12:30 <amjjawad> #startmeeting Ubuntu GNOME Sub-Teams
12:30 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 29 12:30:21 2015 UTC.  The chair is amjjawad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
12:30 <meetingology> 
12:30 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
12:30 <amjjawad> #topic HR Sub-Team
12:30 <amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/SubTeams#Human_Resources
12:31 <amjjawad> HR will be removed and each and every recruitment will be within each sub-team.
12:31 <amjjawad> We have agreed on that long time ago, just thought to confirm it :)
12:31 <Inoki> Agreed
12:31 <pvmatta6> Yep
12:31 <pvmatta6> Oh wait
12:31 <pvmatta6> brb
12:31 <amjjawad> #topic Packaging team
12:32 <amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/SubTeams#Packaging
12:32 <amjjawad> this team will remain as it is. It is due to upload rights, etc so this won't be touched at all.
12:32 <amjjawad> #topic Brainstorming Team
12:32 <amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/SubTeams#Brainstorming
12:32 <amjjawad> this team will be removed due to the fact that it has never ever been active, not even once.
12:33 <AuttoMatta> True.
12:33 <amjjawad> We have also agreed on that, just to confirm
12:33 <Inoki> You're advancing too fast Ali.
12:33 <amjjawad> because we have agreed on all that :)
12:33 <Inoki> Back to packaging, cant' it just be named Packaging (without the team)?
12:33 <Inoki> You know, like Packaging, Development, Marketing, PR...
12:33 <amjjawad> Inoki, as I stated before, renaming any sub-team/team within launchpad means purging the mailing list.
12:33 <Inoki> Ouch >.>
12:34 <amjjawad> Inoki, could we please focus on the function of each sub-team instead of the names?
12:34 <Inoki> Ok
12:34 <amjjawad> I care less about the names which are labels ;)
12:34 <amjjawad> I care more about the function of the team.
12:34 <amjjawad> can we move on now?
12:34 <Inoki> Yup
12:34 <AuttoMatta> Yes
12:34 <amjjawad> great
12:34 <amjjawad> #topic QA Team
12:34 <amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/SubTeams#Testing_and_Reporting_Bugs
12:34 <amjjawad> needless to say, this is untouchable team :D
12:35 <amjjawad> nothing will be done here.
12:35 <amjjawad> all good?
12:35 <AuttoMatta> Okay
12:35 <Inoki> I think Alfredo is on his way
12:35 <amjjawad> no worries
12:35 <aldomann> I'm alive and reading
12:35 <amjjawad> there will be a log ;)
12:35 <Inoki> Good
12:35 <amjjawad> Oh, here he is
12:35 <amjjawad> :D
12:35 <amjjawad> #topic Wiki and Doc Team
12:35 <amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/SubTeams#Documentation
12:36 <amjjawad> Now, this is yet another super important team. I was thinking to merge translations and Wiki in one team. Why? while Translations was part of marketing and communications team, the activities of translations were only within the scope of the wiki area.
12:37 <amjjawad> That said, I see it logical to put translations under wiki
12:37 <amjjawad> thoughts?
12:37 <AuttoMatta> I agree with you
12:37 <Inoki> I don't understand why were Translations a part of Marketing. Has nothing to do with that.
12:37 <AuttoMatta> ^
12:37 <amjjawad> Inoki, because Tim suggested that
12:37 <amjjawad> he didn't want to have 'more' sub-teams
12:37 <Inoki> *cough* we can move on
12:38 <amjjawad> hahahaha
12:38 <AuttoMatta> XD
12:38 <aldomann> yeah, as long as we only keep one main UG social media page, there's no sense in including it in marketing
12:38 <AuttoMatta> Yep
12:38 <amjjawad> translations people have no activities else where
12:38 <aldomann> also, obviously the wiki is where the translations have been active]
12:38 <amjjawad> their main activities were on the wiki
12:39 <AuttoMatta> True that
12:39 <amjjawad> #action amjjawad to merge translations under Wiki and Doc team and maybe create a new sub-team and rename the old one
12:39 * meetingology amjjawad to merge translations under Wiki and Doc team and maybe create a new sub-team and rename the old one
12:39 <amjjawad> #topic Marketing Team
12:39 <amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/SubTeams#Marketing_and_Communications
12:40 <amjjawad> Now, here is the most important part :D
12:40 <amjjawad> I was thinking a lot about the name. IMHO, the best name would be "Marketing"
12:40 <amjjawad> only
12:40 <Inoki> Yup
12:40 <AuttoMatta> Yus
12:41 <amjjawad> aldomann, ?
