14:02:35 #startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board meeting 14:02:35 Meeting started Mon Oct 24 14:02:35 2011 UTC. The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. 14:02:35 14:02:35 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 14:02:46 * bdrung thought thet the meeting would be at 19 UTC 14:02:57 #topic Review of previous action items 14:03:07 bdrung: wiki says 14UTC 14:03:28 stgraber: data corruption in my brain :) 14:03:31 #topic All members to review "social" application position statement 14:04:46 based on what I see on the mailing-list, I don't think anyone is against that statement 14:05:15 though only a limited number of DMB members answered that thread 14:06:12 http://paste.ubuntu.com/717853/ is the statement in question 14:07:13 I missed that, but it sounds good to me 14:07:27 i welcome it too. 14:07:45 Should we vote on making that official and then have it posted on the wiki so applicants are aware of it? 14:08:37 * micahg is fine with the statement as well 14:09:09 I think so, yes 14:09:13 #vote Publish position statement on "social" application to the wiki 14:09:13 Please vote on: Publish position statement on "social" application to the wiki 14:09:13 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 14:09:16 +1 14:09:16 +1 received from stgraber 14:09:20 +1 14:09:20 +1 received from bdrung 14:09:46 +1 14:09:46 +1 received from tumbleweed 14:09:56 +1 14:09:56 +1 received from micahg 14:10:03 #endvote 14:10:03 Voting ended on: Publish position statement on "social" application to the wiki 14:10:03 Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 14:10:03 Motion carried 14:10:46 #action stgraber to add the position statement on social application at the top of the agenda wiki page 14:10:46 * meetingology stgraber to add the position statement on social application at the top of the agenda wiki page 14:11:18 I think that's the best place to put it for now, may move somewhere else once we're sure everyone is aware of it ;) 14:11:52 as cody-somerville doesn't seem to be around, I'll keep his two action items in the agenda 14:12:14 #topic Continue discussion about our package set management workflows 14:13:05 we unfortunately didn't have much time at the last TB meeting to discuss this one 14:13:08 * geser waves 14:13:28 so I'd suggest we just keep it in the agenda for our next meeting 14:14:02 #topic Do we need our own IRC Channel or is #ubuntu-devel enough? 14:14:10 hey geser 14:14:18 micahg: your turn ;) 14:15:26 ok, so there seems to be a lot of people wondering about what qualifies for Developer membership and/or questions about the process, I was wondering if we should have our own channel that's on the smaller side to answer these questions 14:16:26 micahg: where are these questions currently asked? 14:16:30 how many requests do you expect? 14:16:45 all over the place (-motu, -devel, -release), sometimes nowhere 14:17:18 a central point for questions would be good 14:17:27 it's the last part that hurts as then people guess and posit sometimes incorrectly 14:18:29 i think we could give it a try 14:18:36 I'd actually prefer people to send question to the DMB mailing list or to devel-permissions and in case they actually want real time discussion, ping one of us in #ubuntu-devel. I'm already in more than 40 IRC channels and can only closely monitor a limited subset of that (which #ubuntu-devel is part of) 14:19:14 yeah, I'm not looking to be part of more channels, and this is already welcome discussion on -motu / -devel 14:19:31 I don't think there'd currently be a lack of decent replies in either of those places 14:19:33 stgraber: a smaller channel would be easier to monitor 14:19:36 I agree that having a documented single point of contact would be good, I just don't think having yet another IRC channel is the right solution to that 14:20:02 isn't the bigger problem that people don't think to ask? or are too shy to (mind you, then they don't apply) 14:20:57 yes, but having a place to hop into in ask certainly can make things easier especially when one's workflow for quick questions is already in IRC 14:21:16 bdrung: not really, I have similar low traffic channels (emea and arb) and I usually end up checking these once a week or so because I don't even remember they exist (wth is channel number 21 again?? :)) 14:21:51 * micahg rethinks his desire to switch to irssi :) 14:22:47 what about recommending one channel with a keyword for getting notified? 