14:03:32 <micahg> #startmeeting DMB
14:03:32 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 26 14:03:32 2011 UTC.  The chair is micahg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
14:03:32 <meetingology> 
14:03:32 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
14:03:45 <micahg> #topic Review of previous action items
14:04:11 <micahg> #subtopic Laney to start thread on ubuntu-devel about renaming UCD
14:04:21 <Laney> O_O
14:04:26 <Laney> clearly not done, sorry
14:04:35 <Laney> do people care much about this?
14:06:39 <Laney> ahem.
14:06:41 <bdrung> Laney: it would be nice to have a better name, but there was no better one proposed yet
14:06:48 <micahg> I don't think it's so bad, but I'd have to go back and look at the reason why we decided to change this in the first place
14:07:07 <Laney> I don't want a tiresome bikeshedding thread for choosing a new name
14:07:13 <bdrung> because it can be misinterpreted
14:07:35 <Laney> I said we should use Ubuntu Development Members as that's in line with other stuff but some people didn't like that (I don't remember why)
14:07:50 <bdrung> Laney: we should collect name suggestions and then discuss it here.
14:08:13 <Laney> ok i'll start it soon then
14:08:32 <micahg> Laney: thanks, carried forward then
14:08:48 <micahg> #subtopic geser to e-mail the TB with the result of the poll
14:09:00 <micahg> I believe this was done
14:09:16 <Laney> yeah
14:09:38 <micahg> #subtopic stgraber to add micahg to the mailing-list once TB has added him to the team
14:09:43 <micahg> this was done as well
14:09:57 <micahg> #subtopic jono to ask Daniel to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers to be easier to read
14:10:22 <micahg> I think that the main membership page was updated, but not the Developers page yet
14:10:52 <micahg> dholbach: is the above on your list?
14:11:49 <micahg> well, carried forward until we can find out...
14:12:01 <micahg> #subtopic cody-somerville to write some documentation on how to endorse someone
14:12:42 <micahg> carried forward as Cody's not here
14:12:59 <micahg> #subtopic stgraber to get the list of all package sets and their content somewhere online
14:13:09 <stgraber> http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/
14:13:16 <micahg> \o/
14:13:24 <micahg> thanks stgraber
14:13:29 <Laney> WOO!
14:13:31 <dholbach> micahg, add to which mailing list?
14:13:45 <micahg> dholbach: sorry, I meant on your to do list :)
14:13:51 <dholbach> I didn't have time to look into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers yet, but I'll bump the priority
14:14:11 <micahg> dholbach: were you at least asked :)
14:14:18 <Laney> can we have the team and packageset name in the reports?
14:14:23 <dholbach> Jono indeed mentioned it to me
14:14:30 <micahg> dholbach: excellent, thank you
14:14:35 <Laney> team → LP ID of uploader(s)
14:16:01 <stgraber> Laney: package set name is the filename but I'm happy to add it to the report as well
14:16:09 <Laney> cheers
14:16:27 <micahg> stgraber: I think Laney is referring to the uploaders team
14:16:31 <Laney> both
14:16:42 <micahg> ah, heh, missed the first line :)
14:16:44 <stgraber> Laney: I can expand the teams though probably won't do it recursively as it may take a while in some cases
14:17:02 <Laney> I don't care about recursively, just the top-level entries
14:17:29 <Laney> although I hope there will only be one of those ... :-)
14:18:02 <bdrung> stgraber: can you put the generation script into a bzr branch under our hood?
14:18:15 <micahg> well, top level of the teams should have multiple people hopefully
14:18:34 <stgraber> bdrung: sure, I'll do that. What project should I use?
14:18:52 <bdrung> good question. +junk?
14:19:00 <stgraber> I guess that'd be a start :)
14:20:07 <micahg> #action stgraber to publish packageset generation script so the rest of the DMB can help maintain it
14:20:07 * meetingology stgraber to publish packageset generation script so the rest of the DMB can help maintain it
14:20:32 <Laney> and get it auto deployed ;-)
14:20:44 <Laney> bzr pull && ...
14:20:49 <stgraber> yep
14:20:56 <micahg> does that need a second action?
14:21:02 <Laney> nah, I'm sure he can remember
14:21:14 <micahg> ok, anythiing else about this script?