12:41 <amjjawad> hmm
12:41 <Inoki> I'll grab a tea, reading, don't worry. If delayed response you know why.
12:41 <amjjawad> Inoki, no worries
12:42 <amjjawad> aldomann, :) what's going on?!
12:42 <aldomann2> my laptop froze in a loop
12:42 <amjjawad> :/
12:42 <amjjawad> did you read what I sent earlier?
12:43 <amjjawad> <amjjawad> I was thinking a lot about the name. IMHO, the best name would be "Marketing"
12:43 <amjjawad> <amjjawad> only
12:43 <aldomann2> weird thing, the music was in a small loop and could move the mouse or do anything with the keyboard
12:43 <aldomann2> nah, lost between AutoMatta's "True that" and your last action
12:44 <amjjawad> aldomann2, <amjjawad> I was thinking a lot about the name. IMHO, the best name would be "Marketing"
12:44 <amjjawad> <amjjawad> only
12:44 <aldomann2> for the Wiki and Doc team?
12:44 <amjjawad> We were talking about artwork + marketing
12:44 <aldomann2> ah, all right
12:44 <aldomann2> well, the functions are the same; I don't really care about the name :)
12:45 <amjjawad> aldomann2, that's my man :D
12:46 <amjjawad> #action amjjawad to finally merge artwork + marketing and name the new team Marketing only
12:46 * meetingology amjjawad to finally merge artwork + marketing and name the new team Marketing only
12:46 <amjjawad> #topic artwork team
12:46 <amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/SubTeams#Artwork_.26_Design
12:46 <aldomann2> my only concern about changing the names is the mailing lists
12:46 <amjjawad> goodbye artwork team :P
12:46 <amjjawad> aldomann2, I'll handle that, no worries. We shall have 'new' team and 'new' mailing list.
12:46 <Inoki> idk, was there much communication before I came? Just askin'
12:46 <amjjawad> I will 'not' remove the 'old' teams nor the 'old' mailing list.
12:47 <aldomann2> okay, and we keep the old ones for archiving purposes?
12:47 <aldomann2> perfect :)
12:47 <amjjawad> I will never delete anything
12:47 <amjjawad> will keep them as they're just in case
12:47 <amjjawad> I already changed the name of artwork team
12:47 <amjjawad> #topic Translations
12:47 <amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/SubTeams#Translations
12:48 <amjjawad> as has been agreed, this will be under Wiki
12:48 <amjjawad> #topic Development
12:48 <amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/SubTeams#Developing_and_Coding
12:48 <amjjawad> this will be hidden from our Wiki area
12:48 <amjjawad> only those who are active + have experience + upload rights will be joining the dev team
12:49 <amjjawad> it's strictly for them. Not open for everyone.
12:49 <AuttoMatta> Alright.
12:49 <amjjawad> #topic Sub-Team Wiki Page
12:49 <amjjawad> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/SubTeams
12:49 <amjjawad> #action amjjawad to update the entire page to reflect the 'new' changes.
12:49 * meetingology amjjawad to update the entire page to reflect the 'new' changes.
12:49 <amjjawad> #topic Qs
12:49 <amjjawad> any Q?
12:50 <aldomann2> well, yeah
12:50 <amjjawad> aldomann2, shoot :)
12:50 <aldomann2> can you quickly name the new teams, so we can create the corresponding logos/icons for the Launchpad pages
12:50 <amjjawad> aldomann2, how about waiting for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/SubTeams to be updateD?
12:50 <amjjawad> if you need that now, sure
12:51 <aldomann2> ah, also that :P
12:51 <aldomann2> no hurry
12:51 <amjjawad> (1) Packaging Sub-Team
12:51 <amjjawad> (2) QA Sub-Team
12:51 <amjjawad> (3) Documentation Sub-Team
12:51 <amjjawad> (4) Marketing Sub-Team
12:52 <amjjawad> Ops, I forgot one
12:52 <amjjawad> (5) Human Development Sub-Team
12:52 <amjjawad> #topic NEW Sub-Team - Human Development
12:52 <AuttoMatta> Human Resources?
12:52 <AuttoMatta> Oh okay
12:52 <amjjawad> No, it's not like that
12:53 <amjjawad> recruitment will be done within each sub-team.
12:53 <aldomann2> and Brainstorming, right?
12:53 <amjjawad> The leaders of that sub-team should know whether they need more staff or not.
12:53 <amjjawad> brainstorming is gone.
12:53 <amjjawad> it will happen on the general list
12:53 <aldomann2> oh, shoot, we won't be using blueprints anymore?