14:23:26 I'm also wondering if we shouldn't try to have people join #ubuntu-motu for that kind of question, this may help making people more aware of the social part of being a MOTU 14:24:04 and people in that channel usually know what to answer to these questions and most/all of us are also in that channel to answer specific questions 14:24:10 motu does tend to be more social & mentoring than universe-specific, yes. Although that's not obvious from teh name 14:24:16 motu application questions -> #ubuntu-motu and for the rest #ubuntu-devel? 14:25:28 I'm actually tempted to say, any upload permissions question => #ubuntu-motu but if you think it'd be a problem, we can probably split that between #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-motu 14:26:23 can we get something like #ubuntu-dmb forwarded to #ubuntu-motu maybe? (a /topic update would be required as well) 14:26:51 hi there 14:26:55 sorry i'm late 14:26:58 * micahg is ok with hijacking -motu for the purpose as long as it's clear to everyone 14:27:14 micahg: that works for me, and yes I think we should update the topic 14:27:25 micahg: I'm fine with that too 14:28:26 * bdrung nods. 14:28:35 micahg: can I give you an action to update the topic, get the forward setup and update the wiki to point to the IRC channel? 14:28:51 stgraber: sure 14:29:16 what topic? 14:29:26 #ubuntu-motu 14:29:44 to say what? 14:30:21 I'd prefer #ubuntu-devel as the point of contact as the persons writing the testimonials should be familiar enough with the process to answer many questions an applicant might have about the process (#ubuntu-more is more quiet this days and only a few core-devs hang there around) 14:30:27 laney: we were discussing using #ubuntu-motu to field DMB questions so we don't have to have yet another IRC channel 14:30:38 yeah, I know, I just don't know what you want to put in the topic 14:31:06 I would just put it on the wiki page that either channel is fine 14:31:35 geser: should be? yes, but historically (at least recent history), I don't think that's been the case 14:33:13 micahg: the amount of core-devs in #ubuntu-motu? 14:33:40 geser: no, testimonial writers fielding questions 14:33:41 at least one ;) 14:34:07 bdrung: at least 2 :) (see #chair) 14:34:10 i doubt it requires core-dev attention specifically, and redirecting people isn't worth the effort if there are people in -motu who can answer 14:34:13 micahg: the testimonials writers answering simple questions about the process 14:34:36 you don't need a DMB for those questions (e.g. when to apply) 14:34:47 * DMB member 14:35:35 but I don't mind if #-motu or #-devel 14:35:38 geser: indeed, I was able to answer most questions before I was a member, but still, sometimes people want an "official" answer 14:36:01 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard?action=diff&rev2=28&rev1=27 ? 14:36:04 for an official answer, the channel should probably be -devel, unless it's a DMB member answering it 14:36:23 Laney: lgtm 14:37:30 micahg: we could add a highlight on "dmb"/ "DMB" to our IRC clients to get attention from a DMB member in #-devel 14:37:46 or put !dmb into the bot 14:37:52 or that 14:38:12 Laney: +1 let's go with that for now. Adding !dmb to the bot would be a good extra too. 14:38:20 ok 14:38:24 indeed, but -devel can get noisy at times, but let's try it, if it's not working, we can do something else 14:38:59 let's try it and see how it works 14:39:03 many people leave a channel if they don't get a timely answer and having an own channel where we see the question hours after they left (bad hour of the day) then the channel doesn't help them 14:39:27 #action Laney to update the wiki to point applicants to #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-motu for questions and add a "dmb" keyword in the bot calling all the DMB members 14:39:27 * meetingology Laney to update the wiki to point applicants to #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-motu for questions and add a "dmb" keyword in the bot calling all the DMB members 14:39:31 stgraber: just a reminder, Ubuntu friendly meeting in 20 minutes and last time I ran over :) 14:39:39 geser: -motu is the better place on weekends 14:39:50 micahg: yeah, I don't plan on discussing the new package set so we should be good 14:40:12 #topic Creation of new desktop-extra package set (time permitting and if no one minds the late addition) 14:40:32 we don't really have time and I only got aware of it 5 minutes before the meeting, postponed to next meeting (Nov 7) 14:40:52 #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications - Brian Murray 14:40:55 * geser has to leave now 14:41:01 bdmurray: you're up 14:41:26 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrianMurray/CoreDevApplication 14:41:32 * bdmurray waves 14:43:06 I completely forgot to add a testimonial to that wiki page... So for the record, I've been sponsoring a few of bdmurray's uploads, mostly adding apport hooks. They all were fine and could be uploaded as-is. 14:44:00 stgraber: thanks for that 14:44:01 bdmurray: you are very experienced on specific topics (e.g. package hooks). what have you done outside your comfort zone? 14:44:51 bdrung: as a part of the patch piloting process I review and upload code other than apport package hooks. 