14:21:17 <stgraber> indeed :)
14:21:25 <bdrung> rule the world ;)
14:21:51 <stgraber> updated script is running at the moment :)
14:22:13 <Laney> we should link it from somewhere
14:22:41 <stgraber> yeah, the developer membership wikipage would be a good candidate
14:22:45 <Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Ubuntu_Developers_.28from_delegated_teams.29
14:23:08 <bdrung> stgraber: Launchpad.login_with('testcase') -> better app name than testcase, please
14:23:27 <Laney> can we do code review some other time?
14:23:36 <stgraber> bdrung: looks like some copy/paste, will fix that :)
14:23:47 <stgraber> Laney: sure
14:23:51 <Laney> ty
14:23:53 <micahg> ok, yes, let's debug the script later
14:23:58 <micahg> moving on
14:24:08 <micahg> #topic Administrative Matters
14:24:24 <micahg> #subtopic Continue discussion on Ubuntu Developer Survey Report with jono
14:25:01 <Laney> I guess we should have some TB involvement?
14:25:38 <micahg> well, did we exhaust the subject ourselves or do we want a joint meeting before that?
14:26:19 <micahg> or did you have something else in mind?
14:26:40 <Laney> dunno, I just thought the idea was to have them involved
14:27:17 <Laney> didn't see any reaction on the email from them though
14:29:13 <micahg> well, perhaps we can discuss this further once the wiki gets updated to clarify the membership guidelines
14:29:32 <Laney> i suppose the main issues were dealt with
14:29:46 <micahg> right, it seems so
14:30:28 <micahg> I'll leave this on the agenda and we can discuss with jono at the next meeting
14:31:00 <micahg> #subtopic Continue discussion about our package set management workflows
14:31:16 <micahg> I think we should wait to discuss this until the end as we can easily run out the clock with it
14:31:32 <micahg> any objections?
14:32:01 <bdrung> no
14:32:02 <Laney> nah, go ahead
14:32:08 <stgraber> sounds good
14:32:14 <micahg> #topic PerPackageUploader Applications
14:32:16 <Laney> as long as we do, because I know how I think it should work :-)
14:32:57 <micahg> #subtopic cyphermox applying for PPU for usb-modeswitch*
14:33:03 <micahg> cyphermox: are you around?
14:33:07 <cyphermox> yup
14:33:29 <micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mtrudel/PPU-usbmodeswitch
14:33:43 * micahg wonders if that worked...
14:33:56 <cyphermox> IIRC you don't get ack for #link :)
14:34:01 <micahg> cyphermox: can you please introduce yourself?
14:34:07 <cyphermox> sure
14:34:56 <cyphermox> I'm a developer working for Canonical on the Ubuntu Desktop team. My "official" task is to maintain NetworkManager, but I also usually touch other things such as evolution and generally interested in the networking stack
14:35:19 <cyphermox> as such, usb-modeswitch is a clear dependency/important point, when you want to use 3G devices
14:36:12 <cyphermox> at UDS-O we discussed porting the usb-modeswitch dispatcher script from Tcl to C which is what I've done, and a big part of why I'd like to be able to upload it directly
14:36:44 <cyphermox> (just keeping up maintenance and porting changes to the upstream script to the C version)
14:36:58 <Laney> do you anticipate having to maintain this patch in Ubuntu for long?
14:37:31 <cyphermox> Laney: no. I've already spoken to the Debian maintainer and upstream author, the plan is to have both versions available from upstream
14:38:15 <bdrung> cyphermox: why both? what drawbacks does the C version have?
14:38:44 <cyphermox> bdrung: mainly the one of not being as editable by users directly; which is something upstream sees as important.
14:39:10 <bdrung> sounds plausible
14:39:35 <cyphermox> bdrung: my feeling is that it's mostly a matter of keeping it in a scripted language, I haven't really had other responses from upstream
14:39:52 <Laney> can't you close bug 679256 now? :-)
14:39:53 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 679256 in usb-modeswitch (Debian) "drop tcl/tclsh dependency" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/679256
14:40:04 <cyphermox> yes, I can ;)
14:40:20 * Laney has no real questions
14:40:26 <Laney> thanks for getting the endorsers
14:40:40 <Laney> oh, and please subscribe to bugs for -data
14:40:49 <cyphermox> oh, indeed, good point
14:41:03 <tumbleweed> cyphermox was very helpful when I ran into issues related to those packages, thiscycle
14:41:08 <tumbleweed> (drive by endorsement)
14:41:19 * bdrung has no questions.