12:53 <amjjawad> it's on going process that does not need a team
12:53 <amjjawad> no, we shall use that. It has nothing to do with brainstorming sub-team
12:54 <amjjawad> it's just the entry of "brainstorming" will be removed
12:54 <amjjawad> Human Development sub-team focuses on 2 main parts
12:54 <amjjawad> A- newcomers
12:54 <Inoki> Having a general brainstorming team where all the brainstorming happens for all the other teams is kind of pointless imo. Each team does its own planning.
12:54 <amjjawad> B- Excising members
12:55 <amjjawad> Inoki, indeed.
12:55 <amjjawad> In fact, the 'main' reason why I created the brainstorming team 2 years ago was to plan in advance for our project which never happen.
12:55 <aldomann2> yeah, but the thing is all blueprints are located there; we'll now use blueprints for each team instead of making them all in the Brainstorming team?
12:55 <amjjawad> We had no manpower to plan for Ubuntu+2
12:55 <amjjawad> we were almost planning for Ubuntu+1
12:56 <Inoki> idk aldomann2, I haven't witnessed much activity on those blueprints, hence my doubts.
12:56 <amjjawad> aldomann2, nothing will change. If you remember, I was assigning the blueprints to the proper team
12:56 <amjjawad> don't worry about it.
12:56 <amjjawad> Starting with next cycle, we shall use the blueprints again
12:56 <amjjawad> don't worry about that now ;)
12:57 <amjjawad> to finish the topic ..
12:57 <amjjawad> HD = Human Development will focus on (a) newcomers. (b) current members.
12:57 <aldomann2> okay, but technically the team will still exist in the shadows (at least the launchpad page), am I right? Sorry to be too insisting
12:57 <amjjawad> What will happen? those who think they're zero and know nothing, we shall empower them, inspire them and help them to get started.
12:58 <amjjawad> Also, we can help them and make them move from just members to leaders or active contributors.
12:58 <amjjawad> aldomann2, I will not delete it but it won't be used - example: its mailing list will not be used.
12:58 <Inoki> Ok, but does that really need another team? Will that team have tutors?
12:59 <Inoki> Shouldn't the tutors be members of a particular team?
12:59 <amjjawad> each new blueprint will be assigned to the sub-team that match its topic.
12:59 <amjjawad> I have something in mind for the future
12:59 <AuttoMatta> SO basically it's like a training area to learn and polish skills?
12:59 <aldomann2> amjjawad, okay, got it
12:59 <amjjawad> that's why I like to introduce HD team
12:59 <Inoki> To me, HD = HR.
12:59 <amjjawad> No.
13:00 <amjjawad> it's way different
13:00 <amjjawad> I have special skills
13:00 <amjjawad> I can empower people and inspire them in no time.
13:00 <amjjawad> I have done that so many times.
13:00 <amjjawad> Newcomers will feel super bad
13:00 <amjjawad> they usually feel they are zero. We shall make them feel like heroes.
13:00 <Inoki> But, shouldn't it be in people's own interest to cultivate their skills?
13:00 <amjjawad> we shall offer that as a help.
13:01 <amjjawad> Whoever wish to improve his/her skills, he/she is more than welcome.
13:01 <amjjawad> If no one is interested, our doors will remain open.
13:01 <Inoki> When I think of this I think of Charlie and that you now feel you need a team designated specially for newcomers like him >.>
13:01 <amjjawad> Charlie?
13:01 <aldomann2> ah, legendary Charlie
13:01 <amjjawad> hmmm
13:01 <amjjawad> the one who left?
13:02 <Inoki> Yeah, that guy, who complained how nobody babysit him.
13:02 <amjjawad> Ah
13:02 <amjjawad> well, it's even beyond
13:02 <amjjawad> not only newcomers but also current ones
13:02 <amjjawad> over a year and a half, I have worked with people who were failures.
13:02 <amjjawad> Now, they're leading the way
13:03 <amjjawad> yes, it drained my entire energy but I love the result.
13:03 <Inoki> Q: you said you wanna work with them, help them develop. Isn't that contra-productive since you have few time?
13:03 <amjjawad> I want Ubuntu GNOME to be different from other flavors
13:04 <amjjawad> I have developed new skills in the process :)
13:04 <Inoki> Not to ruin your vision Ali, but you already seem to carry a lot on your shoulders.
13:04 <amjjawad> I know
13:04 <amjjawad> but this new team won't see any action until next cycle
13:04 <amjjawad> I might find someone to drive it during that time.
