15:02:07 #startmeeting 15:02:07 Meeting started Mon Oct 17 15:02:07 2011 UTC. The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. 15:02:07 15:02:07 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 15:02:15 Agenda: 15:02:18 Some numbers 15:02:18 What's UF site 15:02:18 "Report a problem" and unrelated reports (roadmr) 15:02:18 AOB 15:02:30 #topic Some numbers 15:02:40 I just wanted to give some numbers related to the first few days of Ubuntu Friendly: 15:02:40 * More than 350 submissions 15:02:40 * More than 100 submissions with more than 3 stars 15:02:40 * 4 submissions with 5 stars 15:02:41 * 7 models with more than 1 rater 15:02:56 I think this is a great achievement for the first week of Ubuntu Friendly Beta. Congratulations to all! 15:03:02 .. 15:03:52 nobody comments on those? no clapping? no cheering? 15:03:56 c'mon! 15:03:59 \o/ 15:04:09 *\o/* 15:04:19 \o/ 15:04:42 it's quite impressive :) and I'm glad to see 5-star models, time and more submissions will tell if these are like the "gold standard" 15:04:45 .. 15:04:45 especially good to see we're getting multiple people testing the same system 15:05:41 yes, I think we will need a lot more submissions until we start seeing more models with more than 1 rater 15:05:46 but it is good that we are seeing some :) 15:05:56 #topic What's UF site page 15:06:06 We have seen that there are a lot of people asking about the scoring system. We think that at friendly.ubuntu.com there should be a general page explaining what the programme is about and how it works. 15:06:20 We have opened this bug for it: 15:06:20 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-friendly/+bug/876314 15:06:21 Ubuntu bug 876314 in Ubuntu Friendly "We need a static page explaining a bit the programme on the site" [High,Triaged] 15:06:29 These are the things that we will include in that page: 15:06:29 * A very brief explanation of the programme, the aim of it and a link to how to participate 15:06:29 * An explanation of the scoring and that people can repeat the testing if they made a mistake 15:06:29 * How to report bugs 15:06:29 * A disclaimer that Ubuntu Friendly will be in BETA until the release of 12.04 LTS 15:06:36 Anything else? What else do you think is needed? 15:06:37 .. 15:06:42 o/ 15:07:14 roadmr, go ahead! 15:07:41 I'll be explaining a bit about the scoring system on the Open Week presentation tomorrow 15:08:00 of course only people who attend that session will get that information, and I don't really go into too much detail 15:08:08 but it may be a start. 15:08:09 .. 15:08:23 good! 15:08:42 Yes, friendly reminder that tomorrow roadmr will be giving a session about UF in the open week 15:08:47 what time roadmr? 15:09:09 it's at 16:00 UTC 15:09:29 in #ubuntu-classroom 15:09:33 .. 15:09:54 Cool, let your friends know! :) 15:10:26 Any other comments on the page? 15:11:20 OK, moving on 15:11:21 # "Report a problem" and unrelated reports (roadmr) 15:11:25 oops 15:11:32 #topic "Report a problem" and unrelated reports (roadmr) 15:11:34 much better 15:11:51 heheheh 15:12:05 so if I may 15:12:08 We like people to use UF as their first "point of contact" when looking for info about their systems, but we risk a deluge of unrelated bug reports. 15:12:20 If you're following the bug reports for UF you'll have noticed that we're getting reports for actual system problems that have little to do with UF. 15:12:31 My proposal would be to change the "report a problem" link, and turn it into a classification page. 15:13:01 o/ 15:13:33 first section would be something like "are you having problems with your system?" - pointing people to support resources (launchpad, answers, forums). 15:14:02 o/ 15:14:17 Second could be "did you find a problem with the UF website/program?" - and this is where we'd point them to us. 15:14:24 This could be a good place to put a link to the FAQ with typical questions like "what to do if I need to resubmit" or "UF says my system has 5 stars but the one I have sucks" and things like that. 15:14:46 I think this beats having to invalidate people's bugs (rightfully, mind you) because they don't have anything to do actually with UF. 15:14:49 .. 15:15:01 my turn :) 15:15:06 o/ 15:15:07 o/ 15:15:13 first of all, I think this is a very good idea 15:15:30 second, it seems that the "feedback" button can be more prominent :-) 15:15:45 we actually have a link to ask questions and give feedback about a particular system 15:15:51 http://friendly.ubuntu.com/11.10/Dell%20Inc./Inspiron%201520/I:BtuJMp:Qd:BHe:IB:BEip:E2z:BYQ:L:BEi/ 15:16:01 on the right column 15:16:11 but it seems like people are not finding it 15:16:16 .. 