14:41:47 <micahg> cyphermox: I'm just curious about your response to what slangasek said on your app under Areas of Improvement
14:42:39 * bdrung has only 30 mins left.
14:43:26 <cyphermox> micahg: well, it's right, it was a dumb move, not sure what else to add :)
14:44:01 <micahg> cyphermox: ok
14:44:02 <stgraber> cyphermox: wasn't that related to the PATH from within udev being broken at some point (just remembered you mentioning something like that, so thought it could be related)
14:44:48 <cyphermox> stgraber: well, it was based on the fact that it *could* be missing, but testing it proved it was available from udev when the script was called
14:45:28 <stgraber> ok
14:45:31 * stgraber is ready to vote
14:45:54 <micahg> #vote cyphermox to gain PPU for usb-modeswitch and usb-modeswitch-data
14:45:54 <meetingology> Please vote on: cyphermox to gain PPU for usb-modeswitch and usb-modeswitch-data
14:45:54 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
14:45:58 <Laney> +1
14:45:58 <meetingology> +1 received from Laney
14:46:00 <bdrung> +1
14:46:00 <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
14:46:04 <stgraber> +1
14:46:04 <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
14:46:04 <micahg> +1
14:46:04 <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
14:46:13 <micahg> cody-somerville: ?
14:47:01 <Laney> brb
14:47:09 <micahg> #endvote
14:47:09 <meetingology> Voting ended on: cyphermox to gain PPU for usb-modeswitch and usb-modeswitch-data
14:47:09 <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
14:47:09 <meetingology> Motion carried
14:47:25 <micahg> cyphermox: congratulations
14:47:30 <bdrung> congrats
14:47:38 <stgraber> cyphermox: congrats
14:47:41 <cyphermox> thanks
14:47:59 <micahg> jamespage: are you around?
14:48:08 <jamespage> yep!
14:48:15 <micahg> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
14:48:34 <micahg> #subtopic James Page
14:48:43 <micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesPage/CoreDevApplication
14:49:21 <micahg> jamespage: unfortunately, we only have 12 minutes before the next meeting, but we can see how far we get here
14:49:31 <micahg> jamespage: please introduce yourself
14:49:34 <jamespage> OK
14:50:02 <jamespage> So my name is James Page and I work for Canonical as a member of the Ubuntu Server Platform team
14:50:38 <jamespage> I have been contributing as a developer to Ubuntu for the last year; my contributions  have mainly been server related with a particular focus on Java.
14:51:00 <jamespage> I already have upload permissions for the ubuntu-server packageset (June this year)
14:52:06 <bdrung> jamespage: why do you want to become MOTU too?
14:52:08 <jamespage> having a broader set of upload permissions would really help me work more effectively - and reduce the sponsorship burden I place on others at the moment
14:52:46 <jamespage> bdrung: I would like to be recognised as MOTU as well I have a keen interest in helping ensure the quality of packages in universe
14:53:04 <jamespage> most of the Java packages I have worked on are in universe
14:53:25 <bdrung> jamespage: motu != universe. what have you done in the motu team?
14:53:35 <jamespage> and I think having MOTU membership as well as core-dev recognises this contribtuion
14:53:52 <micahg> jamespage: were you aware that core-dev membership includes membership in the MOTU team?
14:54:02 <jamespage> micahg: yes I was
14:54:35 <jamespage> bdrung: I have helped a few people on IRC (mainly pointing them in the right direction)
14:55:24 <jamespage> note sure whether its directly related to MOTU but I also ran a UDW session - helping raise awareness of the Java packaging toolset
14:56:20 <micahg> jamespage: your direct uploads appear to have ceased at the end of July, is there any reason for this?
14:58:17 <jamespage> micahg: I think that reflects that I work outside of the server packageset that I have upload access to
14:58:50 <jamespage> and the fact that eucalyptus moved out of the packageset; taking alot of java dep's with it
14:59:34 <micahg> right, but what about the stuff in the package set, what happens to it, are you still keeping an eye on those packages?
15:00:27 <micahg> or were the java packages your main focus in that packageset?
15:00:57 <jamespage> I definately have more focus on the java packages in that packageset - but its not exclusive
15:01:32 <micahg> ok, any more questions?
