38:29 <ara> #action roadmr to send email to the derivatives mailing lists about UF experience (and to get people involved!)
16:38:29 * meetingology roadmr to send email to the derivatives mailing lists about UF experience (and to get people involved!)
16:38:35 <ara> bladernr_, go adhea
16:38:37 <bladernr_> I'd suggest kubuntu only for now (since that's where the apparent interest is so far) and we can use whatever work we do for that as a template to enable other branches.
16:38:38 <cr3> o/ again
16:38:41 <bladernr_> ..
16:38:46 <ara> +1
16:38:50 <ara> cr3, go ahead
16:38:56 <cr3> please, if we have another package, lets not name it "kubuntu" because that would imply there should be other similarly named packages for other variants like "xubuntu" which might not be necessary, so something like checkbox-qt would make a lot more sense
16:39:01 <cr3> if we want to normalize checkbox and make it work across more variants, perhaps we should move away from specific technologies and use something more versatile like pygame even! that would work everywhere there's a graphical interface
16:39:06 <cr3> ..
16:39:37 <cr3> bladernr_: ^^^ we could have just two checkboxen, one for a graphical interface and one for the command line. that's it
16:40:44 <ara> OK, anything else on this topic?
16:41:08 <bladernr_> cr3:  yeah, I like the urwid package so far for that. it seems to work, and it's aready there
16:42:19 <cr3> bladernr_: I think we can do better than urwid for a graphical interface though, hence pygame which uses the SDL that should be supported just about anywhere
16:42:36 <ara> OK, moving on
16:42:48 <ara> you guys can take that conversation offline
16:43:09 <ara> #topic Any Other Business?
16:43:12 <cr3> ara: are you telling bladernr_ and I to get a room? :)
16:43:12 <ara> anything else?
16:43:38 <cr3> o/
16:43:40 <brendand> o/
16:44:28 <ara> cr3, go ahead
16:44:38 <cr3> Every week, there seems to be an interesting topic that comes up. I just wanted to mention that we're doing rather well in justifying the need for weekly meetings :)
16:44:42 <cr3> ..
16:45:06 <ara> +1
16:45:14 <ara> brendand, ?
16:45:28 <brendand> i guess we don't have too much more time
16:45:58 <brendand> but i wanted to say that following on from the list thread about automatically detecting the type of a system
16:46:20 <MrChrisDruif> Ow, I got something
16:46:28 <brendand> myself and roadmr established that the most sound logic for determining a systems type is:
16:47:07 <MrChrisDruif> Sorry, go on brendand
16:47:16 <brendand> check if the system has a battery. if it does not then it is most certainly a desktop
16:47:30 <brendand> that's wrong
16:47:33 <brendand> start again
16:47:48 <brendand> check if the system has a battery. if it does then it is most certainly a laptop
16:48:21 <brendand> if it doesn't then check the type with DMI. if it professes to be one of the 'laptop' types then we believe it is a laptop
16:48:31 <brendand> otherwise we believe it is a desktop
16:49:14 <cr3> brendand: this should be mentionned to the fwts to test that the DMI information is probably defined
16:49:26 <cr3> s/probably/properly/
16:49:28 <brendand> the only circumstance in which this will fail is if a laptop either has it's battery removed or undetectable AND it reports as a 'non-laptop' type
16:49:47 <ara> brendand, this needs to be followed up in the mailing list thread
16:49:51 <ara> cna you do that, please?
16:50:24 <brendand> i will of course send this out on the ml too, with a link to the branch with the script which implements that logic
16:50:28 <brendand> ..
16:50:47 <ara> cool, thanks
16:50:53 <ara> MrChrisDruif, your turn
16:51:29 <MrChrisDruif> Sure, on my mobile I noticed this meeting twice
16:51:54 <MrChrisDruif> I was checking if the fridge itself had it twice as well, because via the web it only showed once
16:52:58 <ara> and?
16:53:02 <MrChrisDruif> Hmm, it seems to be correct on the Fridge. So I'll check my own settings. That was it =)
16:53:08 <ara> cool, thanks
16:53:11 <ara> anything else?
16:53:50 * roadmr got nothing else
16:54:03 <ara> cool, I think we can wrap up, then
16:54:09 <ara> #endmeeting