15:16:20 cr3, your turn 15:16:27 1. what if we enabled bug reporting by default in checkbox, would that reduce the number of bugs against ubuntu-friendly and would it improve the quality of bugs reported? 15:16:30 2. bugs shouldn't be invalidated as much as retargetted to the appropriate project where the user will probably be asked to run ubuntu-bug anyways, see poing #1 15:16:33 .. 15:17:07 brendand, you go 15:18:18 i think we should also add to the page a section on what to do if you think a test is wrong or some other problem with checkbox 15:18:38 as we're also getting reports about checkbox via the ubuntu-friendly project 15:18:56 o/ 15:19:19 not sure about enabling bug reporting by default though 15:19:20 .. 15:19:46 jedimike, your turn 15:20:18 I think there should be a link beneath the score, saying something like... 15:20:24 "not the score you expected?" 15:20:36 and linking to the explanation page 15:20:46 o/ 15:21:08 and a link saying "report a problem with the UF site", and finally one saying "I own this system and want to report a problem with it" 15:21:14 or words to those effects 15:21:21 that should get the right reports to the right places 15:21:21 .. 15:21:34 OK, my turn 15:22:19 I was just going to say that I don't think it is bad to get reports that we then redirect to checkbox trough UF. For tests that are part of UF, this is a problem that people see in UF, not the tool. 15:22:38 So I like getting those through UF, and then put them in checkbox with "also affects project" 15:22:39 .. 15:22:48 cr3, yes, sir? 15:22:51 should people be able to find their own score/submission in ubuntu-friendly? without this, "not the score you expected" would be weird because I'm not sure people have expectations across 10s or 100s of submissions 15:22:55 .. 15:23:12 o/ 15:23:47 jedimike, go ahead 15:24:28 I like the idea of people seeing the UF score that their particular submission got, with an explanation of why it got what it did. 15:24:53 We just have to get the technial RT/UF layer correct if we do that, which I'm sure me and cr3 can do 15:24:54 .. 15:25:03 o/ 15:25:17 cr3, go ahead 15:25:19 agreed with jedimike :) 15:25:19 .. 15:26:07 OK, I think that is something we should put in our wishlist for 12.04 LTS 15:26:37 who takes the action item to open a wishlist bug against UF and milestone it for Precise? 15:26:42 .. 15:27:45 anyone? 15:27:58 open a bug is not fixing a bug! :) 15:28:06 o/ 15:28:14 cool! 15:28:16 thanks brendand 15:28:31 * brendand put his hand up to talk 15:28:56 * ara brendand to open a wishlist bug and milestone it to Precise about finding someones submissions and explanation 15:29:03 #action brendand to open a wishlist bug and milestone it to Precise about finding someones submissions and explanation 15:29:03 * meetingology brendand to open a wishlist bug and milestone it to Precise about finding someones submissions and explanation 15:29:14 sorry, you take the action item as well :D 15:29:23 brendand, you wanted to say? 15:30:12 i don't mind taking the action item, but i do think this feature becomes less valuable as ubuntu-friendly becomes more stable. surely the reason for it is to find problems with the algorithm? 15:30:37 .. 15:31:05 ara: haha, you rock! 15:31:48 brendand, I think the reason is to let people know where is their submission, but yes, it might be less relevant as we go 15:32:06 hence the wishlist bug and for precise, we will see if we finally implement it or won't fix it 15:32:10 .. 15:32:19 o/ 15:32:25 I have a question for roadmr 15:32:41 yes? 15:32:45 did you know about the Feedback about this system link? 15:33:30 ara: I did :) but it seems people go into the page and the first thing they see is "report a problem" up top, and assume it's meant for "any" kind of problem. 15:34:35 then the page (or two links on the top) might be the solution 15:34:44 roadmr, anyways, we need a bug for that 15:34:52 roadmr, do you take the action to create it? 15:34:57 ara: sure, I'll do it 15:35:03 roadmr, cool, thanks 15:35:35 #action roadmr to open a bug about creating a page on report a problem to redirect to UF or feedback about the system 15:35:35 * meetingology roadmr to open a bug about creating a page on report a problem to redirect to UF or feedback about the system 15:35:55 roadmr, we will continue the discussion about the solution on the bug report 15:36:10 anything else on this topic? 15:36:50 OK, moving on 15:36:57 #topic Any Other Business? 15:37:52 it does not seems like it 15:37:59 OK, then we can wrap up 15:38:01 #endmeeting