14:45:26 bdrung: and forward those patches to debian and upstream where appropriate 14:45:51 bdmurray: something I was wondering about these apport hooks, are there plans on forwarding these in Debian/upstream to reduce the merging effort on Ubuntu's side? 14:46:11 bdmurray: do you have experience with syncing/merging from Debian? 14:47:01 stgraber: no and actually there has been some discussion about creating a different way for installing the apport hooks as SRUs for them are awkward 14:47:26 bdrung: a very little bit 14:48:13 bdmurray: that's an impressive set of endorsements 14:48:31 I was rather suprised to see no mention of uploads until the endorsements :P 14:48:49 tumbleweed: what do you mean? 14:48:54 impressive set, but they are all connected to apport hooks 14:49:03 the application mostly talks about work, not related to upload rights 14:50:26 bdmurray: do you have any inherent interests outside of apport hooks/bug related packages? 14:50:27 bdrung: I've done some work on base-files that isn't apport hook specific 14:51:39 NOTE: I'm going to allow 4 more minutes for questions, then call the vote as we're starting to run out of time 14:51:50 micahg: I'm primarily interested in the bug reporting process but I am also interested in package management, upgrades and making fixes available for stable releases via SRUs. 14:52:06 bdmurray: you say you intend to do more work updating some packages you care about. Any reason why you haven't started that yet? 14:53:19 tumbleweed: just the age old problem of time ;-) 14:53:38 * Laney notes that improving QA is a fine reason for people wanting upload rights, and would like to see it generalised to other types of QA work (piuparts springs to mind) 14:53:40 yeah, that one bites us all 14:53:54 piuparts :) 14:54:40 * tumbleweed is done with questions 14:54:45 bdmurray: do you plan to do sync or merges in the future? 14:54:45 * micahg too 14:55:10 speaking of time, it's now time to vote :) 14:55:23 bdrung: yes I am definitely interested in doing those in the future and would ask questions if I run into any issues. 14:55:36 #startvote Brian Murray application for Core Dev 14:55:41 #vote Brian Murray application for Core Dev 14:55:41 Please vote on: Brian Murray application for Core Dev 14:55:41 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 14:56:29 +1 [ Great work on apport hooks and SRUing them, hope to see even more of them in the future ] 14:56:29 +1 [ Great work on apport hooks and SRUing them, hope to see even more of them in the future ] received from stgraber 14:56:35 +1 // Who am I to overrule those testimonials? :-) 14:56:35 +1 // Who am I to overrule those testimonials? :-) received from Laney 14:57:03 +1 14:57:03 +1 received from tumbleweed 14:58:07 +1 bdmurray has a focussed knowledge about qa topics. he will not do harm when working work outside that comfort zone. 14:58:07 +1 bdmurray has a focussed knowledge about qa topics. he will not do harm when working work outside that comfort zone. received from bdrung 14:58:07 quick! 14:58:11 +0, While I think the SRUing and apport hooks are great, it all seems to be centralized in one area (aside from the sponsored patches), I'd like to see more work outside this area 14:58:11 +0, While I think the SRUing and apport hooks are great, it all seems to be centralized in one area (aside from the sponsored patches), I'd like to see more work outside this area received from micahg 14:58:14 * Laney has an AOB 14:58:21 #endvote 14:58:21 Voting ended on: Brian Murray application for Core Dev 14:58:21 Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1 14:58:21 Motion carried 14:58:39 bdmurray: congrats! 14:58:43 :-) 14:58:47 congrats bdmurray 14:58:54 Thanks everyone 14:59:01 #action stgraber to add bdmurray to the core dev team 14:59:01 * meetingology stgraber to add bdmurray to the core dev team 14:59:13 #topic Select a chair for the next meeting 14:59:25 apparently we chose to go with alphabetical order, so next up is bdrung 14:59:38 see you all in two weeks! 14:59:40 bdmurray: congrats. i wouldn't have hesitated if you had done more work outside your comfort zone 14:59:40 #endmeeting