13:05 <amjjawad> don't worry, I do see your point Inoki
13:05 <amjjawad> we can always revert back.
13:05 <amjjawad> it's a matter of a vote + an email to announce whether this sub-team is ok or not ok.
13:05 <Inoki> Ok, you know. Just trying to illustrate it on a good example I believe: a powerplant. It works, it powers everything, but if it gets to a point of overload it explodes, devastating everything.
13:06 <amjjawad> I see your point Inoki :D
13:06 <amjjawad> no worries
13:06 <amjjawad> I learned over the years how to be faster
13:06 <Inoki> kk
13:07 <amjjawad> #action amjjawad to double check the name of human development team
13:07 * meetingology amjjawad to double check the name of human development team
13:07 <amjjawad> Tim was against the name but I explained to him that we should focus on the function, not the name.
13:07 <amjjawad> so aldomann2 we have 5 sub-teams
13:08 <amjjawad> From 9 to 5 :)
13:08 <aldomann2> yeah, that's nice
13:08 <amjjawad> Ah, the website will be under marketing and same goes for the social media
13:08 <amjjawad> #action amjjawad makes sure to give Inoki access
13:08 * meetingology amjjawad makes sure to give Inoki access
13:08 <amjjawad> #topic others
13:08 <amjjawad> what else?
13:09 <aldomann2> Testing team? shouldn't it be listed there as well
13:10 <aldomann2> that'd make 6 subteams, right?
13:10 <amjjawad> aldomann2, QA = Testing :D
13:10 <amjjawad> No, still 5
13:10 <aldomann2> ah, true
13:10 <amjjawad> <amjjawad> (1) Packaging Sub-Team
13:10 <amjjawad> <amjjawad> (2) QA Sub-Team
13:10 <amjjawad> <amjjawad> (3) Documentation Sub-Team
13:10 <amjjawad> <amjjawad> (4) Marketing Sub-Team
13:10 <amjjawad> <amjjawad> Ops, I forgot one
13:10 <amjjawad> <amjjawad> (5) Human Development Sub-Team
13:10 <aldomann2> perfect then
13:11 <amjjawad> :D
13:11 <amjjawad> any other Q?
13:11 <Inoki> Maybe off topic, but a meeting where we would discuss the shape of the OS would be nice, i.e. to follow the promise of a "pure gnome experience"
13:11 <AuttoMatta> ^
13:12 <amjjawad> Inoki, the same topic that you guys were discussing on Telegram?
13:12 <Inoki> Kinda, to include more gnome apps instead of their alternatives
13:12 <AuttoMatta> Yes, if I am getting him correctly.
13:12 <Inoki> To consider it a Gnome OS
13:12 <amjjawad> that's need a new meeting
13:12 <Inoki> So ppl get a complete Gnome experience
13:12 <amjjawad> and Tim must be attending that one too
13:13 <Inoki> Yeah, the logo
13:13 <Inoki> what's next on that front
13:13 <amjjawad> #topic logo
13:13 <Inoki> We need a person inside Gnome to communicate with
13:14 <Inoki> That should be default since we ship Gnome
13:14 <amjjawad> as per Tim, and as we discussed over Telegram, we need to: (1) contact GNOME. (2) wait for their reply. (3) keep nagging and nagging until we get a reply.
13:14 <Inoki> It's like "we ship it, but have no relations with them"
13:14 <Inoki> We did all that
13:15 <amjjawad> then why there was no reply from their side?
13:15 <Inoki> We need a liaison of some kind
13:15 <Inoki> No idea. aldomann2?
13:16 <Inoki> I think it would be to our great benefit of having a person to act like a bridge between us and gnome. To talk everything through, latest stuff, even if it doesn't (yet) concern us. Just to stay informed and keep informend.
13:16 <aldomann2> no idea whatsoever
13:17 <Inoki> Whatever would need to be done would be done via that person, who would be the communication channel with them.
13:17 <amjjawad> Inoki, as always, the main issue is lack of manpower
13:17 <amjjawad> that said, we need someone from us.
13:17 <AuttoMatta> More like a external affairs person
13:18 <AuttoMatta> an *
13:18 <amjjawad> AuttoMatta, it is so hard to find that person.
13:18 <AuttoMatta> Exactly. Hardly anybody considers that thing.
13:18 <Inoki> Problem is we cannot function without a link like this. Now we can see, when we need to discuss stuff regarding our identity, that we cannot reach them and time's against us.
13:19 <amjjawad> Inoki, we don't need that complication. KISS (Keep It Simple and Short). That said, we just need to be nice and polite with them, that's all.