15:01:35 <jamespage> I have a few contributions to the packaging of openstack (nova) - but we do that through a packaging branch
15:01:48 <bdrung> micahg: no
15:01:48 <jamespage> so it not always relected in my personal upload history
15:02:33 <stgraber> I'm ready to vote
15:02:46 <micahg> Laney: anything else?
15:03:17 <Laney> got pulled away, sorry
15:03:26 <micahg> we have 2 minutes....
15:04:16 <micahg> Laney: any questions for jamespage or can we vote?
15:04:40 <Laney> my only question is social and is in regard to the MOTU application
15:04:54 <Laney> do you feel you are as involved with the MOTU community as you should be?
15:05:04 <Laney> s/you/a MOTU/ :-)
15:05:35 <jamespage> Laney: honestly - I feel I could be more involved
15:06:10 <micahg> time's up...I guess we'll take this to the mailing list
15:06:14 <Laney> thought so
15:06:18 * Daviey raises pompom's for JamesPage.
15:06:21 <Laney> I am ready to vote
15:06:26 <Laney> if you still want to do it now
15:06:42 <Daviey> micahg: If the others are ready to vote, couldn't it be achieved in meeting?
15:06:42 <micahg> #vote jamespage to become core-dev (with social MOTU membership)
15:06:42 <meetingology> Please vote on: jamespage to become core-dev (with social MOTU membership)
15:06:42 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
15:06:59 <Laney> argh
15:07:09 <Laney> you should hav edone that separately!
15:07:15 <micahg> #endvote
15:07:15 <meetingology> Voting ended on: jamespage to become core-dev (with social MOTU membership)
15:07:15 <meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
15:07:15 <meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
15:07:26 <micahg> #vote jamespage to become core-dev
15:07:26 <meetingology> Please vote on: jamespage to become core-dev
15:07:26 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
15:07:34 <bdrung> +1
15:07:34 <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
15:07:39 <stgraber> +1
15:07:39 <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
15:08:30 <Laney> +1
15:08:30 <meetingology> +1 received from Laney
15:08:45 <Laney> no qualms about quality of work, good testimonials
15:08:57 <Laney> good observations of your interactions with the release team :-)
15:09:12 <micahg> +0, I don't have any technical reservations, but just a question if there have been enough main uploads that belong outside the packageset of server (which I think is broken), I"ll have to discuss this later as I still need to do a review (tentative +1)
15:09:12 <meetingology> +0, I don't have any technical reservations, but just a question if there have been enough main uploads that belong outside the packageset of server (which I think is broken), I"ll have to discuss this later as I still need to do a review (tentative +1) received from micahg
15:09:25 <micahg> #endvote
15:09:25 <meetingology> Voting ended on: jamespage to become core-dev
15:09:25 <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
15:09:25 <meetingology> Motion carried
15:09:37 <micahg> jamespage: so core-dev tentative
15:09:44 <micahg> #vote jamespage to be MOTU
15:09:44 <meetingology> Please vote on: jamespage to be MOTU
15:09:44 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
15:09:48 <micahg> +1
15:09:48 <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
15:10:37 <micahg> bdrung: Laney: stgraber ? ara is waiting :)
15:10:58 <stgraber> +1
15:10:58 <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
15:11:05 <Laney> -1 Sorry, but I would really like to see more social involvement with the MOTU team before giving people upload rights which they technically already have. I'd really like to see you back here in a few weeks though.
15:11:05 <meetingology> -1 Sorry, but I would really like to see more social involvement with the MOTU team before giving people upload rights which they technically already have. I'd really like to see you back here in a few weeks though. received from Laney
15:11:45 <micahg> Laney: would that be a +1 w/out core-dev?
15:12:03 <micahg> bdrung: ?
15:12:05 <bdrung> +0 core-dev gives you indirect motu membership. direct motu membership has a social component. (+1 without core-dev)
15:12:05 <meetingology> +0 core-dev gives you indirect motu membership. direct motu membership has a social component. (+1 without core-dev) received from bdrung
15:12:16 <Laney> erm, probably. I'd need to think about it.
15:12:23 <micahg> #endvote
15:12:23 <meetingology> Voting ended on: jamespage to be MOTU
15:12:23 <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
15:12:23 <meetingology> Motion carried
15:12:32 <micahg> ok, we'll take that to the ML
15:12:39 <micahg> we'll decide a chair offline
15:12:42 <micahg> #endmeeting