13:20 <amjjawad> We need someone from GNOME who work with them but he/she should be active.
13:20 <aldomann2> From the last reply in the e-mail (Allan Day): Thanks for keeping us in the loop, Alfredo! We're working on this ourselves - we've just got to get the legal side worked out.
13:21 <amjjawad> aldomann2, when was that?
13:21 <aldomann2> two months exactly (29th of July)
13:22 <amjjawad> O_o
13:22 <amjjawad> WHAT?
13:22 <amjjawad> then, as I suggested, we need to keep nagging and nagging :(
13:22 <amjjawad> by nagging I mean keep sending to them.
13:22 <AuttoMatta> Yes. Exactly why we need a sort of representative for permissions and stuff.
13:23 <amjjawad> But let's be nice and polite, please.
13:25 <Inoki> Having a representative with them would be nice and no nagging would be needed, but ok.
13:28 <AuttoMatta> Sometimes the label do have a certain weight on people, you see. If @aldomann2 would have introduced himself as a External Affairs Manager or some sort, he would have gotten more attention possibly.
13:28 <aldomann2> idk, I really think they are looking into it
13:28 <Inoki> Anyway, we need to get a final response and stress to them, that we are shortly before a release (!).
13:29 <AuttoMatta> ^ Yes
13:29 <aldomann2> judging from the e-mail Patrik sent us, they seem to have quite a bunch of issues with their trademark and legal stuff
13:29 <Inoki> What we think we know and what is reality are different things.
13:29 <Inoki> But with this logo we are doing them a favour.
13:29 <aldomann2> yes, that's our view
13:30 <aldomann2> but I would kinda understand if they were concerned about us usingit
13:30 <aldomann2> the problem is the following
13:30 <Inoki> Someone should get in touch with them again and this time it should be someone in Ali's position, maybe even Ali.
13:30 <aldomann2> they WERE already okay with it
13:30 <amjjawad> I don't think it is about roles and titles here.
13:31 <amjjawad> aldomann2, is already a team-leader
13:31 <amjjawad> a core member
13:31 <aldomann2> they should be okayer (pun intended) now that we have implemented all their feedback in the logo
13:31 <amjjawad> Anyway, I might send them an email from my @gnome.org
13:31 <amjjawad> aldomann2, can you please email me the name of the person to get contact with?
13:31 <Inoki> that's what I'm talking about. You're also a Ubuntu member, maybe it counts, idk.
13:32 <amjjawad> Inoki, I don't think so but no harm to try ..
13:32 <aldomann2> I'll send a new reply to the existing e-mail and include you in the CC
13:32 <Inoki> We have to, we're short on time.
13:32 <aldomann2> sounds right? amjjawad
13:32 <aldomann2> ?
13:32 <AuttoMatta> CC sounds right
13:33 <amjjawad> aldomann2, perfect ;)
13:33 <amjjawad> include both @ubuntu and @gnome :P hehe
13:33 <Inoki> Send them also the link https://www.behance.net/gallery/25233455/Ubuntu-GNOME so they can see themselves if they haven't already.
13:34 <amjjawad> #action aldomann2 to send https://www.behance.net/gallery/25233455/Ubuntu-GNOME to GNOME foundation CC amjjawad
13:34 * meetingology aldomann2 to send https://www.behance.net/gallery/25233455/Ubuntu-GNOME to GNOME foundation CC amjjawad
13:35 <aldomann2> they already have the link
13:35 <amjjawad> reminding is always good :D
13:36 <amjjawad> don't you see when I send an email, I do remind people over and over again?
13:36 <amjjawad> to re-program your unconscious mind,  you do that with repeating over and over again
13:41 <amjjawad> I must sleep
13:41 <amjjawad> anything else to discuss?
13:41 <aldomann2> nope
13:41 <Inoki> Nope
13:42 <aldomann2> anyway, e-mail sent
13:42 <amjjawad> quickly, what happened to the website? :/
13:42 <aldomann2> you should've gotten it already
13:42 <aldomann2> Gaurav has already a preview: http://demo.magikpress.com/ug/#
13:43 <aldomann2> he's trying to get the technical stuff about the hosting solved before moving on
13:43 <amjjawad> I see.
13:44 <amjjawad> #action amjjawad Inoki aldomann2 to discuss the new website later
13:44 * meetingology amjjawad Inoki aldomann2 to discuss the new website later
13:44 <amjjawad> I'll end this meeting (log). Many thanks :D
13:44 <Inoki> Gonna be on Telegram, laters, and thanks
13:45 <amjjawad> #endmeeting